If GM fails, what then?
- Thread starter warlordblee
- Start date
arkjarhead
Veteran Expediter
Your welcome. I refuse to spend my money on an inferior product. If you want me to buy American show me an American vehicle that is superior to the others and the prices are comparable. I bet you can't do it.
Was it for the better as I cannot imagine their attitude getting much worse at having to work to unload a truck?
dhalltoyo
Veteran Expediter
Lawrence I love you, but......
To date I have owned 28 new vehicles and 1 used vehicle.
1 Renault
1 Ford
7 Toyotas
20 GM
Every one of the Toyota products were delivered with ZERO defects and they never had any maintenance issues during the course of my ownership.
Everyone of the GM products, and the one Ford, all came with defects...missing bolts in the roofline of my Suburban, heads replaced on my Impala wagon, brake failures on my Chevettes, paint delamination on my pickup trucks, stamping lines in the body panels that look like creases, 6 windshield seals replaced because of leaks, 12 service calls for serpentine belt issues, a Chevy Tailgate on my GMC truck (come on...how can you miss that one?) and on, and on, and on....ad infinitum.
Just last week at 32600 miles my 2008 had a total engine replacement due to excessive crankshaft end play that damaged internal componets.
Is it any wonder why GM is not profitable?
Here is a not-so-funny that happened to me while selling Chrysler products. The much anticipated new mini vans arrived on our lot. You know, when they shifted from the bread box to the design that has now been used since 1996. Chrysler builds innovative looking vehicles, but the quality is lacking. Of course, most buyers seem more focused on the eye appeal of their new ride so that has bought Chrysler some time. Well, a family of four came in to test drive the van. I did my walk around demo and previewed all of the wonderful safety features that would make it a really great vehicle for a family with small children. The test drive went very well until we returned to the lot. As the father turned off the ignition I heard the door locks activate. No...they did not unlock, but my to my dismay...they locked us in the van! Everyone began to try their doors...not one would budge. I crawled over the back seat to see the hatch door would open. Nope! Soon I discover the mother was very claustrophobic and was beginning to panic. Oh, did I mention the windows would not open either and it was about 85 degrees outside? Here we sit...sweating and screaming. After 25 minutes a tech was able to reset the programming and extricate us.
I accept no liability for the content of this post, or for the consequences of any actions taken on the basis of the information provided. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. Any views or opinions presented in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Expediters Online. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this post. Electronic transmissions cannot be guaranteed to be secured or error-free, as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender, therefore, does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of this electronic transmission. This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work-product immunity or other legal rules.
To date I have owned 28 new vehicles and 1 used vehicle.
1 Renault
1 Ford
7 Toyotas
20 GM
Every one of the Toyota products were delivered with ZERO defects and they never had any maintenance issues during the course of my ownership.
Everyone of the GM products, and the one Ford, all came with defects...missing bolts in the roofline of my Suburban, heads replaced on my Impala wagon, brake failures on my Chevettes, paint delamination on my pickup trucks, stamping lines in the body panels that look like creases, 6 windshield seals replaced because of leaks, 12 service calls for serpentine belt issues, a Chevy Tailgate on my GMC truck (come on...how can you miss that one?) and on, and on, and on....ad infinitum.
Just last week at 32600 miles my 2008 had a total engine replacement due to excessive crankshaft end play that damaged internal componets.
Is it any wonder why GM is not profitable?
Here is a not-so-funny that happened to me while selling Chrysler products. The much anticipated new mini vans arrived on our lot. You know, when they shifted from the bread box to the design that has now been used since 1996. Chrysler builds innovative looking vehicles, but the quality is lacking. Of course, most buyers seem more focused on the eye appeal of their new ride so that has bought Chrysler some time. Well, a family of four came in to test drive the van. I did my walk around demo and previewed all of the wonderful safety features that would make it a really great vehicle for a family with small children. The test drive went very well until we returned to the lot. As the father turned off the ignition I heard the door locks activate. No...they did not unlock, but my to my dismay...they locked us in the van! Everyone began to try their doors...not one would budge. I crawled over the back seat to see the hatch door would open. Nope! Soon I discover the mother was very claustrophobic and was beginning to panic. Oh, did I mention the windows would not open either and it was about 85 degrees outside? Here we sit...sweating and screaming. After 25 minutes a tech was able to reset the programming and extricate us.
I accept no liability for the content of this post, or for the consequences of any actions taken on the basis of the information provided. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. Any views or opinions presented in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Expediters Online. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this post. Electronic transmissions cannot be guaranteed to be secured or error-free, as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender, therefore, does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of this electronic transmission. This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise protected by work-product immunity or other legal rules.
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Scuba
Veteran Expediter
If you want to thank anyone thank the unions and poor mangament. How many times have you been delayed at gm ford or chrysler. And how often are you delayed at toyota, honda,etc. I can count the number of times i have picked up a load from the big three when they said it would be ready. How many times have you sat at one of the big 3 trying to deliver a load because it was 30 mins to lunch and the forklift driver didn't want to unload your 3 or 4 skids before he went on break, he did have a news paper he needed to finnish anyway. If they go under its not because someone bought a honda its because those workers dont give a rats butt about work. They killed their own job and they arent building cars that people want who's fault is that. When you build junk people will buy elseware.
jwgmover
Expert Expediter
How does being delayed at a Shipper / Receiver equal junk cars,
I personally have purchased over 15 New vehicles from the Big 3 in the past several years. Most have been traded in with 50,000 to 60,000 miles with little or no problems.
Wake up foreign car buyers, where are the profits from these cars being spent? In our county? I think not.
Just my 2 penny's worth, I'll go back to playing with my American made bikes.
ClassicOne
Expert Expediter
Let them fail. It doesn't make any difference what kind of business it is, or where it is located. All three are multinational companies that had record profits just a few years ago. There has been numerous times these companies could have responded to American consumers wants and desires. Their only response was "buy American". I guess the American consumers have decided to buy what they desire, no matter where it is designed and built, and profits or losses retained.
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In response to OVMs question. The euro and asian ops are quite independant units with separate management teams free from most of GMs influence. Some will probably be sold off and others will (if gm folds) become independant. GM just sold off it's ownership in Suzuki but still has interest in the Daewoo ops with Suzuki and also the canadian cami plant in Ingersoll. Ford has sold a lot of its mazda ownership but is retaining a working relationship. Again overseas operations will either go to other companies or go independant. Chryslers overseas ops are not in such great condition and will either fold or be absorbed by competitor. But of course except for the recent moves to sell off ownership in some foreign companies the rest is normal industry expectations and rumour.
Will the folding of any of the big 3 hurt others, yes by far as so many suppliers are involved. But some will be able to shift to other companies and some will have to find another line of products or fold as well.
The two vehicles that cost me the least over a lot of miles are the last gm van i ran and my second vw van. The gm had 500,000 on it when sold and the vw had 400,000 (miles).
Now the only toyota i owned had a defect from the factory and toyota would not fix it. I had it for over 8 years but it went thru 2 sets of wheel bearings under warranty (back then a lot shorter than todays warranties) and it went thru 7 sets over the years. it also had a problem with the thermostats sticking after 2 years and it always cost a head replacement so 3 heads plus gaskets and thermostat. Not the same mileage and no warning.
Rob
Will the folding of any of the big 3 hurt others, yes by far as so many suppliers are involved. But some will be able to shift to other companies and some will have to find another line of products or fold as well.
The two vehicles that cost me the least over a lot of miles are the last gm van i ran and my second vw van. The gm had 500,000 on it when sold and the vw had 400,000 (miles).
Now the only toyota i owned had a defect from the factory and toyota would not fix it. I had it for over 8 years but it went thru 2 sets of wheel bearings under warranty (back then a lot shorter than todays warranties) and it went thru 7 sets over the years. it also had a problem with the thermostats sticking after 2 years and it always cost a head replacement so 3 heads plus gaskets and thermostat. Not the same mileage and no warning.
Rob
Jack_Berry
Moderator Emeritus
david i am curious about the engine failure. ws it replaced at the purchased dealer or were you on the road?
The big 3 use National Logistics and want their parts hauled for next to nothing. It's gotten to the point where automotive freight reates have gone down so low that it is very hard to turn a profit. Maybe the big three should start taking care of their vendors a little bit better, because "karma is a bich" and their chickens have come home to roost.
One of the reasons Japanese cars are thought of as better is the Press they receive. Back in 1991 it was either Motor Craft or Car & Driver was doing their yearly comparison of Automobiles. Ford made a two door Explorer for Mazda. When the two were compared side by side the Auto magazine chose the Mazda as being a better made car over the Ford Explorer.
It is my personal belief that when someone buys a Lexus or other high end Foreign Vehicle, they will smile and say "I love it" before they will admit it has problems.
It is my personal belief that when someone buys a Lexus or other high end Foreign Vehicle, they will smile and say "I love it" before they will admit it has problems.
The big 3 use National Logistics and want their parts hauled for next to nothing. It's gotten to the point where automotive freight reates have gone down so low that it is very hard to turn a profit. Maybe the big three should start taking care of their vendors a little bit better, because "karma is a bich" and their chickens have come home to roost.
I don;t know why the Alliance of carriers don't tell NLM to go fly a kite....
Black Sheep
Expert Expediter
The Alliance now includes a whole lot of mom & pop carriers that have only a handfull of trucks and will run for next to nothing just to keep the wheels turning. They help drive down the prices in the market and accomodate logistics companies like NLM that auction the shipments online. The major carriers also use NLM to reposition trucks into the midwest in spite of the lowball rates. The way to change this is for the major carriers to turn down NLM freight - if NLM were left with the one-horse outfits as their only source, the rates would soon be forced back up. However, that's not going to happen is this economic climate.
Regarding the collapse of one of the Big Three: it would probably be a good thing in the long run. If one of them declares Chap. 11 it gives them the opportunity to break the UAW contracts, and that's what they will have to do if they intend to be competitive in today's industry. The airline industry has already set this precedent; Chap. 11 bankruptcy doesn't mean they close their doors, it means they can restructure under court supervision.
Regarding the collapse of one of the Big Three: it would probably be a good thing in the long run. If one of them declares Chap. 11 it gives them the opportunity to break the UAW contracts, and that's what they will have to do if they intend to be competitive in today's industry. The airline industry has already set this precedent; Chap. 11 bankruptcy doesn't mean they close their doors, it means they can restructure under court supervision.
warlordblee
Seasoned Expediter
It's acutally 1 in 10 jobs related to the big 3 Chrysler GM and Ford.
Your source?
That's not the case at all. It's a fully fabricated number pulled from the behinds of those geniuses in the UAW. If you'd really think hard about that 10% hoax, the sheer numbers should be a strong indication of just how ridiculas it is.
Here is something you should read 1st.
How Many Jobs Depend on the Big Three?
By Catherine Rampell
“The auto industry supports one of every 10 jobs in the United States,” Gov. Jennifer M. Granholm of Michigan wrote in a CNN.com plea for a bailout of Detroit’s Big Three. The day before, she told “The Early Show” on CBS that “this industry supports one in 10 jobs in the country,” adding, “If this industry is allowed to fail, there will be a ripple effect throughout the nation.” Many others have used the same statistic.
That’s a scary figure. It’s also somewhat misleading.
The statistic seems to indicate that 10 percent of American jobs – a total of roughly 14 million jobs, if you’re just looking at the Bureau of Labor Statistics non-farm payroll report – could evaporate if the Detroit Three are allowed to fail. But that’s not actually what the statistic refers to.
The widely cited 1-in-10-jobs figure appears to come from a 2003 study conducted by the Center for Automotive Research on the “economic contributions of the motor vehicle to the U.S. economy, to a multitude of U.S. industries in retail, manufacturing and service sectors, and to individual Americans.” (C.A.R. is a nonprofit research organization with industry, labor, academic and government ties; this particular study was commissioned by the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, an industry group).
The study concludes that “new vehicle production, sales, and other jobs related to the use of automobiles are responsible for 1 out of every 10 jobs in the U.S economy.” The term “responsible for” is interpreted quite broadly, and covers jobs in steel, glass and electronics (the so-called “upstream” jobs) as well as those in taxi-driving, travel and advertising companies (”downstream” jobs), among others.
The broadness of the term “responsible for” aside, the study has minimal relevance to the question of how many jobs are at risk if the Detroit Three go bankrupt, for two reasons:
1) The study uses data from 1998 to 2001, and the industry has changed significantly since then. Employment in the motor vehicles and parts manufacturing sector has fallen, for example.
2) Much more importantly, it is an industrywide study: The auto-related jobs covered in the report include more than those dependent on the Detroit Three; they are related to cars sold by any manufacturer, domestic or international, in the American market.
In other words, the loss of a single American car company wouldn’t necessarily dissolve all those jobs that the entire auto industry “supports.” The failure of General Motors, for example, wouldn’t eliminate the entire car-wash industry. Car-washing jobs are primarily dependent on Americans’ continued demand for automobiles — whether they’re from Detroit or Nagoya — and not the operations of any one automobile company. If a foreign company could swoop in to fill that demand with minimal disruption, then, theoretically, car-wash employees would keep their jobs.
That’s not to say that there would be no ripple effects whatsoever from a G.M., Chrysler and/or Ford bankruptcy. In fact, C.A.R. has done a more recent — and much more relevant — study on just this question.
The study, which came out on Election Day, estimates “the economic impact — in terms of jobs, compensation and tax revenues — of a major contraction involving one or more of the Detroit Three automakers,” under two separate scenarios. In both cases, there would be major short-term shocks to employment; depending on which scenario you use, a contraction of the Detroit Three would result in direct and indirect job losses of 2.5 million to 3 million in 2009. (This figure was also cited by Governor Granholm.)
That statistic is nowhere close to 1 in 10 American jobs, but it’s nothing to sneeze at.
It still doesn’t tell the whole story, though. After all, if Americans still buy cars, how permanent would those auto-related job losses be? Some argue that most of these jobs would be recovered, because foreign-owned auto companies would expand their plants in the United States to fill the void left by the Big Three. Others predict that foreign companies would instead expand their production overseas because of cheaper labor costs and because the suppliers that now serve both domestically — and foreign-owned American plants would be pulled under along with the Big Three.
The C.A.R. study, for its part, extrapolates to 2011 only, but it finds that a significant portion of those lost jobs (40 or 59 percent, depending on the scenario) would be recovered by that time
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maybe_driving
Seasoned Expediter
watching the news today and the GM guy was begging for money, and when he was asked by the news guy about his jet he had nothing to say. They said it cost around 20,000 to take the jet and have it wait to go back. But only 300 round trip on united????and GM has 8 jets
ok........ ya'll can tell me if its just me or what.......... but
when ever i go to a GM or ford plant....... its like im treated like someone beneath them....
they will get to me as soon as possiable as they are sitting there reading a newspaper...
they treat u like ur stupid.... like they are gods gift and u have to bow down to them...
your just a driver...... and you will have to wait..... until they feel like unloading you.
you go to a nissian or toyota or honda ..... and they are right on it...... get u in and out of there. NO problems......... plus they are building new plants.
now whats wrong with this picture???
and GM and etc.......wants the goverment to bail them out ??? laffin here....... they should learn how to run there buisness better...... why dont the CEO's of these corporations but there salery's back some instead of booting there employee's out the door..... think there could be other ways ....... just my 2 cents here.
when ever i go to a GM or ford plant....... its like im treated like someone beneath them....
they will get to me as soon as possiable as they are sitting there reading a newspaper...
they treat u like ur stupid.... like they are gods gift and u have to bow down to them...
your just a driver...... and you will have to wait..... until they feel like unloading you.
you go to a nissian or toyota or honda ..... and they are right on it...... get u in and out of there. NO problems......... plus they are building new plants.
now whats wrong with this picture???
and GM and etc.......wants the goverment to bail them out ??? laffin here....... they should learn how to run there buisness better...... why dont the CEO's of these corporations but there salery's back some instead of booting there employee's out the door..... think there could be other ways ....... just my 2 cents here.