Fan clutch, thermostats? High idle all day...what are you doing with it? Is the exhaust brake on the whole time?
Is the exhaust brake set correctly?
Big Truck I work on Hino trucks. I'll answer any questions I know the answers to.
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Fan clutch, thermostats? High idle all day...what are you doing with it? Is the exhaust brake on the whole time?
Is the exhaust brake set correctly?
Let me take a step back. What is the truck used for? It suffers from overheating and frequent regens. Anything else? Is the check engine light on? Is there soot in the tailpipe? Does it run like crap for a few seconds when it's cold, then acts normal?
When it's doing an automatic regen, can you feel a loss of power, or do you not notice a thing?
Do you ever hear the fan clutch come on? If you don't, replace it.
ultimate556
Seasoned Expediter
The Hino is a flat bed tow truck. The thermostat and head gasket were just replaced. Gasket was bad between cylinders 3&4. Had the head check and was re milled. If you run the truck normal the temp seems fine. When you put a car on the back of it, it starts to run hot. The truck has a leaking turbo. There was a lot of built up soot and gunk in the intake system. I ask earlier if there was any chance of the egr or dpf clog cause the higher temps because of the gunk in the intake, witch I'm sure made its way into the dpf. And the fan clutch very rarely seem to come on. The fan clutch is so expensive I'm just trying to see if anything else could be the problem before wasting on a fan clutch it doesn't need.
Hi Greasyshirt,
Thank you for all the work you are doing here. I have read about 4th part of these (will continue) but didn't find yet what I am trying to solve.
our small company has 4 fresh Hinos 10-13
two of them have DPR lights
we have recently purchased a Hino-Bownie adapter and Hino DX came with it
268 Hino 2013 has a DPR check light came on recently and DX doesn't see the code now (it did before when it just showed up)
when doing a scan we go as 700 series, is that correct? (other series didn't show codes on other Hinos)
also, is there any limitations that we might have on our DX software, that don't let us make a full scan?
sorry for obvious questions, but we are new to it, used internationals before with no DPFs
Thank you for any help
Thank you for all the work you are doing here. I have read about 4th part of these (will continue) but didn't find yet what I am trying to solve.
our small company has 4 fresh Hinos 10-13
two of them have DPR lights
we have recently purchased a Hino-Bownie adapter and Hino DX came with it
268 Hino 2013 has a DPR check light came on recently and DX doesn't see the code now (it did before when it just showed up)
when doing a scan we go as 700 series, is that correct? (other series didn't show codes on other Hinos)
also, is there any limitations that we might have on our DX software, that don't let us make a full scan?
sorry for obvious questions, but we are new to it, used internationals before with no DPFs
Thank you for any help
Hino tow trucks tend to suffer the most regen problems. Make sure that it's ecu software is the latest version, and that the exhaust brake is adjusted correctly. While they are in there, under the engine customization menu, there is an item labeled 'Flag for rental car' or something nutty like that. If that value is changed from 0 to 1, it will allow you to force an manual regen at any time, even if the DPR graph is showing less than three bars.
Is the pto wired into the ecu? If it is, when you hit the pto switch, the ecu will automatically ramp up the rpm to wherever it's programmed. This is also useful for another reason: The truck can do an auto regen if the pto is on, even if the truck is sitting still.
You need a fan clutch if the truck overheats and you don't hear it come on.
Is there excessive oil in the engine? If there is, drain it. If not, consider adding the crankcase breather cap and coalescent filter from an 11-13 conventional truck. It'll help keep some of the oil out of the turbo intake.
You might need a turbo. Check it for excessive axial and radial endplay. No axial endplay should be felt. Radial endplay does not have a spec, other than the compressor wheel shouldn't hit the housing. It should also spin freely. If you feel it stick, it's bad. If you think you might feel it sticking, it's sticking. Does it ever make a surging sound when you shut it off?
You may also need a brand new cylinder head. The cam idler gear in the back of the head...there's no provision to adjust the lash between the gear teeth between it and the gear that's driving it. If there is no free-play between these, one will eventually fail, and the results will probably be catastrophic.
Neither Hino or Isuzu (both having a fixed cam idler gear in the head) recommend head milling or block deck machining.
I like when I hear about people buying Hino DX. You can now experience the same trial-by-fire as me! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
I've been using DXII for about 18 months now, and the details of DX are already getting fuzzy, but bear with me.
North America: 600 series is all conventional trucks from 2005-2016. 300 series is cab-over-engine trucks from 2013-up.
You'll see the option to select ecu, bcu, dcu, meter, vcs, correct? When you select one, you'll have to hit system fix to connect to it.
For a regen problem, in the ecu you are probably seeing a P141F, or P244B, correct? These are generic codes sent by the BCU to the ECU (which has the power to turn on the CEL, but not the other way around). So the specific codes you are after are not P141F or P244B (or whatever), as these are just generic codes sent from the BCU to the ECU. The specific codes you are after are in the BCU. Your favorite code will become P2030, burner malfunction.
Do not just erase everything! You will make this a hell of a lot harder.
Download the 'burner event log' and print it (maybe to a pdf writer program or something). Save it to the desktop, or you'll never find it again. 37 pages of gibberish later, you'll see the computer commands to turn the burner on or off, stuff like that. You are looking for lost flame events or failure to come up to temp, especially toward the end. You'll also see who keeps shutting the truck off in the middle of a regen because they don't know what the light means. This is 37 pages of clues, history, damning evidence, etc. Combined with the codes saved in the dashboard, you can make out an exact timeline of when stuff went south. I explained on here a few times how to get the codes out of the dash.
When you actually get down to troubleshooting the burner system, you are going to need more information. Specifically, how to troubleshoot P2030. Think of the burner system as an engine itself. You need air, fuel, spark.
You check the spark by removing the atomizer feed line and nozzle, and actually looking between the two spark plugs, you need uninterrupted spark for ten minutes. Use DX, connected to the BCU, to turn on the ignition coil.
Jeez, this is gonna take forever to type. PM me for a phone number. Be prepared to take notes really fast.
Tatsadasayago
Rookie Expediter
Hi and thanks for being such a valuable asset to the community!
I run a 2014 258 as a flatbed tow truck here with 40k miles and have a DEF question.
I've been driving it since mid Feb and have been watching the DEF level closely. It has been subzero on and off during this time as well as days of 70F and after at least 6 fuelings, the DEF level is now only reaching a bit below half on the outside pipe gauge. Is this normal usage for the new Hinos? I have seen only about 6 regen operations and don't believe the rental flag has been set to 1. I keep the dash display in DPR and sure enough, when it hits 3 bars, the regen begins. I drive conservatively and wonder if this might be partly due to the low DEF usage...or I just have a low soot producing engine.
Your thoughts?
Jim
Watford City, ND
I run a 2014 258 as a flatbed tow truck here with 40k miles and have a DEF question.
I've been driving it since mid Feb and have been watching the DEF level closely. It has been subzero on and off during this time as well as days of 70F and after at least 6 fuelings, the DEF level is now only reaching a bit below half on the outside pipe gauge. Is this normal usage for the new Hinos? I have seen only about 6 regen operations and don't believe the rental flag has been set to 1. I keep the dash display in DPR and sure enough, when it hits 3 bars, the regen begins. I drive conservatively and wonder if this might be partly due to the low DEF usage...or I just have a low soot producing engine.
Your thoughts?
Jim
Watford City, ND
rickandter
Seasoned Expediter
our 2008 hino keeps blowing the ucact fuse that is below the steps on drivers side, 15 amp fuse. any suggestions? It happens intermitily
rickandter
Seasoned Expediter
The fuze blows alot now it used to be only once in a while it is fuze 19 in the box under steps says u2 actuator seems like it goes to turbo but had turbo replaced still same problem. Cant see any wires rubbing checked conector to actuator looks ok. Still blows fuze when driving
Thank you for reply. I PMed you yesterday.. sorry for the confusion there..
Unfortunately, I couldn't figure out how to download 'burner event log'.. I've read all the discussions here, could miss it thought.
Also, couldn't find 'amount of pm piling up' in our DX (checked all configuration menus and others)
can you piont me out where maybe you already explained some of it
currently I am scanning 2009 HINO 268 7.7L that has 172K and a dealer stated that recall service was done on DPF system at like 147K
it has a check engine on and the codes:
P2002 Active
P2002 Inactive
U1001 Inactive
U0101 Inactive
U0101 Inactive
U0155 Inactive
It doesn't let us do a manual regen (using button on a panel), but has DPF 10 bars on a dashboard
I am about to try doing forced manual regen via DX
but still wanted to pull out all the information that mentioned, to try to find out the issues
Any suggest would be appreciated
here's a ecu protection data
<img src="http://i937.photobucket.com/albums/ad214/trader3126/HINO/032615-133_zpsco3lynjm.jpg">
Thanks again,
Igor
In subzero weather, the DEF will freeze and it takes a little while for it to thaw back out. During this time, DEF injection is suspended.
With conservative driving comes a lower demand for power, which results in higher EGR usage. EGR is used less when there is a large demand for power. At lower power levels, it's used quite a bit. This keeps combustion temperatures down, so NOx production is significantly reduced.
With both periods of DEF injection being suspended and your driving habits, I'd expect to see DEF usage pretty low.
U2 actuator translated into English is 'devices powered by the ecu'. Pretty much, anyway. This includes the VNT controller on the turbo, the EGR valve(s), the mass airflow sensor, and maybe some other stuff (I'd need to look at a wiring diagram).
Ok. The U-codes can generally be disregarded if the truck appears to run correctly. Except U0073, but you don't have that one, so moving on. P2002 is the general Regeneration Malfunction code. It does not point to a single sensor or item, there is a number of things that must be inspected.
First step in sorting out a regen problem on an 08-10 truck is to figure out if the injectors are good. This is going to be very difficult for you to interpret, so we're going to cheat. Get the truck totally warmed up. Using data monitor, graph engine rpm, coolant temperature, and injection quantity. Run the engine at 1500 rpm using Activation test. Does the rpm hunt up and down, approaching a 25rpm differential? Look at the injection quantity. Is it consistently less than 6 mm3? If either of these answers is yes, then the injectors are at fault and the truck is making too much soot.
Take the CAC outlet hose off and look at the Intake Throttle Valve. Is the plate inside loose? Is there excessive play in the shaft? If so, replace it. There should be three holes, 3mm diameter, drilled into the lower edge of the throttle plate. Do these exist? If not, find the "Hino Turbo" thread. I posted a pic showing where to drill these holes. Take it off of the truck first so it doesn't ingest brass particles.
Restart the engine, get it hot again, and set the rpm at 980. Record the injection quantity. Turn on the exhaust brake. The injection quantity should rise. The target should be 12 mm3 higher. This is adjusted at the exhaust brake under the truck. There are two adjustment bolts. One should not be touched. You are after the one that is being contacted when the exhaust brake is ON. Generally this value rises over time, and you'll need to back out the bolt to limit how much the exhaust brake can engage.
The 'PM amount' line should be in the ecu customization menu. It should be changed to 2.5. This will put the DPR graph at three, which will allow you to either push the button or to drive the truck (and it will immediately start doing an automatic regen).
Check system protection data. There will be a line in there for DPR MAX OUTLET TEMP. If this number exceeds 1485F, the DPF needs to be removed and checked for damage.
If the PM AMOUNT is over 12, the truck will not be able to regen it all (and it may damage the DPF if it attempts it). If it's undamaged but packed with soot, you can have it baked. Hell, you can probably blow a lot of the soot out with compressed air (wear a dusk mask for sure).
I don't remember where to find everything in DX anymore.
The burner event log will be in bcu-->view. I think.
PM amount will be in ecu-->configuration-->?? There should be some sub-menus. I think. This is hard!
The rental car flag is under ecu-->customization.
PM amount will be in ecu-->configuration-->?? There should be some sub-menus. I think. This is hard!
The rental car flag is under ecu-->customization.
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walemurphsprin
Rookie Expediter
would this injector spec be the same for and 07-10 truck. I am running at 6.6 for injection quantity. I seem to remember a tsb stating 12 was spec. we just installed a new dpf and I am not sure if it should get injectors also
Greasytshirt has been helping me with a similar problem and i think in the data monitor there is something that show the actual amount of stuff piled up I don't know if this helps you or not...
6.6 is within the realm of normal. 8-9 is a new injector. Failure is indicated by frequent dips under 5, or a constant 25rpm speed delta (computer is controlling at 1500, but actual rpm ranges beyond ~1488- ~1512. Give or take.
2005-2010 trucks actually use an entirely different test to judge injector health, called an scv test. For you to be able to accurately analyze it, there are Excel graphing macros that are used. This is beyond the scope of this discussion. For 2011 and up, this ten minute monitoring of injection quantity and rpm differential is used. If a 2010 and older truck fails the newer test, it's probably going to fail the older test too (more for low injection quantity than rpm differential). When injection quantity at steady state speeds tapers way off, the ecu has lost control of the injectors because they are leaking, and much more soot is created. The ecu doesn't really know how much soot is being produced, so DPF temps start rising when regens occur. This eventually causes DPF failure.
The calculation of PM (particulate matter) is a theoretical number, but the higher it gets, the chances of a DPF meltdown is more likely. When everything is going fine, you might see DPF outlet temps max at 1200. 1300 is getting a little hot. 1400 is definitely pushing it. 1500 and up is probably fatal.
When the PM amount reaches 12, that's the theoretical limit of what the truck can successfully regen on its own. Expect the outlet temp to be sky high. If soot doesn't pass through it, everything is fine. If it does, the DPF has probably been melted. 2011-14: If the SCR temp sensor sees high temps, the ecu will turn off the burner until it cools, then start again. If the truck is taking forever to regen, and the exhaust is super hot, this is probably what's happening. If it's taking forever and the exhaust is not super hot, then there's a burner malfunction.
For even more confusion, 11-14 trucks have an updated DPF available. Occasionally the big ol' chunk of ceramic substrate that makes up the DPF would break free from the surly bonds of its casing and move downstream for a snuggle session with the DOC. When this happens, all kinds of weird codes show up, like differential pressure sensor codes ( this sensor rarely fails, so these codes are extremely unusual) and failure of the DPF outlet temp sensor (because it gets decapitated). All new DPFs have a retaining ring to prevent this from ever happening again. There have been four cases of this happening where I work. Less than 5 percent (est) of DPF failures go down like this.
Also, there are other frequent causes of DPF failure on 08-10 trucks, notably exhaust brake adjustment (super, super important), Intake throttle valve sticking shut (often a contributing factor), engines very overfilled with oil (which ends up in the intake and then the DPF), clogged nasty air filters, clogging of the differential pressure sensor tubes (infrequent), harness breakage at the DPF temp sensors (causes a multiple bar jump on the DPR graph), and turbo failure. Turbo failure is best found while monitoring DPF inlet and outlet temps, ITV actual and commanded position, and boost pressure while driving during an automatic regen. Boost pressure will be low,normal max is 32-35 psia (psi absolute, which is boost pressure plus atmospheric pressure, which is almost 15 at sea level), while a failure of the turbo or ITV (or both) will make intake pressure drop to 20. Or less. I've seen them pull a vacuum. A boost leak or ITV stick will also cause the DPF inlet temp to be higher than outlet, which is not realistic during a real automatic regen. I say real because if you trick the ecu by changing the PM amount, which will trigger a regen, if the DPF is clean the inlet temp will be a little higher than the outlet.
I know this is a lot to take in. This is a few years of practice condensed into a few posts.
I know this is a lot to take in. This is a few years of practice condensed into a few posts.
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You may want to take the cover off of the bulkhead connector box (behind the air filter) and have a peek inside. if the screws are loose or missing, water can get in there. The big plug (lower left)with the lever on the top is the one for all the engine electronics. Press the two side tabs in and pull the lever toward you. The whole thing will pop off. Check for moisture or corrosion or tampering. Cleaning with contact cleaner can't hurt. With the lever still in the forward position, push the connector together. The lever will want to move back. Pushing the lever back locks the connector together.
Aside from that, look for accessory wires stuffed into random fuse slots in the inside fuse panel (dedicated power sources are available for this kind of thing, but no one uses them or knows about them).
Check the ground connections. Grounds on the frame and cab still have paint under them. As the truck ages and surface rust creeps around the threads, the grounds lose contact. There will be a ground strap from the engine to frame (left front, near the front axle, a forum member reported some haywire behavior with this strap disconnected) another just behind the left front tire (maybe the right too), the front of the battery box (right off of the neg battery connection), possibly one behind the battery box (which is a pain to get to sometimes), and the cab to frame, left rear of cab (causes all manners of misbehavior). The paint should be removed entirely, revealing bare metal where the grounds connect. You can grease up the cable, frame, bolt to prevent rust.
I remembered some details!
The link you posted is the system protection data. It shows maximum DPF temps. Inlet is lower than outlet, which is good (there's not an airflow problem through the engine). DPF outlet is getting pretty high. This could be from some injector degradation. However, the truck still should have regen'd automatically, and it should have been able to successfully manually regen.
The following applies to 2008-2010 trucks only.
Without being able to see soot amount, the following advise is at your own risk, ok? First, is there a lot of soot in the tailpipe? If so, the DPF is already damaged, so might as well do some experiments on it. If not, remove it and blow a ton of compressed air through it, rear to front. Don't breathe the soot. Expect an impressive cloud. If you remove it and it's burst like a tick, well, you need a new one. And since the thing had the recall done on it, you MIGHT be able to get parts warranty on it if it is damaged.
Now that we've theoretically removed some excess soot, and the DPF appears undamaged (hopefully), start the truck, warm it up completely, set rpm to 980. Using data monitor, record injection quantity. Turn on exhaust brake. IQ should go up 12mm3 higher. If it's too high (frequent issue), adjust the stopper bolt that the brake contacts when the brake is on. Leave the other one alone. Back bolt out to lower injection quantity.
Shut off engine. Turn key to ON position.
Go into system protection data and reset DPF inlet and outlet max temps.
Clear codes. If P2002 won't go away, go to activation test menu (the one where you can set engine rpm and turn injectors on and off), and select RELEASE REPEAT OFFENSE. This will allow a hard set code to go away. Clear codes again.
At this point, I'd generally go to the ecu customization menu, change pm amount to 3 (which makes the truck demand a manual regen) and then I can go into Data Monitor and look at the parameters that I want to look at. Since you haven't discovered that option yet (this program is confusing) or it doesn't exist on your version (fleet version???), the only option you have is to use the DPR Check function.
NOTE: if this is an actual problem with whatever versions of Hino DX are available to the public, fixing an 11-14 conventional with a burner issue is going to be extremely frustrating.
Go to DPR Check. Click start test, then hit CLEAR DPR HISTORY. This should reset the DPR graph to zero bars. Start the engine.
Select MANUAL REGENERATION. Push the regen button on the dash. The rpm will rise to 980. The exhaust brake will close. The injection quantity will rise. It will rise higher than the total injection quantity that you calculated earlier by a few numbers (to take into account the post injection that's putting fuel into the oxidation catalyst, which sits directly in front of the DPF (they share the same canister). Once the DPR inlet temp hits 400 degrees, the DOC lights off, and temps start climbing fairly rapidly. The inlet temp will first overshoot (to maybe 1100 or so), then settle down to around 1030. Watch the outlet temp. It'll lag behind inlet temp for a while, then start rising. When the DPF is clean, it rarely goes over 1000 degrees. If it's soot loaded, it'll continue going up in temp. Sometimes startlingly quickly. If you see it really ramping up super fast and it shoots past 1300, hit stop test (or turn off the engine). If this happens, restart the engine and let it idle for a few minutes and try it again. A slow climb up past 1200, maybe into the 1300 range is ok. It may run for quite a few minutes. It may have a light colored smoke come out of the tailpipe, which is normal. The differential pressure may be 4-5, but it should gradually decrease to around 1 or less. You may have to regen it like this a few times. Go back to system protection data, see what the DPR inlet and outlet max temps are now. Outlet should be below 1485, preferably a few hundred degrees below that.
IDK if the version of DX you have will allow you to change the PM calculated amount in the ecu or not. If not, this will be difficult to accomplish. The next step is to monitor DPF inlet and outlet temps, boost pressure, mass airflow, ITV command and actual (%), DPR differential pressure During an automatic regen. The temps will go higher, but outlet should be hotter than inlet (if there's soot left to burn, anyway). Setting the PM amount to 2.5 will put the DPR graph at 3 bars, and it will start to do an automatic regen almost immediately after you start driving. Yes, the laptop you have DX installed on needs to ride too, preferably by you while someone else drives. The battery needs to last for at least half an hour. The exhaust brake should be left off all the time, except for when it's needed.
This would be a heck of a lot easier to demonstrate in person. I should make a youtube video or something.
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