I-81 Harrisburg, Pa WARNING

[Turtle]

Turtle; I am shockingly surprised with the heading of your post of which I posted in another forum. I did post it in the general forum as well, just under a different title that had equally important info.

You mean the equally important info about the truck stop outages that are no longer outages? That began with "All the truckstops here in Harrisburg, Pa now have power restored..."? The one that said, essentially, in the first sentence, "All is well"? That post? The one where the very important warning about black ice was tossed onto the end of the paragraph, which made it lower in importance than both the truckstops getting their power back and thanking those who were concerned about you being broken down? That post of equally important info? Got it.

If I didn't post it as you thought I should have, forgive me, I am still new to this site and am doing my best to keep ALL expediters informed of the conditions around ME.

Best is best, and I cannot hammer someone over doing their best. But posting a warning to ALL drivers buried at the bottom of a long "all is well" paragraph, and then posting the same warning in a carrier-specific forum where topics are supposed to be carrier-specific and only apply to drivers of that carrier, and giving it such importance as to start its own thread, that's probably not the most effective way to inform ALL expediters.

I don't think that it was right that you INDIRECTLY ACCUSED me of not warning everyone in the general forum, but I did...I believe you didn't read the updated posts, if you would have...then this conversation wouldn't have happened.

Actually, this conversation happened because I read your updated post. If I had not read your updated post, I would have no reason to start this thread. If your all-inclusive General Forum warning had not been buried at the bottom of an "all is well" paragraph, which many people would have stopped reading after the first few sentences once they realized "all is well", and then reposted the same warning in a carrier-specific forum where many who are not with that carrier will never even read in the first place, I wouldn't have felt it important enough to repost it in the General Forum with its own thread, which has a better chance of reaching ALL drivers. So as I stated in my first sentence, I reposted it, here, in the General Forum. And I even stated why I reposted it. I didn't accuse you of anything, directly or indirectly, other than, perhaps, ineffective communication.

Again, I offer you and everyone else an apology for not posting it seperately from the" power outage update". Respectfully, Skip

Apology accepted, though completely unnecessary. It's all about how effectively you want to communicate.

it makes it sound as though I only posted it in our forum and that I was only wanting our drivers to know and to be safe.

Yes is does, especially coming on the heels of the carrier-specific "bracing for 1st snowstorm of the season" thread, where comments from drivers of other carriers aren't even allowed, which carries its own implications and inferences.

 

[Turtle]

Did the National Weather Service really issue a Black Ice Warning?

Yes, they did. they have issued many in the past. The term is a slang term, which the NWS admits, but it does denote the clear or translucent ice on roadways that are difficult or impossible to see. It's a warning that ice may be present which you will not readily see, as opposed to the more opaque ice that is readily visible. If a warning is issued for ice on the road, but it's not opaque or white (known as either hard rime or soft rime, depending) and you cannot see it, people might think there's no ice here, hence the "Black Ice" term and warning.

"Black Ice" is a term that applies to both "Clear Ice" (usually freezing fog) and "Glaze Ice" (usually freezing rain), which are meteorological terms used to describe homogeneous (a uniform structure throughout), amorphous (non-crystalline) ice, but is also used to describe the same homogeneous, amorphous ice that has formed on road surfaces from melted snow.

The NWS even has criteria for the threshold in issuing a Black Ice Warning.

 

[Moot]

It's a term that I've heard several thousand times during my 700K mile PLUS driving career.

In your 700K PLUS driving career how many times have you seen black ice?

 

[Moot]

Yes, they did. they have issued many in the past.

The NWS even has criteria for the threshold in issuing a Black Ice Warning.

According to this link the NWS lists "black ice" under the broad Winter Weather Advisory category, not as a Winter Weather Warning.

 

[skipr4520]

You mean the equally important info about the truck stop outages that are no longer outages? That began with "All the truckstops here in Harrisburg, Pa now have power restored..."? The one that said, essentially, in the first sentence, "All is well"? That post? The one where the very important warning about black ice was tossed onto the end of the paragraph, which made it lower in importance than both the truckstops getting their power back and thanking those who were concerned about you being broken down? That post of equally important info? Got it.

Best is best, and I cannot hammer someone over doing their best. But posting a warning to ALL drivers buried at the bottom of a long "all is well" paragraph, and then posting the same warning in a carrier-specific forum where topics are supposed to be carrier-specific and only apply to drivers of that carrier, and giving it such importance as to start its own thread, that's probably not the most effective way to inform ALL expediters.

Actually, this conversation happened because I read your updated post. If I had not read your updated post, I would have no reason to start this thread. If your all-inclusive General Forum warning had not been buried at the bottom of an "all is well" paragraph, which many people would have stopped reading after the first few sentences once they realized "all is well", and then reposted the same warning in a carrier-specific forum where many who are not with that carrier will never even read in the first place, I wouldn't have felt it important enough to repost it in the General Forum with its own thread, which has a better chance of reaching ALL drivers. So as I stated in my first sentence, I reposted it, here, in the General Forum. And I even stated why I reposted it. I didn't accuse you of anything, directly or indirectly, other than, perhaps, ineffective communication.

Apology accepted, though completely unnecessary. It's all about how effectively you want to communicate.

Yes is does, especially coming on the heels of the carrier-specific "bracing for 1st snowstorm of the season" thread, where comments from drivers of other carriers aren't even allowed, which carries its own implications and inferences.

Turtle: after reading this post from you and explaining how the warning was buried at the end of the truckstop post, how you broke everything down, seperated it and explained the err in my post, I MUST AGREE WITH the way that it was posted, it is INCORRECT. I should have started a new thread specifically for that warning as I did in the carrier forum. I, obviously new to trying to post things, am trying to learn from watching senior posts and do it all from a blackberry that isn't all that great to use for this. And YES, in my opinion, it does warrant an apology because I was incorrect and raised in the way to accept my mistakes, learn from them and apologize for my mistakes made. I was incorrect, I apologize to you and will learn from this.
I started posting when I first created my account and was falsely accused of "being a dispatcher", an office worker...and so on, all because I am happy with whom my fleet owner is, so I quit posting for a while because I was tired of getting hammered for loving who I am employed by and always having to defend myself. I truly believed that the person who did that should have apologized for the false accusations and that poster never did. So, in my opinion, it does warrant an apology. BTW; excellent job on the different terms and definitions referring to ice, I didn't know that there was so many different termonolgies for it. Skip

 

[skipr4520]

OMG! OMG! OMG! Moot; I didn't mean to start a battle over what the local news channel said, all I did was quote what the News media said. Its just a term that has been used for several yrs. I stopped using that term out of respect in the fact that it offended you. In response to what the ER would put on the chart of someone who slipped and fell ice? NO, the wouldn't use the term "..... Ice", they would simply say; "slipped on ice". BUT, in a motor vehicle accident, I know FOR A 100% FACT that the ambulance report, DOT investigative report AND the nursing notes in the ER ALL would use the term "..... Ice". I should know, because I was a Florida patrolman for 2 yrs, a Military Police Officer for five years and am a Medic of which I have been doing since 1992. I have worked IN THE ER as a part-time job while working on a E-911 AMbulance service, recording nursing notes in charts during mass casualty accidents, major traumas and code blues, so I KNOW FOR A FACT that that term is used by more than the media.

 

[scottm4211]

Is it a full moon

 

[Rocketman]

Is it a full moon

Not sure if it's a full moon for everybody, but I think it must be for a couple of people

 

[skipr4520]

Is it a full moon

LOL; On halloween no doubt!!

 

[layoutshooter]

I don't think you can blame it on the "Full Moon". My first guess would be a lack of time spent fishing!


October 2011 Moon Phases Calendar / Moon Schedule

 

[skipr4520]

I don't think you can blame it on the "Full Moon". My first guess would be a lack of time spent fishing!


October 2011 Moon Phases Calendar / Moon Schedule

No doubt about that.

 

[jimby82]

I seem to remember a saying about mountains and molehills.

Posted with my Droid EO Forum App

 

[Turtle]

According to this link the NWS lists "black ice" under the broad Winter Weather Advisory category, not as a Winter Weather Warning.

Correct. The NWS does not issue a "Black Ice Warning" or "Black Ice Advisory" or a "Black Ice Watch" (despite the many newspaper headlines that indicate otherwise). They issue a "Winter Weather Advisory" and then in the advisory statement indicate what the advisory actually is. In the case of "Black Ice", it's a "Winter Weather Advisory for Black Ice". They do that a lot, even when it's solely melting snow and slush freezing which can cause icy conditions. On my weather app on the phone I get notifications of NWS alerts, some of them are specifically for Black Ice.

Here's an actual quote from an actual NWS Winter Weather Advisory for Black Ice. It is not a current advisory. It's from last winter:

The National Weather Service has issued a winter weather advisory for black ice in effect from 6 pm this evening to 9am Tuesday.{then is lists a bazillion counties}

Recent snowfall has resulted in wet and slushy roadways across much of central North Carolina. Temperatures will struggle to Reach freezing this afternoon, and will quickly drop well below freezing after sunset. Low temperatures on Tuesday morning are expected to drop into the lower to mid teens across the entire area. As a result, any water, snow or slush on area roadways will quickly turn to ice around or shortly after sunset this evening and remain that way through rush hour Tuesday morning.
A winter weather advisory for black ice means that treacherous road conditions are expected. Travel in the advisory area is strongly discouraged from sunset this evening through mid to late Tuesday morning. If you must travel, exercise extreme caution while driving — especially on bridges and overpasses. Allow for extra time to reach your destination and avoid sudden stops or accelerations.​

 

[Turtle]

Turtle: after reading this post from you and explaining how the warning was buried......

It ain't that big a deal. If it was any less of a deal it wouldn't even be a deal.

The important thing is that we got Moot riled up over the term of "Black Ice".

I agree it's a silly term. It talks down to people and sensationalizes ice as if people have never experienced transparent ice before.

 

[MissKat]

Would the last person to pull their panties out of their b..t please shut down this thread. Geez, the poor poster got slammed for trying to be helpful.

Posted with my Droid EO Forum App

 

[Turtle]

Would the last person to pull their panties out of their b..t please shut down this thread. Geez, the poor poster got slammed for trying to be helpful.

How, exactly, did the poor poster get slammed? No one slammed the poor poster. The NWS got slammed. Ice got slammed. But the poor poster is fine.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

http://www.ratebeer.com/beerimages/250.gif

 

[mjmsprt40]

I've driven most of my life in the Chicago area, only recently (the last six months or so) in expedited. Black Ice has been a hazard during winter ever since-- dinosaurs roamed the Earth, I reckon.

I've hit a patch a time or three, with predictable results. I got lucky, after losing control I got it back again without breaking things or hurting people, but you learn fast that clear ice demands respect.

 

[Brisco]

In your 700K PLUS driving career how many times have you seen black ice?

Quite a few times I'd say.......

One can interpret the term "Black Ice" differently than say a dozen others could. Guess Turtles posts has it covered in a general idea.....

My interpretation of what Black Ice is is this.....

You're heading down the road and it's either raining lightly with no "white" snow in the air whatsoever, or there's a light wet mist outside. Your overhead temp gauge says it's 21 degrees outside. The "black" asphalt top looks wet, not icy, just wet. But, in fact, it is actually covered in a sheet of ice. Is it "transparent" ice??? Of course.....But, laying over the top of black asphalt, it is "black ice" to me.

Now, same scenario above but with a little "white" snow involved, you're going to be able to know right off the bat that of course there's going to be ice on the road, cause you can SEE IT. If there is no "white snow" involved, just a misty wet transparent watery condition, you are not going to see that ice forming over that "BLACK" surface. Thus the term Black Ice.....Black Ice.....Black Ice......Black Ice.

That's my Opinion, OK.....

Maybe a word of advice here for some newer "members" that have gotten involved here. One thing to watch for when driving in conditions above (temps way below 32 degrees, wet rain/misting, NO SNOW) is both your mirrors and the edges of your windhield. If there is the slightest form of ice building up around the outer edges of your windshield, or along the edges of your outside mirrors, there is a great probability that there is also "BLACK ICE" also building up on that roadway. Especially on bridges and overpasses. So, be careful, OK. I usually just get off the road when I start seeing these event happening "ON" my truck and wait til I know that State Crews have gotten out there and treated/worked on the roadways to make them safe.

 

[Moot]

In your 700K PLUS driving career how many times have you seen black ice?

Quite a few times I'd say.......

I usually just get off the road when I start seeing these event happening "ON" my truck and wait til I know that State Crews have gotten out there and treated/worked on the roadways to make them safe.

One can interpret the term "Black Ice" differently than say a dozen others could.

One certainly can. I choose to reject the term "black ice" completely as a misnomer and its being overly used by people who believe it somehow exonerates them from any liability resulting from an ice induced accident.

Check out a Dallas Stars home game. Not only do they have red and blue ice, they also have green and gold ice. I heard on the cb that the rare gold ice is the most treacherous.

No matter what color the ice, be careful in your winter travels. Conditions can change rapidly.