How is this anything less than first degree murder?

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
Let me guess...the badge-licking crowd will say that since the driver wouldn't pull over, he and his passenger were rightfully executed.

Posted for comment in accordance with federal law regarding fair use. From TheNewspaper.com:

Ohio Cops Criminally Charged In Car Chase Shootout
Posted: 05 Jun 2014 01:12 AM PDT
A light blue 1979 Chevy Malibu SS was left wrecked, riddled with 137 bullets in the parking lot of Heritage Middle School in East Cleveland, Ohio on the evening of November 29, 2012. Its unarmed driver, Timothy Russell, and passenger, Malissa William, died at the scene. The case takes on extraordinary significance as a Cuyahoga County grand jury on Friday indicted six of the police officers who were involved.

It all began when the thirty-three-year-old Malibu backfired as it drove past a police station. An officer assumed it was a gunshot and began to pursue. Russell, who had a criminal record, did not stop.

A total of 64 Cleveland police cars eventually enlisted in the chase, which lasted 27 minutes. Several officers visually confirmed during the chase that the Malibu's occupants were not armed, but instead had a can of soda. A few also reported to investigators that they saw the Malibu backfiring on Interstate 90, but they failed to report this during the pursuit.

The chase came to an end when Russell turned onto an access road near the school that dead-ended in the parking lot. He was trapped on a narrow, well-lit road with thirteen squad cars and twenty-three officers bearing down on him. Officer Wilfredo Diaz rammed the Malibu, using the PIT maneuver to send the vehicle spinning. Officer Diaz and his partner then bailed out of their squad car while it was still moving and fired two shots at Williams in the passenger seat. As the Malibu slowed, Officer Diaz fired two shots at Russell.

"Shots fired, shots fired," the police radio blared without identifying that it was the police doing the shooting.

A few of the officers continued firing at the Malibu long after it had come to a complete stop. The gunfire eventually stopped, and there was a distinct pause as officers reloaded. Officer Michael Brelo hopped onto the hood of the Malibu and emptied his third magazine, at least fifteen rounds, into Russell and Williams at close range. Sixty more shots rang out as others joined in a second volley.

Williams died with twenty-four gunshot wounds and Russell was hit twenty-three times. Officer Brelo will now stand trial for manslaughter for opening a second round of shooting.

"The driver was fully stopped," Cuyahoga County Prosecutor Timothy J. McGinty explained. "Escape was no longer even a remote possibility... The primary danger facing the police at this time was from themselves, if they continued to shoot at each other in the circular firing squad they had inadvertently formed."

The supervisors on duty, Lieutenant Paul Wilson, Sergeant Patricia Coleman, Sergeant Randolph Dailey, Sergeant Michael Donegan and Sergeant Jason Edens, were charged with dereliction of duty, a misdemeanor.

"The supervisors failed to do their duty to control and manage the chase, and thereby endangered both the public and the police officers they were supposed to be leading," McGinty said. "These supervisors allowed a disturbed, petty criminal to take charge and lead a large portion of the Cleveland Police force that was on duty that evening -- and to unnecessarily endanger motorists and citizens in two cities."

The families of the victims filed a federal lawsuit last year. A status conference on the case was held Wednesday.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
It might be just about as bad for someone to say those people were rightfully executed as it would be for someone to be so consumed with hatred and vitriol to classify anyone with less hatred of law enforcement as badge lickers.

Police shouldn't have fired without fully assessing the situation, in which case they wouldn't have fired, but the guy also shouldn't have failed to stop and taken police on a 27 minutes was it? police chase.
 
Last edited:

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
How is it anything less than first degree murder you ask? The prosecutor could have filed first degree murder charges but may have had some difficulty proving premeditation. The cops would walk and then you would really have something to whine about.
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
How is it anything less than first degree murder you ask? The prosecutor could have filed first degree murder charges but may have had some difficulty proving premeditation. The cops would walk and then you would really have something to whine about.

Yes, that's a good point.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
It might be just about as bad for someone to say those people were rightfully executed as it would be for someone to be so consumed with hatred and vitriol to classify anyone with less hatred of law enforcement as badge lickers.

Police shouldn't have fired without fully assessing the situation, in which case they wouldn't have fired, but the guy also shouldn't have failed to stop and taken police on a 27 minutes was it? police chase.

You're correct: the guy shouldn't have failed to stop. One can presume that having a criminal record had some bearing on his decision, but we will never know why.
You say the police shouldn't have fired [duh!], but in many police jurisdictions, they shouldn't have continued to chase him, to begin with. He wasn't a known danger, wasn't fleeing a felony crime, hadn't done anything, except make an inadvertent noise the cops misconstrued, and chasing him presented a danger to the public greater than whatever they might hope to prevent by catching him.
They chased him because they enjoyed it, and they shot him [and his passenger] because the testosterone addled their brains.
The good news is, they didn't get away with it.
 

Humble2drive

Expert Expediter
They chased him because they enjoyed it, and they shot him [and his passenger] because the testosterone addled their brains.

I am not sure about the enjoyment aspect but I do think that many of our Law Enforcement Officer's have become "warriors without a war" and are overly anxious to use their arsenal of tactical weapons.
As far as "testosterone addled" goes. I have mentioned here before that there is a hormone clinic (testosterone dispensary) next to my Doctor's office. There is always a constant flow of Law Enforcement Officers picking up their testosterone stash. The parking lot looks like it is a remote Sheriff's office. It appears by this small example that many Police have a desire to maximize their testosterone levels.*
I am not making my comments out of a hatred for police. I am just concerned that unchecked authority emboldens some to over reach certain boundaries.
Glad to see that in this circumstance (if true) the over reach of authority was put in check.*
 

tenntrucker

Expert Expediter
Sad story

9ynanetu.jpg


sent from my Galaxy Tab2
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
hadn't done anything, except make an inadvertent noise the cops misconstrued, and chasing him presented a danger to the public greater than whatever they might hope to prevent by catching him.

Yeah, just because the cops hear a gunshot from a drive by shooting that's no reason to chase someone. The public is in greater danger from the chase than from additional bullets from the drive by shooter.

Turns out it wasn't a drive by shooting, however, certain backfires can sound virtually identical to a gunshot. In certain areas it would be more likely to hear a gunshot than a backfire. While the ending can and should be criticized the beginning is another story. I'm confident it won't be too long until my confirmation appears.
 

xiggi

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Its not unlike gang mentality the same thing that causes riots after a big win or loss in sports.

Sent from my - Fisher Price ABC - 123
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Riots after big sports wins are caused by disgusting people acting in a disgusting manner. There is NO excuse for it. There is NO such thing as a "mob mentality". Each individual in that mob had a CHOICE to act as a civil human being or a thug. One or a few may start it, there is NO reason to follow. They riot because the WANT to riot, and should be held accountable for their actions with no regard given for "mob mentality".
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
There is NO such thing as a "mob mentality".
Actually there is. It's psychobabble for real, so u can understand how you would reject it.

Mob (or herd) mentality, describes how people are influenced by their peers to adopt certain behaviors, follow trends, even purchase items. Examples of the herd mentality include not only rioting, but stock market trends, superstition, home décor, and being gluten free.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Actually there is. It's psychobabble for real, so u can understand how you would reject it.

Mob (or herd) mentality, describes how people are influenced by their peers to adopt certain behaviors, follow trends, even purchase items. Examples of the herd mentality include not only rioting, but stock market trends, superstition, home décor, and being gluten free.

And I believe that everyone has total control over themselves. Each person is their own person and, at every turn in their lives, have a choice. ANYONE can control themselves, IF THEY WANT TOO! To say otherwise, removes much of the idea of personal responsibility.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Mob mentality doesn't absolve anyone of being responsible for their own actions.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Mob mentality doesn't absolve anyone of being responsible for their own actions.


It's just another excuse, nothing more. At every point, up to and during a riot, each individual had a choice: join or leave. Same can be said for every life choice. Long hair because everyone has it, or wear you hair how you feel comfortable. Smoke pot cause it's the thing to do, or don't because you choose not too. Buy a mini-mansion with 35 roofs, or a small ranch that suits your needs. Plant roses because the Jones's have them or plant nothing because all that stuff is a pain in the neck. The list is endless.

Everyone is faced with choices. They can choose to be weak and follow, or they can choose to follow their own path, maybe even lead. No one is FORCED to follow. It is always a personal choice.

Different schools of thought. I had psych profs that taught both. I farted off the "mob mentality" idea in school and still do. It is not logical for an individual to give up control for the idea of "acceptance".
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Mob mentality isn't an excuse. It's a description. Stock trends are a result of mob mentality, but each person is still responsible for their own trades. Rioting is a result of mob mentality, but each person is still responsible for their actions within the riot.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Any winning team whose citizens/fans mob and riot, setting fires, looting, destroying property and any of the usual extreme things done, should be ineligible for a playoff spot for several years. Perhaps that would be enough incentive for the mob to refrain.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Rangers fans are afraid of the Astros. Rangers fans travel to Houston and riot. Astros are banned from postseason play for several years. Mission accomplished.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Mob mentality isn't an excuse. It's a description. Stock trends are a result of mob mentality, but each person is still responsible for their own trades. Rioting is a result of mob mentality, but each person is still responsible for their actions within the riot.

It is ONLY a description of how some people are weak minded, and others are not. Rioting, the sports mob kind, is totally a result of disgusting people acting in a disgusting manner. Strong people, walk away. Those who rioted, WANTED to riot, and I contend, that they were either prone too, or often acted in a similar disgusting manner.

Have there not been cases of people being given lighter jail, or no jail, terms based on the "mob mentality" idea? :confused: I just woke up from my afternoon beauty nap and my mind is a bit fuzzy and can't recall where I read that at.

ANYWHO, I contend that people act how they want to act and mobs have little to do with it.

You have your school of thought, and I mine, both based, I am sure, on two different lifetimes of experience and different educations. It is unlikely you will convince me, or I you.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Any winning team whose citizens/fans mob and riot, setting fires, looting, destroying property and any of the usual extreme things done, should be ineligible for a playoff spot for several years. Perhaps that would be enough incentive for the mob to refrain.

The team cannot be blamed for the actions of a bunch of weak minded thugs. Jailing the thugs, regardless of age, sex, creed, gender orientation, national origin, color, or birth sign, would help.
 
Top