Hey, VP debates tonite

asjssl

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
How many adult citizens are going to have to DIE at the hands of the government to get this "Preventive Maintenance" so many seem to want? I am NOT going to pay ONE CENT in taxes if abortion is paid for with it. I hope that makes it clear.

Now, please explain, how is this "
Preventive Maintenance" going to be a CHOICE if I am going to be FORCED, likely at gun point, to pay for it? Why is it that NO one who believes in this type pf "Preventive Maintenance" will answer that question? Do you not believe that I would stand up for my beliefs at any cost? Are you willing to pay THAT price?


Of all things to quit paying your taxes over seems trivial...but okay your right..just as much is the right of people to have all the sex they want..all the kids they want and you get to pay for it if they so choose not too..

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LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
How did this conversation go from debating abortion to capitol punishment?
Did I miss something?
:confused:


Many, if not most, who promote abortion oppose capital punishment. It's a natural connection and question.



I really dont feel its murder at all..or it wouldnt be legal..
Im for capital punishment
And dont understand what you mean by sterilize.


Converting someone from alive to dead is murder when the victim is an innocent. It probably wouldn't be legal if it were called what it is and exposed for what it is and how it's done. Liberals find pretty ways to say things so people won't see them clearly and won't object. Baby murder... planned parenthood. Racial discrimination... affirmative action.

Sterilization. Eliminating any possibility of future pregnancy. Would you support a requirement of anyone getting an abortion that they also be sterilized so we don't repeat the cycle over and over? The same for welfare, sterilization as a requirement to eliminate the baby factories currently in operation for welfare increases.
 

xiggi

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Kinda funny obamacare is going to make the government hands on deciding who gets what care. Many of those who support it are the same people who shout keep your hands off my body when it comes to abortion. So is its hands on or hands off?

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layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Of all things to quit paying your taxes over seems trivial...but okay your right..just as much is the right of people to have all the sex they want..all the kids they want and you get to pay for it if they so choose not too..

Sent from my etch-a-sketch

Yes it IS my right. I BELIEVE that abortion is the KILLING of an innocent. In other words, targeting unborn human beings for DEATH. MURDER. I don't consider that TRIVIAL. It AMAZES me that some would believe that it is perfectly OKEE DOKEE to use FORCE to insure that I pay to kill innocents, something that even in my military days we took GREAT CARE to avoid and did NOT target children. How much force is OK in your eyes to MAKE me conform to YOUR ideas? Please explain how that makes me FREE or is Constitutional?
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I DO NOT have a problem with taxpayer funded abortions..

Preventive Maintenance..

Of all the things they do with OUR $$ this is what you get steamed about...


Sent from my etch-a-sketch

Where do you get "our" dollars from? In THIS country we have PRIVATE PROPERTY, which includes WAGES. In other words, there is no "OUR" money. NO ONE has a "RIGHT" to other's earnings. That is a purely MARXIST idea. ALL Marxist ideas 'steam' me. So do Marxists, they are the ENEMY of our Constitution.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Here is a link to just SOME of the stories of PEOPLE who SURVIVED an attempt on their LIVES. SOME of the stories come with pictures of the survivors. PLEASE to NOT follow this link if you are disturbed by REALITY!


Abortion Survivors
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Im glad the hard truth is funny to you.
Truth is stranger, and usually funnier, than fiction.

Did we really have to resort to the Hitler analogy?
It's inevitable. Godwin's law

So asjssl

Are you for or against capital punishment?

Would you support requiring sterilization as a condition for murder (abortion)?

Would you support sterilization of the father as a condition for murder (abortion)?

Are you even capable of acknowledging abortion is murder?

That's the epitome of the religious right, the insatiable need to tell other people what they can and cannot do, what they can and cannot think, and how they can and cannot live their lives, not to mention the redefining of accepted terms. Like it or don't, you have to allow for free will.

On the flip side we have the epitome of the liberal left with this:
I DO NOT have a problem with taxpayer funded abortions..
...where someone can be so fast and loose and free with Other People's Money. You spend your money how you want, and leave mine alone, thank you very much. Having me pay for someone else's wants and perceived needs (like condoms and birth control pills) is bad enough, but having me pay for someone else's abortion is an absolute stark outrage.


The problem is the redefining of terms. Many people, the religious right in particular, want to just chuck the dictionary of human history and understanding and redefine terms as they see fit, so that they fit their beliefs and agenda. They want to redefine fetus and zygote to mean the same thing as child, baby, infant or person. They want to dismiss the very real difference between conceived and born, be it a baby or an idea, and make conceived and unborn indistinguishable from born, despite the Bible itself making such a distinction. As the Supreme Courted once noted, at this point in the development of man's knowledge, with those trained in the respective disciplines of medicine, philosophy, and theology being unable to arrive at any consensus on the question of whether personhood begins at conception, birth, or at some point in between, don't for a minute think you have the singular knowledge to know for sure one way or the other, 'cause you don't.

If your morality believes that abortion is murder, then clearly you should not engage in abortion. If your morality insists that those who engage in abortion are guilty of committing murder, then that same morality dictates that you must either do everything in your power, including physical confrontation, to prevent such murder, or failing that, you must mete out justice by punishing those who engage in such murder. You cannot have it both ways.

But there is a difference between what is illegal and in what someone's moral interpretation of what it wrong. Society at large determines what is and is not legal, of what is right and wrong, regardless of an individual's morality. Often the two are the same, but often they are not. Abortion itself has been wrong, and illegal, for only a very small percentage of civilized human society. Those who thing it's wrong now and has always been wrong need to take a close look at why more than 2000 years of Christianity said is was perfectly fine, and less than 100 years of it said abortion was wrong. What makes you so special that you are able to recognize something as being morally wrong that 2000 years of Christianity failed to see? That's a tougher question than you think it is.

The fact is, unless or until people are perfect, they need to get off their high horse and quit telling others how to think, live and act beyond the legal and moral standards of society. The only person who should make a decision about having a baby or getting an abortion is the one who is pregnant, with the only exception that being the limited weighted contribution by the one who got her that way. The reality is, it's very difficult to conceive and carry to term a child. The vast majority of pregnancies are aborted pregnancies (miscarriage, if it makes you feel better, but an abortion is nothing more than an induced miscarriage) without the mother even knowing she's pregnant. Knowing how difficult it is to just conceive, one shouldn't be so hasty to get an abortion, I think.

Did you know that in the US during the decade of the 1930s, licensed physicians performed an estimate 800,000 abortions annually. That was when the population was 122 million. We now have 311 million, or thereabouts, and the number of abortions are actually on the decline. In 2008, in a population of 300 million, approximately 1.21 million abortions were performs, down from an estimated 1.29 million in 2002, 1.31 million in 2000 and 1.36 million in 1996. From 1973 through 2008, nearly 50 million legal abortions have occurred in the U.S. For the same period, the number worldwide is 1,260,000,000 (1.26 billion) abortions performed.

In areas of high Islamic faith, like the Middle East and North African, abortion is either outright forbidden or heavily restricted to the point where you can count on one hand how many are performed annually. Even in the case of the health of the mother, these Islamic regions will generally simply let the mother and the unborn child die rather than abort the pregnancy. It's Allah's will. Sounds familiar.

Incidentally, in Nazi Germany, if the mother was of German stock, an abortion under any circumstance was specifically and strictly prohibited. Abortions for the "hereditarily ill" were readily available, however.

Abortions, as disgusting as they may be, are a part of humanity, and likely have been since people first made the connection with a growing belly and popping one out of the oven. It can be traced back in writing to 2700 BC, where it's been widely performed since at least that time.
 
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layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Which is WHY I DON'T use FORCE to push MY side of this argument. The immoral left ALWAYS uses force to push theirs. I also say that this is NOT a Federal issue, but a State issue. Then, if the state I lived in choose to make this legal again, I would not be FORCED to pay for it as a REQUIREMENT of citizenship. IF it is done by the Feds it WILL be forced as part of being a U.S. citizen.

As to 'mixing' terms, which translation of fetus do you use? I like the "Little one" translation. From the Latin.

EVERY survivor of abortion attempts are now human. Must have started that way. Can one even imagine KNOWING that 'mommy dearest' tried to have you killed?
 
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