Here's To The 99 Percenters........

[dieseldiva]

This isn't about you. Believe it or not, not everything is. It's not even about your sons. /QUOTE]

Don't be ridiculous, and don't patronize me.

Nowhere in the original response was it stated that SOME in the military were doing these things. When one doesn't specify, I tend to take offense on my children's behalf......both of my sons AND my daughter....your assumption wasn't correct.

You really think any & every criticism of the military is directed at your family members? I'm sorry, but it isn't, any more than criticism of police is insulting to my uncle [Cleveland PD Detective], or criticism of 'gold digging' women is insulting to me - I understand that generalizations don't apply to every single person, and you know it too.

No one said they were all angels....but if you read Rlent's post without an opinion of your own, you would think that NONE were good.

Since you specified 'without an opinion of your own', that can't possibly apply to anyone here.....
We know there are good & bad in EVERY group of people, and it's unrealistic to pretend there aren't. Heck, there's even some pretty disgusting truck drivers! But we also know we aren't them, so it's something we want to work on improving, not deny it exists.

How much time have your daughters spent serving their country? If they haven't then I don't think you can understand, sorry.

 

[Turtle]

Let me see if I can make you understand. I made the original post and his post was in answer to what I posted,

It was in response to what you posted, but it was in direct response to the words written on that piece of paper in the picture, not to you. If you want to take ownership of those words because you agree with them (is that what "this about sums it up means? I don't know).

coupled with he and everyone else who's been here any amount of time knows that I have kids in the military.

Well, I didn't get the memo, and I admit that I don't read everything you write, but I had no idea whatsoever that you have (or had) kids in the military. Doesn't make any difference, tho, except that you are clearly more defensive and sensitive to the issue.

Maybe you should try and look at it from a different side of the fence and consider that what Pilgrim said just might be true. Maybe it really could have been intentional crap stirring.

Imagine that.............

And the picture posted wasn't crap stirring? What Pilgrim said was true, to a point. What RLENT said was true, to a point. But the real truth is somewhere in between, where the military does some good, and some bad.

 

[RLENT]

Let me see if I can make you understand.

Let me see if I can make you understand:

My response was directed solely to what was written on the paper in the image in the OP.

I made the original post and his post was in answer to what I posted,

Factually, I could care less that it was you made the post .....

That's why my post addressed only what was written on the paper.

coupled with he and everyone else who's been here any amount of time knows that I have kids in the military.

That is certainly not my fault .....

Maybe you should try and look at it from a different side of the fence and consider that what Pilgrim said just might be true.

Not that you would want to possibly do similar with regards to the sentiments that I expressed .....

Sacred cows much ?

Maybe it really could have been intentional crap stirring.

.... said the person hurling large boulders at the glass house ....

Imagine that.............

Yeah ..... imagine .....

 

[dieseldiva]

And the picture posted wasn't crap stirring?

Now there ya go......how many "crap stirring" comments have you made about that "facepalm" pic that shows up on a regular basis?? Hmmm

 

[Pilgrim]

Maybe it really could have been intentional crap stirring.

Imagine that.............

..... exporting butchery, murder, rape, death, and destruction to the peoples of the world ....
...... great benefits ......
... like the freedom to act immorally, with impunity, often with little or no consequences whatsoever .... and to be worshipped for it .....

If these had been isolated comments that just popped up for the first time in this forum they might have been taken differently. But this has been an ongoing pattern that goes beyond the boundaries of common decency for the sole purpose of trashing the people of the military, past and present. I'll say again - this is also trolling and it's done for the purpose of stirring up cr*p and baiting someone to respond from a point of outrage. I don't know if there's anything in the COC that addresses trolling - but if it's not there it should be.

 

[Turtle]

Now there ya go......how many "crap stirring" comments have you made about that "facepalm" pic that shows up on a regular basis?? Hmmm

Twelve, I think.

 

[Turtle]

If these had been isolated comments that just popped up for the first time in this forum they might have been taken differently. But this has been an ongoing pattern that goes beyond the boundaries of common decency for the sole purpose of trashing the people of the military, past and present. I'll say again - this is also trolling and it's done for the purpose of stirring up cr*p and baiting someone to respond from a point of outrage. I don't know if there's anything in the COC that addresses trolling - but if it's not there it should be.

Despite me very likely having the most tolerance for free speech, I have the least tolerance for trolling of anyone here of the admins and moderators. What RLENT posted my be offensive to those sensitive to the issue, but it ain't trolling, any more than those who post about far right or far left positions, or religion, or abortion is trolling. Just because you disagree with something does not make it trolling. The fact is, our military is not perfect, and is primarily used by those in power for things other than defense. And it doesn't take much research to realize that, either. You do have to be willing to do the research, however.

 

[tbubster]

Originally Posted by RLENT
..... 1% of the 99% that has a steady job .....

..... exporting butchery, murder, rape, death, and destruction to the peoples of the world ....

...... great benefits ......

... like the freedom to act immorally, with impunity, often with little or no consequences whatsoever .... and to be worshipped for it .....

.... lots of room for promotion .....

..... so I can supervise and direct others in the above ..... perhaps rising to great heights, similar to many others that have gone before me ....

.... that decided to work hard and sacrifice .....

..... others to bloodlust and greed of the American people .......

Yeah .... lots to admire there ....

He knew exactly what he was writing when he made the post he also knew how people would respond.I belive this is why he posted it.Look at what he writes then finshs with Yeah .... lots to admire there ....
As far as personal attacks go Rlent does this every time he calls some one a name when they disagree with him.Just like in this thread.He is the first one to call someone a windbag.Yet no one is talking to him about personal attacks?????????????When he talks down to some one and implys they are stupid because they disagree with him that is a personal attack.As another has said this is trolling.You gotta love that IGNORE



As far as people not knowing about the spitters well here you go.I remember my step dad telling how he was spit on by a woman when he came home.

Vietnam Veterans Spit On, part 2

from the EO Code of Conduct page.

5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is the word used to describe a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting the members of the forum community. Posts of this nature are disruptive and serve no purpose and subject to immediate
removal.

 

[Turtle]

As far as personal attacks go Rlent does this every time he calls some one a name when they disagree with him.Just like in this thread.He is the first one to call someone a windbag.Yet no one is talking to him about personal attacks?????????????

You have to pay more attention. His windbag comment was in direct response to a personal attack.

When he talks down to some one and implys they are stupid because they disagree with him that is a personal attack.

Well, no, it's not that he's implying they are stupid, he's implying they are saying stupid things. There's a difference.

 

[Turtle]

On a separate note, you can't try and use "trolling" as a catch-all to try and silence those you disagree with. That smacks of Obama.

 

[dieseldiva]

On a separate note, you can't try and use "trolling" as a catch-all to try and silence those you disagree with. That smacks of Obama.

Maybe we should all switch over to intimidation and humiliation instead.

That smacks of.......oh wait, never mind.

 

[tbubster]

You have to pay more attention. His windbag comment was in direct response to a personal attack.


Intent was calling out a windbag from BRISCO

...also, a personal attack. You should have addressed what he said, rather than trying to call him out.Soon as you called him out, it's personal. from YOU

From your post #30 so brisco calling RLENT a windbag is personal attact but not the other way around?????


Well, no, it's not that he's implying they are stupid, he's implying they are saying are saying stupid things. There's a difference.

Maybe you need to pay more attention to what RLENT is writting in his replys to people he does that very thing.Every time people disagree on here they call each other out.

 

[Turtle]

Maybe you need to pay more attention to what RLENT is writting in his replys to people he does that very thing.Every time people disagree on here they call each other out.

Any way I respond to that is going to be inferred by you or someone that I'm implying that you're stupid. So I won't. I do, however, pay close attention to what I read, regardless of who wrote it.

 

[Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by RLENT
..... 1% of the 99% that has a steady job .....

..... exporting butchery, murder, rape, death, and destruction to the peoples of the world ....

...... great benefits ......

... like the freedom to act immorally, with impunity, often with little or no consequences whatsoever .... and to be worshipped for it .....

.... lots of room for promotion .....

..... so I can supervise and direct others in the above ..... perhaps rising to great heights, similar to many others that have gone before me ....

.... that decided to work hard and sacrifice .....

..... others to bloodlust and greed of the American people .......

Yeah .... lots to admire there ....

He knew exactly what he was writing when he made the post he also knew how people would respond.I belive this is why he posted it.Look at what he writes then finshs with Yeah .... lots to admire there ....
As far as personal attacks go Rlent does this every time he calls some one a name when they disagree with him.Just like in this thread.He is the first one to call someone a windbag.Yet no one is talking to him about personal attacks?????????????When he talks down to some one and implys they are stupid because they disagree with him that is a personal attack.As another has said this is trolling.You gotta love that IGNORE



As far as people not knowing about the spitters well here you go.I remember my step dad telling how he was spit on by a woman when he came home.

Vietnam Veterans Spit On, part 2

from the EO Code of Conduct page.

5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is the word used to describe a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting the members of the forum community. Posts of this nature are disruptive and serve no purpose and subject to immediate
removal.

Well, there ya go. Compare that paragraph with the first two statements about "butcher, rape..." and "the freedom to act immorally with impunity..." If the shoe fits, we know where it goes. Of course the first statement is complete hogwash; taking isolated incidents, unsubstantiated allegations and other charges leveled at a tiny percentage of the millions of men and women in uniform and applying them to the body as a whole is not only absurd, but also displays an astounding ignorance of what the military is all about. Combining that with "the freedom to act immorally..." implies that any and all soldiers can and do go about their aforementioned barbarian ways as they run amok throughout the world. This is not just a gross exaggeration, it's an outright lie that's worded to be as inflammatory as possible.

Disagreeing with the politics that often dictate our military missions is one thing; but those statements are directed to disparaging the integrity of the individual soldiers - and it's not the first time we've seen it.

 

[RLENT]

If these had been isolated comments that just popped up for the first time in this forum they might have been taken differently.

Oh yeah, I can really see that happening ..... not ....

But this has been an ongoing pattern that goes beyond the boundaries of common decency for the sole purpose of trashing the people of the military, past and present.

Based on your two comments above, your argument is self-defeating:

I have a long record here of being anti-war, anti-violence, anti-state, and anti-imperialism .... therefore, it is not as though the positions I hold, and publicly voice, are foreign to anyone here, nor are they out of character .....

Liberty ..... allowing someone to hold, and speak, their political opinions is really a great thing ain't it ?

Except of course, when one's sacred cows are being gored .... and ya just gotta shut 'em up ....

BTW, I have to say that your finding of mere speech to be "beyond the bounds of common decency" to be itself utterly ludicrous ... particularly given the fact that the subject matter of the speech in question was the crimes, injustice, and atrocities of war against the formerly living.... things which some, perhaps you among them, seem to be all too inclined to willingly ignore ..... ...

But then, I can't say that, in your case, I'm really surprised either .... you largely prove an earlier point.

I'll say again - this is also trolling and it's done for the purpose of stirring up cr*p and baiting someone to respond from a point of outrage.

You can say it until the cows come home - that doesn't mean it is true

BTW - exactly who are you to say what my purposes might be ?

Whether anyone is outraged and allows themselves to lose control is always, and entirely, their choice to make ....

I can't count the number of times I have been outraged by things that some have posted in the SoapBox (I'd call some of it utter, mindless filth) ..... it has been, often is, a daily occurrence ....

If I feel the necessity to personally address something that someone has said, I do it by speaking out and commenting on the post .... and let the chips fall where they may ....

 

[RLENT]

Well, there ya go. Compare that paragraph with the first two statements about "butcher, rape..." and "the freedom to act immorally with impunity..."

So that I might utilize my time wisely, which of the items listed therein, are you disputing happening - and are in need of documentation of ?

Butchery ?

Murder ?

Rape ?

Death ?

Destruction ?

Of course the first statement is complete hogwash; taking isolated incidents, unsubstantiated allegations and other charges leveled at a tiny percentage of the millions of men and women in uniform and applying them to the body as a whole is not only absurd, but also displays an astounding ignorance of what the military is all about.

Oh Great Constructor of Strawmen .... where exactly did I apply them to the body as a whole ?

Or was it the case that that was something you inferred .... rather than something I actually implied ?

My comments were in reply to, and directed at, what was written by a single individual.

Of course, as a matter of fact, there are a number of individuals that they would indeed apply to, quite specifically.

Combining that with "the freedom to act immorally..." implies that any and all soldiers can and do go about their aforementioned barbarian ways as they run amok throughout the world. This is not just a gross exaggeration, it's an outright lie that's worded to be as inflammatory as possible.

Again, educate yourself about the difference between implied and inferred ....

BTW, whatever happened to those guys mowing down civilians (including children) in that Wikileaks Apache gunship video ?

Held to account .... or not ?

After you answer that one, I have a few more for the quiz ....

Disagreeing with the politics that often dictate our military missions is one thing; but those statements are directed to disparaging the integrity of the individual soldiers

They are directed to disparaging the integrity of certain, specific individual soldiers .... and those in the chain of command who allow it to happen, try to brush it under the rug, or fail to exact justice for crimes committed .....

and it's not the first time we've seen it.

.... and it probably wont be the last .....

 

[witness23]

Personally, I think a certain moderator should recommend that the thread be closed, or stay out of it, because that certain moderator is looking very hypocritical and isn't doing himself any favors and making matters worse.

Anywho.

One thing that stuck out to me in this soldiers note to the OWS protesters is the part where he writes, "I will be paid to go to college and graduate with a guaranteed position making a decent salary"

Now, unless he decides to stay in the military after he graduates that's one thing, but if he were to leave the military I have news for ya bro, there are no guarantees. I don't know what his plans are, but if he thinks anything is guaranteed to him because he served in the Military, especially a job with a decent salary, he is guilty of the very thing he is accusing the OWS people of. Entitlement.

It would seem that this soldier may be as ill-informed as many are in here about what exactly the OWS protests are about. But that's a whole 'nother topic.

Maybe he saw that video of that woman saying average citizens should have the right to print their own money

 

[greg334]

Witness, you brought up a good point.

One thing when I read the note is first he isn't well informed about the issues others face but overall the problem isn't with the note, it is with the idea that he is expecting the same thing that those others are expecting.

I don't know who the guy is, just because he wears a uniform means little to me unless there is a clear indication he is in a combat zone which then he has my support but outside of that, a paid education, a job when you complete that education and so on just because you volunteered is one in the same as those who are protesting and that is where we need to understand the difference.

 

[Brisco]

They are fighting a religious and political war for the benefit of those in power. The pawns are being used well, indeed........

Your "opinion" only....which is not doing much good in this thread, especially when you are in a position to be controlling the thread, not adding fuel to the fire........

Don't be ridiculous, and don't patronize me.

No one said they were all angels....but if you read Rlent's post without an opinion of your own, you would think that NONE were good.

Again....refer to sentence above......

Maybe you should try and look at it from a different side of the fence and consider that what Pilgrim said just might be true. Maybe it really could have been intentional crap stirring.

Quite impossible now that he has thrown himself, as well as his opinions, into this whole ordeal.......

IMO, he should recuse himself as a "Moderator" in this thread and let another Moderator handle everything else that comes forth. By his own admission, his "moderating" status is no longer valued here........

Despite me very likely having the most tolerance for free speech, I have the least tolerance for trolling of anyone here of the admins and moderators.

Explain.......

IMO, you still have a LOT to learn when it comes to properly moderating an online/open discussion board.

Personally, I think a certain moderator should recommend that the thread be closed, or stay out of it, because that certain moderator is looking very hypocritical and isn't doing himself any favors and making matters worse.

Best quote here so far with concerns to HOW this thread has been handled......

And, it came from witness....... ( )


I'm done here....... Open invitation to RL is still on the table.....

If what I said above towards a certain moderator gets me a time out, so be it. He does need to go jump in the lake for all I care over this, cause he certainly aint gonna close this thread. He's got too much vested here to be neutral.....

Maybe Ken, Dave, Dale, or even Lawrence will step in and do the right thing.

 

[Pilgrim]

"I will be paid to go to college and graduate with a guaranteed position making a decent salary"

We have no way of knowing for sure what he's talking about, but it sounds like he's decided to make a career of the military. There are programs available that provide exactly what he says - but these guys are contracted to continue service in the armed forces in exchange for their education. A friend of mine got his dental school paid for under that agreement, and came out as an officer. However, he was obligated to be an Army dentist for something like four years after he graduated. There may be similar deals available from defense contractors and private companies as well.