Goodbye "Don't ask. Don't tell."

[Pilgrim]

You can bet your last tax dollar that in the US, the govt will set the rules if they provide the funding. You have to look no further than the VA hospitals to see evidence of this. It will be a panel of GOVT. APPOINTED doctors and administrators, and those administrators will be career govt bureaucrats. They will decide who will get the health care and what it will be. See what they're doing to the financial institutions and the auto businesses right now? See how they managed Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae - how about efficiency and profitability of the Postal Service? How cost efficient do you think the IRS is? We don't want these guys controlling our health care - they're screwing up too many other things already.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Agreed Pilgrim....I can't think of one government run company that isn't messed up....or service for that matter...

Your VA comparison is very compelling....Federal healthcare...under funded and not run properly. Fine example of politicians governing health care.

 

[LDB]

There are doctors in my family so I have a little bit of insight, as well as some physician friends. One couldn't get into a U.S. medical school and went to the Caribbean for training. There is a definite difference in the quality.

 

[pjjjjj]

Corporations would have to contribute a % of gross payroll as in Canada...in my small company it was 2.3% of gross payroll....the bigger the company the smaller the %.

That is completely backwards. The bigger the corporation, the more they will pay. And anyone can call me whatever they wish, but I am all for taxing huge corporations over taxing the little guy trying to put food on his table for his family. The huge corporations are making their profits on the labor performed by the little guys, usually for peanuts. It's the least they can do.

Most employers in Ontario qualify for an exemption on the first $400,000 per year paid out in wages, meaning only companies who are paying out over $400,000 in wages in any given year are subject to paying this tax for our healthcare. As well, self employed people are not required to pay this tax on their self employed income.

Tax Rates for Corporations
Current tax rates (effective from January 1, 1990)
Total Annual Ontario Remuneration Rate
up to $200k 0.98%
over 200k - 230k 1.101%
over 230k - 260k 1.223%
over 260k - 290k 1.344%
over 290k - 320k 1.465%
over 320k - 350k 1.586%
over 350k - 380k 1.708%
over 380k - 400k 1.829%
over 400k 1.95%

Note: Most employers are exempt on the first $400000 in payroll, but some are not, mostly government employers.

I'm not sure what other provinces do, this is for ON only.

In my lifetime, I have not experienced, nor have I known anyone directly who has experienced what I felt to be inferior healthcare. I'm sure such experiences have existed for some, but I'm sure they also exist in the USA.

 

[pjjjjj]

There are doctors in my family so I have a little bit of insight, as well as some physician friends. One couldn't get into a U.S. medical school and went to the Caribbean for training. There is a definite difference in the quality.

Are Caribbean credentials recognized and accepted for doctors to practice in the USA?

 

[LDB]

I think it was Caribbean. Wherever it was it was offshore. It is accepted here but not what I want from my doctor.

 

[LDB]

And anyone can call me whatever they wish, but I am all for taxing huge corporations over taxing the little guy trying to put food on his table for his family. The huge corporations are making their profits on the labor performed by the little guys, usually for peanuts. It's the least they can do.

Who is that "huge corporation" exactly? The last time I checked, Acme Widgets took the amount of taxes they'd have to pay, divided by the number of widgets they'd sell, and got the tax per widget. That amount was factored into the selling price of the widgets. The "huge corporation" Acme Widgets paid/pays nothing in taxes. The "little guys" making peanuts pay the taxes when they purchase the widgets. Either that or the folks over at Universal Assemblers pay the tax when they buy the widgets to include in their gizmos. They then factor it into their COGS and the consumer pays the tax. All taxes are inevitably paid by working individuals just the same as all "entitlements" which generally nobody is entitled to and all other government "free" programs and handouts.

 

[Moot]

If a few "good doctors" are in just for the money and can't stand a single payer system they are more than welcome to go somewhere else, in a few months we could have them replaced with qualified foreign doctors willing to come here to practice and fulfill the indispensable role of medicine provider, maybe we could even get house calls back!!

When Papa Doc and Baby Doc come here to practice medicine who will care for the people of Haiti? Who do voodoo?

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Who is that "huge corporation" exactly? The last time I checked, Acme Widgets took the amount of taxes they'd have to pay, divided by the number of widgets they'd sell, and got the tax per widget. That amount was factored into the selling price of the widgets. The "huge corporation" Acme Widgets paid/pays nothing in taxes. The "little guys" making peanuts pay the taxes when they purchase the widgets. Either that or the folks over at Universal Assemblers pay the tax when they buy the widgets to include in their gizmos. They then factor it into their COGS and the consumer pays the tax. All taxes are inevitably paid by working individuals just the same as all "entitlements" which generally nobody is entitled to and all other government "free" programs and handouts.

Leo..you got it....there is nothing free about free health care....

 

[LDB]

Yes, I actually do get it unlike some. I'm thankful for clear eyed and clear minded parents.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

pay me now or pay me later.........if they'd only fine tune the system down here it would work quite well.....

For those who champion FREE health care....

Whats the difference if YOU pay monthly premiums say $200 a month and pick your care OR pay out $200 more in taxes and someone else chooses your care?

 

[LDB]

Whats the difference if YOU pay monthly premiums say $200 a month and pick your care OR pay out $200 more in taxes and someone else chooses your care?

YOU lose the control of it. You lose your choices. The liberals are all about freedom of choice when it's whether to murder unborn babies but not when it comes to healthcare for the already born.

 

[Steady Eddie]

Thanks Eddie man, I really appreciate your help. I'll post the picture it right away, thanks again...

​

I would bet, if you are old enough. That you spat on the returning vetnam vet, and called him baby killer. Jane "Founder" your hero?

 

[MrGautama]

Is it just me, or is it a fact that the individuals who advocate universal health care to be provided by our govt. are the same ones who complain most about the sorry state of health care provided to our military by this same govt?

Mmm... nah..., We are the ones that argue that paying more per capita than any other country in the world for heath care and getting some of the worst service among industrialized nations (and some non-industrialized also) is ridiculous.

The aging flower children complaining about the war-related profits of private companies should be packed into a time machine and sent back to 1943. There they could protest the corporations whose war-related profits pulled our country out of the Great Depression.

The ones that pulled us out of the great depression were the workers in your sanctified corporations.

They could also hand out their absurd posters, ridicule our troops, call them "baby killers" and spit on them as they return from Europe and the Pacific (just picture that in your mind's eye - wonder how that would have gone over back then?). Granted, there actually were a few peaceniks during that era but they were appropriately ignored by the media.

Why would I spit on the very troops that defeated Fascism?, I consider them, as they have become known, “The Greatest Generation”; they are the folks who grew up during the depression, fought the war against the biggest 'real' enemy freedom has ever seen, and rebuilt the industrial complex and the country after the war. Sorry to disappoint you but those folks are heroes to me.

 

[MrGautama]

So your claim is that the govt. is more efficient than private companies?
For a contrary opinion, see this study:

http://www.cahi.org/cahi_contents/resources/pdf/CAHI_Medicare_Admin_Final_Publication.pdf

You have to be kidding me!!, First of all that is not a study, it's just a piece of propaganda; of course they think Universal Health Care is a bad idea... They are the insurance companies currently profiteering from our health money!!. CAHI even figures in the “Front Groups Portal” in Sourcewatch.

"The Council for Affordable Health Insurance (CAHI) is an association of small and mid-sized insurance companies, actuarial firms, legislative consultants, physicians and insurance agents, its website states."

Front Group: “an organization that purports to represent one agenda while in reality it serves some other interest whose sponsorship is hidden or rarely mentioned -- typically, a corporate or government sponsor.”

Can't you see how this people are using you?

You want have yourself and your family treated by some physician trained in the Carribean or Peru? Be my guest.

After over 2 decades living abroad I've seen more 3rd world doctors than American ones, I've seen a Peruvian doctor but not a Caribbean one but would be really happy to consult a Cuban doctor any day.
As for now I can tell you that my wife and I cross the border with Mexico to get all our medical needs; there is a wonderful hospital in Nuevo Laredo that has nothing to envy its US counterparts and get our annual exams there. Also there is another small town across where we get our dental work done, same kind state of the art equipment and service as here; the difference is the price: full porcelain crowns $200, endodontia $150, fillings $50 (Anyone interested in the dental or medical info PM me). So all that fear-mongering about the big bad foreign doctors is just non-sense for anyone that has been outside of the fishbowl.

 

[MrGautama]

For those who champion FREE health care....

Whats the difference if YOU pay monthly premiums say $200 a month and pick your care OR pay out $200 more in taxes and someone else chooses your care?

There is no such thing as free health care. I am going to tell you the difference, with Universal Health Care you have:

-no more 46,000,000 uninsured Americans
-no more 50,000,000 under-insured Americans
-no more lagging behind in life expectancy, infant mortality, and preventable deaths
-no more 22,000 yearly deaths for lack of medical insurance
-no more 1,000,000 bankruptcies a year for folks that can't pay their medical bills.


Are these good enough reasons?

 

[layoutshooter]

No, they are not good reasons. I want you to PROVE all those numbers. I want to know WHERE they came from, the methodology used to derive them, the accuracy of them etc. Of the so-called 46 million, how many CHOOSE not to buy it? How many are in-between policies? How long have they been without? Can you prove any of it? I doubt it, but you are welcome to try. You are NOT allowed to use any source that the Dumb-Op-Crats or the Re-Bum-Li-Cans use. No government numbers or sources since they tend to be very biased. No college studies as they are very biased as well. Totally un-biased, no axe to grind, numbers that can be audited by independent sources.

 

[MrGautama]

No, they are not good reasons. I want you to PROVE all those numbers. I want to know WHERE they came from, the methodology used to derive them, the accuracy of them etc. Of the so-called 46 million, how many CHOOSE not to buy it? How many are in-between policies? How long have they been without? Can you prove any of it? I doubt it, but you are welcome to try. You are NOT allowed to use any source that the Dumb-Op-Crats or the Re-Bum-Li-Cans use. No government numbers or sources since they tend to be very biased. No college studies as they are very biased as well. Totally un-biased, no axe to grind, numbers that can be audited by independent sources.

Well, I guess that the only source left at my disposal would be Faux News... The Only True American News Agency!!

 

[layoutshooter]

Sorry Bubba, that don't work either. I do NOT trust the numbers you posted. I do NOT trust any governent, college or U.N. numbers and frankly, I just don't trust you!! I have no idea who or what you are or where you really come from. You are either here to bait people and cause trouble or you really believe in the swill you put out. Either way I have no use for you at all.

Now that I got that off my chest, what kind of truck are you driving? What carrier are you with? What kind of mileage to you get? You know, important stuff.

 

[MrGautama]

Now that I got that off my chest, what kind of truck are you driving? What carrier are you with? What kind of mileage to you get? You know, important stuff.

So you can compile a nice dossier of all my posts here, forward them to another fundamentalist in my carrier with a nice note stating how dangerous is to have a radical like me handling hazmat and sensitive government shipments across the country?... no thanks, I like my job!.

Check this link if you are so interested:
Old Post