Goodbye "Don't ask. Don't tell."

aristotle · May 18, 2009

cheri1122 said:
You miss the point: the poster insults the US government, not the troops. [The troops do not make official policy, but they must enforce it.]
Looks as if you support freedom of speech only as long as it agrees with your opinion, huh?

You however, have violated the EO terms of participation with your personal attack.

Cheri...the poster MrG is using is an exact copy of Nazi-style propaganda used during WW2. MrG has replaced the Nazi insignia on the shoulder patch with the American flag. It is indefensible. What's next for MrG's gallery? Perhaps he will display Robert Mapplethorpe's Greatest Hits. Or a crucifix displayed in urine. MrG aka Letzrock is a hateful, spiteful provocateur who delights in spewing hateful images.

I can only imagine how EO sponsors and advertisers will react when they see this vile anti-American portrayal of our military men and women. I know you hold a personal grudge with me, that's fine.

If EO allows MrG's hate-filled images to stand, they won't have to ban me, I will disassociate myself from this website voluntarily. It is appalling to watch these moderators cower from such filth.

cheri1122 · May 18, 2009

As 'objectors' never become a part of the troops, my point stands: troops enforce policy, but do not make it.
Mr G's poster does not insult the troops, but the government, which the rest of us do on a daily basis, lol.
The abortion argument will have to be held in another thread - this one's knotty enough!

layoutshooter · May 18, 2009

Ther have been "objectors" get OUT of the active military. It is VERY rare but it does happen. I admire the courage they show. It is not a easy thing to do. I will not comment on G's pic for the reasons I sent you in that PM. As the the abortion, it is best we never try to argue that one. My convictions are my own and will never change. For the sake of civility I will leave it at that. WOW!! VERY mature of me for a change !!!

cheri1122 · May 18, 2009

aristotle said:
Cheri...the poster MrG is using is an exact copy of Nazi-style propaganda used during WW2. MrG has replaced the Nazi insignia on the shoulder patch with the American flag. It is indefensible. What's next for MrG's gallery? Perhaps he will display Robert Mapplethorpe's Greatest Hits. Or a crucifix displayed in urine. MrG aka Letzrock is a hateful, spiteful provocateur who delights in spewing hateful images.
It cannot surprise you that some feel our government is engaging in empire building with it's choice of targets, which is what the poster conveys. Linking that to Robert Mapplethorpe is quite a stretch, really.

I can only imagine how EO sponsors and advertisers will react when they see this vile anti-American portrayal of our military men and women. I know you hold a personal grudge with me, that's fine.
Personal grudge? You give yourself too much credit, Aristotle - I disagree on many political subjects with a lot of folks, many of whom are friends. I don't take the debates personally, ok?

If EO allows MrG's hate-filled images to stand, they won't have to ban me, I will disassociate myself from this website voluntarily. It is appalling to watch these moderators cower from such filth.

I've read a LOT of vile hate filled statements here, and have never asked for censorship of what I don't like. Instead, I exercise my freedom of speech to state my beliefs - it's what the Soapbox is about.
I disagree with what you say, sir, but will defend to the death your right to say it [and then I'll argue against what you said, naturally.] THAT's what freedom of speech means to me.

aristotle · May 18, 2009

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

greg334 · May 18, 2009

MrGautama said:
-Tom and Jenny: Well I think that's up to them, anyway isn't that a daily occurrence in the Appalachians already?

So we return to this as it was in the 1960's, pointing out a mere myth and describing people in a demeaning and stereotypical manner.

I thought you were trying to be righteous in being a progressive but again you have seemed to slip into the typical liberal "I know better than you do so shut up" attitude. This was part of the propaganda used to justify the great society, we must pull our wretched brethren out of the deeps of debauchery by these programs - all directed towards the "backward people of the Appalachians" to let them fulfill better lives based on someone else's standard.

it leads not to equality but to subjugation of women, abandonment of male children, and abuse of the welfare system among other things.

Didn't the enlightened among us, you know the liberals/progressives do this to our society?

The Great Society was to eliminate the poverty, the fatherless children and so on but it did lead to a form of subjugation of women and the abandonment of the male figure (children too) in the family and wholesale abuse of the welfare system through a series of laws to lift people up that flawed right from the start.

My position is clear, the choice is between equal rights for all citizens or discrimination for minorities.

So you choose discrimination through a stereotypical comment based on your Tom and Jenny reply?

Does this mean Buddha you are indeed the enlighten one of the bunch?

LDB · May 18, 2009

That picture insults the U.S. government. It insults the troops. It insults the population at large. It says the troops are nothing but Nazis by their own choice of service in that army. It says the population is no better than a Nazi population for allowing the government to devolve to that point. No, it isn't insulting to only the government. I'm sorry for anyone unable to see that.

OntarioVanMan · May 18, 2009

Who ever supposedly doctored the picture did a real good job....because the helmets are American as well....

And those are French troops...the flag is French...

Top pic is the Phillipines circa 1943....bottom is German same circa...guy in the middle sure looks menacing...

cheri1122 · May 18, 2009

Sadly, I think we HAVE devolved to the point where we don't have a clue what our government is really doing. Not with our tax money, or with their wars. Between 'national security' and just plain apathy, they don't tell the truth, and we don't demand it.
I don't feel the poster insults the troops, who serve their country's stated goals - I just don't believe everything the governments says is truth.
Sure, it's a stretch to equate the government with Nazi Germany, but it's not the furthest stretch of logic I've read here, by a long...well, stretch.

layoutshooter · May 18, 2009

I don't know about you Cheri, but, most Americans don't want to know that truth about what has gone on or what is going on. They would not recognize the truth if it slapped them in the face and most likely could not handle it if they did recognize it. The "truth" is my career was far far scary than you could EVER imagine. As I have stated before, it took over 3 years after I quit for the nightmares to stop. Mrs. Layoutshooter was very happy that they finally did. She was really getting tired of me beating on her in my sleep. Lucky for her that when you hit in your sleep you have 0 power!!! It was that bad.

chefdennis · May 18, 2009

Hmmm Brown coats, oh wait it was "Brown Shirts" the german youth that hilter took control of wore, my bad......... all of the things already pointed out , the "brown" coats, the whole thing is sickening and an affront to our troops who choose to be in the military, they were drafted in...so to post a picture like that is nothing short of an insult to the current troops and to those that have served in our military..........But the again most know that the liberal thinking it that the military is the fault and they have no use for it, work to weaken it and speak of the failures and loses to enbolden our enemies...so why should we expect anything less.........as for the right to post it, by all means, but don't think for a mnute that those that find it offensive will not object to it...but then again, that is why it was put up to begin with...to encite and draw out the comments so the one that posted it can then "spin" the comments to show more of our "intolerance" and the ignoance that the "elitist" think we have and they will then feel the need to show us the error of our way....

cheri1122 · May 18, 2009

aristotle said:
All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

Now where have I heard that one before? Oh yeah, it's one of my own favorite quotes, lol.
But it's WHAT you do that shows your character - namecalling just proves your anger, not your point.
If Mr G's intent was to get you all stirred up, you went along with his agenda, didn't you?
C'mon, Aristotle, you're smarter than that - aren't you?

MrGautama · May 18, 2009

Everybody relax!!, Cheri is right, the poster is against the government and not in any way against the soldiers. C'mon, how could I blame the soldiers when many of the dead kids joined the armed forces to be able to get an education they couldn't afford, one that we as a society should have provided for free instead of asking them to fight abroad for the benefit of war profiteers.

I found some wonderful posters that convey the message I agree with and posted one, I guess that a few more would clear this mess.

layoutshooter · May 18, 2009

There is great evil in this world. I had to deal with it almost everyday for 20 years. It did sicken me to see so many Americans identified with and sided with the "Evil". I had college instructors that were card carrying communists. They glorified the Soviet Union. The same Soviet Union that murdered over 25 million people. Some even said it was needed to eliminate "Bad Thinking". Sort of "Political Correctness" on steriods. We face enemies today that are just as evil as the Soviets were, maybe even backed by the newly re-emerging Soviet Russia. The return to the extermination of millions is not far off. History only repeats because we allow it to.

MrGautama · May 18, 2009

layoutshooter said:
Don't play the dead children game in here Mr G. Your numbers you quote don't even come close the the 47 million babies killed in U.S. Abortion clinics since 1973 and YOU support one of the biggest supports of those that "target" children.

To make it brief... I am not with the pro-abortion nor with the pro-compulsive pregnancy and state ownership of female reproductive organs.

The solution isn't in any of both camps. We have to finally understand a few things:
-Sex is most likely our strongest impulse and forced abstinence, and sometimes voluntary, is fairly detrimental to our mental health (just look at the Catholic priests scandals).
-Pregnancy is without a doubt one of the easiest and cheapest things to prevent in the adult population.
-Teens like it or not are going to have sex which by me is great because in grand measure that means they are not engaging in other really stupid behaviors due to the lack of it.

Education is the weapon of choice to get a reasonable solution to the problem, massive campaigns to show how easy is to prevent and how nasty an abortion can be. Easy access to contraceptive measures, even subsidized, to everyone including teens.

It's a problem fairly easy to solve but as long as sex is kept out of the public discourse and the remedies are dictated by religious dogma instead of reason and pragmatism we are bound to stay stuck in the status quo.
We don't know when life begins and for me isn't of much importance, I have never been involved in an unwanted pregnancy or under any circumstance would be involved in an abortion; with that said and considering what our present realities are I can't form my political position based on the issue of abortion because both camps are wrong in my view, so I'm forced to leave the issue out when supporting or opposing a political candidate.

MrGautama · May 18, 2009

aristotle said:
Cheri...the poster MrG is using is an exact copy of Nazi-style propaganda used during WW2. MrG has replaced the Nazi insignia on the shoulder patch with the American flag. It is indefensible. What's next for MrG's gallery? Perhaps he will display Robert Mapplethorpe's Greatest Hits. Or a crucifix displayed in urine. MrG aka Letzrock is a hateful, spiteful provocateur who delights in spewing hateful images.

I can only imagine how EO sponsors and advertisers will react when they see this vile anti-American portrayal of our military men and women. I know you hold a personal grudge with me, that's fine.

If EO allows MrG's hate-filled images to stand, they won't have to ban me, I will disassociate myself from this website voluntarily. It is appalling to watch these moderators cower from such filth.

Why not, here it goes a picture by Robert Mapplethorpe:

P.S. The picture with Christ in urine belongs to Andres Serrano not to Mapplethorpe.

layoutshooter · May 18, 2009

I am NOT going to argue this. It is silly. My view will never change. I believe what I believe. This is NOT worth my time. I am a man a strong convictions. You, or no one for that matter, can change them. Core values are just that, my core values. I take pride in the courage of my convictions and stand by them.

MrGautama · May 18, 2009

LDB said:
That picture insults the U.S. government. It insults the troops. It insults the population at large. It says the troops are nothing but Nazis by their own choice of service in that army. It says the population is no better than a Nazi population for allowing the government to devolve to that point. No, it isn't insulting to only the government. I'm sorry for anyone unable to see that.

In order for a military unit to work the subordinates can't question their superior's orders and you know that better that most. The picture is a challenge to the government an also one to the civilian population who, in contrast to kids in the military, can and should question their government motives to waste all those young lives for better bottom lines in the corporate accounting books.