Gay discrimination

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
FWIW, an additional point: It is one thing to say that homosexual conduct does not further the survival of the species ... but it is something altogether different to say that people who have engaged in that conduct are incapable of furthering the survival of the species.

Basic fairness would require that when judging the worth or value or contributions of any individual, that the totality of that individual's life be taken in account ...
 

Maverick

Seasoned Expediter
I think in terms of reality, not fantasy.

Understand that. Just giving both side's view, which will not change. :)

It seemed you were giving the post as fact, or absolute.

However, even given the complex construction of the human body....is it not fact, that each part serves a purpose? Be it evolution, or creation, it may be time for coming to terms, as to which parts function for what?
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Understand that. Just giving both side's view, which will not change. :)

It seemed you were giving the post as fact, or absolute.

However, even given the complex construction of the human body....is it not fact, that each part serves a purpose? Be it evolution, or creation, it may be time for coming to terms, as to which parts function for what?

Why do men have nipples?
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Well, now we're back to the big question that you have yet to answer. Why NOW? Why, after more than 5500 years, is it so critical that it happen now, right now, in this epoch of human history, in this era of societal development? How is this going to ensure the survival of society? A simple "It's the right thing to do," isn't going to even begin to answer that question. "It's the right thing to do," is an emotional want, not an argument for change, much less for such a profound change.

Why is it that what has worked for society for all of recorded human history is now, suddenly, wrong? In order to answer why "it's the right thing to do," you MUST be able to explain why it was so wrong for more than 5500 years, why it didn't work, and why society was worse because of it. Good luck with that.

That's the emotional argument of using the exception to disprove the rule, because looking at all of recorded history through the lens of a snapshot in time is not only short-sighted, but incorrect. Please don't tell me you are using the current divorce rates as justification for same-sex marriage. The fact is, divorce in any kind of significant numbers is a relative recent phenomenon. Even going back to the liberal Greco-Roman days, the ancient Athenians liberally allowed divorce, but it was still exceedingly rare, due to social and familial pressures and traditions. In religion, divorce is considered an affront to God, and thus is only allowed under certain circumstances. Even after the Reformation, when marriage became mostly a civil contract, divorce was considered to be against the public interest. Why is divorce against the public interest? Because society works best with marriage. In the US we currently have large numbers of divorce, and, you know, we're just doing a bang up job societally. "Till death do us part" serves society. Divorce does not.

Ironically, as soon as people started marrying for luv is when divorces started happening with disturbing frequency. The takeaway from that is as soon as people start doing selfishly for themselves rather than what is best for society, everybody loses. There's a liberal viewpoint you can wrap your head around. So, again, why, exactly, is allowing same-sex marriage the right thing to do?

Why now? Why not now? The simple answer is because now is when gay people have collectively decided 'enough is enough' and they are no longer willing to pretend to be what they can not be. And why should they? Because it makes some people feel disgust? Well, people used to feel disgust when faced with 'cripples' and physical abnormalities, even wheelchairs bother some people. Ever see the one about the young woman with a full beard, the kind that most men would envy? She left a lovely note for some guy who snuck photos of her, explaining that she'd have happily allowed him to take them openly - she understood that people are curious. She would have explained that how she looks is how God made her, and she is fine with that - it's other people who have a problem with it. Homosexuals are tired of being considered freaks, for something they have no more control over than a spastic has over his muscle contractions. They are sick of living a lie, to please other people. They are just tired of being considered and treated as 'less than' everyone else.
As a woman, I've encountered enough of that same feeling: being considered and treated as 'less than' to understand and empathize. As a citizen, I think we do our nation no favors by allowing discrimination against some people to keep them from contributing what they may - who knows how many might have been or done more, if they had felt comfortable being who they really are? Human resources are our greatest strength - we need to take care of those who do not threaten us. Homosexuality doesn't threaten us - there will never be enough of them to outweigh the heterosexual capacity to reproduce.
I never said marriage is wrong - it is the stable base of family that keeps society civil. Marriage is a good thing, and I applaud those who make it work. I just think it's wrong to insist that the two people involved be opposite sexes, because a same sex couple would do at least as well at raising children, even if they can't have them the same way. And isn't raising children the reason marriage is so important?
I'd much rather see children raised to be happy, productive, responsible citizens by two daddies or mommies than the sociopaths that heterosexuals have produced with pretty scary frequency.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Sooo, you answer is, because they want it really, really badly. Got it.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I don't disagree with the information, but it still appears as scientific theory at this point.
Scientific theory is the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge. It appears that you are confusing the terms "scientific theory" and the significantly different commonly used word "theory" (which implies that something is a guess, i.e., unsubstantiated and speculative). It is neither.

Before a scientific theory can be created, a hypothesis must be developed which is a supposition or proposed explanation that is formed on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation. If a substantial amount of evidence is gathered that consistently suggests the validity of a hypothesis, the hypothesis can be converted into a theory. What I posted above is still in the hypothesis stage, but so far the evidence points to making it a theory. It will still be quite some time before it gets to the point of having been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment, where its predictions are tested and falsifiable.

For example, the hypothesis that homosexuality is genetic has been proven false. However, the hypothesis that homosexuals are "born that way" has not been proven false, and in fact evidence is mounting to make it a theory.
 

asjssl

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
Is there not enough people in the world as it is...so having a group that can't reproduce is a good thing...stop complaining about them...THANK THEM!!...again ..everyone is just looking for any reason to keep there boot on there heads ...like Cheri said..so you Dont like seeing 2 men holding hands in public...ever think maybe there disgusted by your actions...Dont like it...Dont look..Dont like what's on Tv... turn the channel..pretty simple concept.. TRUST ME..I GET DISGUSTED watching all these Tv Churches BEGGING FOR $$ ( tax free by the way) fooling people ..I turn the channel..

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fifaref2

Veteran Expediter
We have enough dumbasses already in the world. Don't you see them everyday driving cars? And they are born this way.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Is there not enough people in the world as it is...so having a group that can't reproduce is a good thing...stop complaining about them...THANK THEM!!...again ..everyone is just looking for any reason to keep there boot on there heads ...like Cheri said..so you Dont like seeing 2 men holding hands in public...ever think maybe there disgusted by your actions...Dont like it...Dont look..Dont like what's on Tv... turn the channel..pretty simple concept.. TRUST ME..I GET DISGUSTED watching all these Tv Churches BEGGING FOR $$ ( tax free by the way) fooling people ..I turn the channel..

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That's your intelligent argument? Really? That PDA and marriage are intertwined within society as being exactly the same thing? That if you don't like one or the other you can simply change the channel to a different society?
 

asjssl

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
That's your intelligent argument? Really? That PDA and marriage are intertwined within society as being exactly the same thing? That if you don't like one or the other you can simply change the channel to a different society?

Well...what part is not the truth...

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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Well...what part is not the truth...
That "holding hands" and "marriage" are even remotely the same thing, that simply by turning away and not looking at something you are disgusted by will make it go away, and that the ability to reproduce is the qualification for marriage. So, pretty much everything you stated.
 

asjssl

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
That "holding hands" and "marriage" are even remotely the same thing, that simply by turning away and not looking at something you are disgusted by will make it go away, and that the ability to reproduce is the qualification for marriage. So, pretty much everything you stated.

Ability to Reproduce is not a box that needs to have a √ next to it to be a legal marriage..that's your intelligent argument..really what about infertile couples like my cousin...guess there not legally married then...AND YES ask most people ..ask them...they have a problem with gays kissing & holding hands In Public.....Dont like it...Dont look..sorry my answer is not chuck full of vowels ..

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LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Changing the channel on the television due to content is one thing. Extreme public displays are another and are often the case with gay parades and events. They make sure, as much as possible, to hold them at times and in places that are 'in the face' of the most people.

Given the choice immediately of full legal standing, survivorship, inheritance, medical decision making and any other equivalencies through civil unions or fighting for marriage eventually someday what's the logical choice? And what's the likely choice?
 

asjssl

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
Changing the channel on the television due to content is one thing. Extreme public displays are another and are often the case with gay parades and events. They make sure, as much as possible, to hold them at times and in places that are 'in the face' of the most people.

Given the choice immediately of full legal standing, survivorship, inheritance, medical decision making and any other equivalencies through civil unions or fighting for marriage eventually someday what's the logical choice? And what's the likely choice?

Yes they do...big parades...Dont watch... its apparently not your thing...so they should hide because it offends you...got it..

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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Ability to Reproduce is not a box that needs to have a √ next to it to be a legal marriage..that's your intelligent argument..
No, it's yours. It's the argument you made above, whether you intended to make it or not:
"Is there not enough people in the world as it is...so having a group that can't reproduce is a good thing...stop complaining about them...THANK THEM!!." THEREFORE LET THEM GET MARRIED. You just introduced the ability to have children, or not, as a factor in gay marriage. Your argument is they can't reproduce, therefore ergo thus, so let them get married, as if being able to reproduce, or not, is a factor.

You're so emotional on the subject that you can't even think straight (pun intended).

they have a problem with gays kissing & holding hands In Public.....Dont like it...Dont look..
What does gays kissing & holding hands in public have to do with same-sex marriage?
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Another form of so-called "discrimination" that hasn't been mentioned yet is the type claimed by the mental cases that call themselves transgender. Most people have a real problem with these people who on any given day think they're female instead of male, disregarding the reality of their physical and genetic characteristics. With this state of mind they think they're entitled to use the women's facilities in public places like high schools, and claim their "civil rights" are being denied if they don't get their way. A glowing example of this insanity comes from - where else - California, where Gov. Moonbeam recently signed legislation that caves to the small minority of sexually confused students, ignoring the rights of the normal kids that comprise the vast majority of students in public schools.
TRANSGENDER RESTROOM LAW HUMILIATES THE 98%

Exclusive: Assemblyman Tim Donnelly will now yank his kids from government schools

Published: 08/15/2013 at 8:08 PM
By Assemblyman Tim Donnelly

Earlier this week, Gov. Jerry Brown signed a bill into law that will allow, after Jan. 1, 2014, any K-12 student who identifies his or her gender as something opposite of what his actual sex is access to any bathrooms, locker rooms and sports teams...

While trying to address a concern of less than 2 percent of the population, California is now forcibly violating the rights of the other 98 percent. Many of the parents I have heard from within the last few days have literally pulled their kids out of public schools and have enrolled them in homeschool and private school programs. My boys, who went back to the public school after many years away, will not be returning.

Read more at Transgender restroom law humiliates the 98%
But wait - just when you think it can't get any worse...
Appeals court: Taxpayer-funded sex change for convicted Mass. killer must resume

By
Associated Press
Friday, January 17, 2014


BOSTON — A federal appeals court on Friday upheld a judge’s ruling granting a taxpayer-funded sex change operation for a transgender inmate serving a life sentence for a murder conviction, saying receiving medically necessary treatment is a constitutional right that must be protected “even if that treatment strikes some as odd or unorthodox.”

U.S. District Judge Mark Wolf ruled in 2012 that the state Department of Correction must provide sex reassignment surgery for Michelle Kosilek, who was born as Robert Kosilek and is serving a life sentence for the killing of his wife in 1990.

Read more: Appeals court: Taxpayer-funded sex change for convicted Mass. killer must resume - Washington Times





 

asjssl

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
No, it's yours. It's the argument you made above, whether you intended to make it or not:
"Is there not enough people in the world as it is...so having a group that can't reproduce is a good thing...stop complaining about them...THANK THEM!!." THEREFORE LET THEM GET MARRIED. You just introduced the ability to have children, or not, as a factor in gay marriage. Your argument is they can't reproduce, therefore ergo thus, so let them get married, as if being able to reproduce, or not, is a factor.

You're so emotional on the subject that you can't even think straight (pun intended).

What does gays kissing & holding hands in public have to do with same-sex marriage?
NO....MY POINT....IS... everyone is upset about gays marrying ....OK. WITH ME....that......good...WE HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE WALKING THE FACE OF THE EARTH...so...since they CAN NOT reproduce...good for the world....SEE your so involved in PROVING everyone WRONG you did not understand my answer...guess its toooo simple...you want to go to IQ war with everyone.. again I get it you win the IQ war....and yes I am passionate on the subject...sorry I love my nephew dearly...and he was wronged so so bad by the ones who are supposed to be in your corner at all costs...(just for being who he was BORN...BORN !!)......guilty as charged!..But some I guess dont understand that...:confused:


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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
What does "WE HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE WALKING THE FACE OF THE EARTH...so...since they CAN NOT reproduce" have to do with same-sex marriage?

I'm also wondering, still, What does gays kissing & holding hands in public have to do with same-sex marriage?
 
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