FSC shell game

CharlesD

Expert Expediter
What was the fuel surcharge originally implemented for? I always thought it was supposed to be a separate bit of money passed through to the purchaser of the fuel, but here's what is happening out there.

The people who have the freight, with the exception of NLM and a couple others, are asking for all inclusive pricing when a carrier quotes on freight. You would think that when the fuel goes up and the surcharge goes up, the owner operator should get more money with the higher surcharge and the carrier should still make their profit, but that isn't what is going on. Let's say for sake of argument that the current going rate for brokered cargo van loads, and I'm talking bid board stuff not what we can get from better sources or customers, is around $1.10 a mile all in. Sometimes you're lucky to get that, but just for example we'll put it at that. Now let's just say for the sake of easy math that the FSC was .20 a mile. A load pops up on NLM and it has the surcharge and tariff listed separately. For those who don't know, if you just put a yes bid in there you get it at your set tariff plus the FSC, but you can put a spot bid in there for any different amount and if you get the load the FSC will be added. So a carrier figures out their total bid at $1.10 and separates the FSC from that total figure and puts the resulting figure of .90 cpm in the spot bid field, so the load will pay $1.10 after the FSC is added. Now a week later fuel skyrockets and let's just say for easy math that the FSC jumps up a dime. Now that same carrier sees another load on there and still has it in their heads that cargo van loads are going for that same overall rate. This time .80 is put in the spot bid field so the load is still bid at $1.10 when the FSC is added.

In this example, the FSC is higher but the overall rate to the carrier is still the same. The problem is that the driver is expecting more money because of the FSC being higher. People aren't bidding the same linehaul when the FSC goes up. They're still bidding the same all inclusive rate that they were before. Now it's not as bad with the straights, but it's getting to the point that if a carrier is passing the FSC through but not bidding higher when fuel goes up, that there's really no way to make a profit on a cargo van load.

I'm not sure what can be done about this because there's always going to be some numbskull who will bid lower just to secure the freight, but when fuel goes up, someone is going to be losing money. In an ideal world, the driver should get more money when fuel goes up but the carrier shouldn't have that coming out of the profit on the load. Margins are really tight on the smaller units as it is. I don't really know how the situation could be improved unless you mandated that the FSC is a complete pass through and at the same time put a floor on how low people could bid on the loads, but that would have to be at the discretion of the broker or 3PL since legislating it would be not only extremely difficult but also a major case of over regulation. So what's the answer? Do carriers just have to eat it when the fuel is up or just pay the drivers a flat percentage of the total rate, which means the drivers have to eat it when fuel is up? The linehaul should be at a profitable rate for everyone with the FSC being a complete pass through to offset higher fuel costs, but it's not being treated that way by anyone.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
That is a lot of information for you to absorb.....but I get it.....linehaul rate goes down, FSC goes up....no gain or even a small loss...
 

blizzard2014

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Charles companies like Panther and Load One and the bigger guys usually provide the driver with a higher fuel surcharge when the price of fuel goes up. Don't think for a second that NLM doesn't pay higher rates for cargo van loads. We're just seeing the bottom of the barrel. I was called by a broker for a load for one of my trucks in Brownsville Texas...The load was indeed an NLM load that we did not see on our end because we are not on the higher tier. That company got 1080 dollars for a 560 mile cargo van run andd paid us 1.15 a mile.

There is money in the good NLM loads - perhaps the ones that just the bigger guys see. But as far as Sylectus - the all inclusive bids of just above a dollar a mile for cargo van loads is not going to cut it when fuel skyrockets. Once again the Sylectus stuff is mostly all of the leftover freight. If you can get the freight from the primary source then it would be much better for your drivers. It's just so hard to break in when all of the bigger carriers are fighting with a death grip to lock the smaller guys out.

Another secret that some of the larger carriers do not want to share with you is the fact that they have their fixed operating costs spread out over 160 units. That means that they can move a lot of freight for a small amount of profit and still make good money - whereas the smaller guy has to move less freight at a better rate to stay in business. The volume method is a tried and true method for making a lot of money. I'm not saying every carrier does this - but when things slow down the larger carriers have a very distinct advantage over the smaller one. The larger guys can take a loss and keep their capacity rolling because they have a large fleet and can spread thing out a bit more. I hope this FSC problem is corrected real soon or a lot of guys are going to go out of business this summer.
 

moose

Veteran Expediter
Exactly, as an O/O and the party pay for the fuel, i can care less what the carrier charge it's costumers.
it is flat out none of my business,
as long as i get the pre agreed on FSC structure to protect my side of the business from paying for the higher fuel prices.
i know going in how much it will cost me in fuel to run a truck.
IF the carrier is dumb enough not to increase the bid, to reflect his cost of doing business, it's his problem, not mine, i'd just hope they can stay in business for too long. most know how to run a profitable business over time, and i will not want to be in their shoes, nor do i know what it takes.
i pay them to stay in business and keep the truck moving with good paying freight.
IF i was to get paid as a %tage of the 'all in', i'd expect to see the load confirmation sheet for every run.
it is also none of the customer business how much is paid 'to the truck'.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Well the solution is what we had a couple years back, a reduction of trucks and vans.
 

Dynamite 1

Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
a reduction would help. the real problem lies with the carriers that drop the line haul bid and up the fsc so its always the same price. the carriers can cure this problem if they so choose. the carriers need to step into their big boy pants and leave their bid rates alone and increase the fsc. if the carriers would up the bid price on spot bids and all other quotes and stand firm on not doing it for less, it would force shippers to simply choose whom they do business with. kinda like it use to be when some shippers didnt care about price only the quality of the carrier. this is why this industry has stagnated over the past. ten years ago 50% of shippers had their preferred carrier and payed the price and liked it. then all the low ball carriers showed up along with the over influx of brokers and it became who will do it for less.

makes me happy to be where i am where this doesnt happen unless directed
drive less make more. eh !!!!!!!
 

beachbum

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
If you are a O/O working for yourself and not leased onto anyone a FSC doesn't mean crap, the only thing you need to do is get the rate you need to make your profit.

When you are leased to a company and you run on percent you want a higher FSC if you get 100% of the FSC your profit margin goes up as long as your line haul doesn't go down much. Most of us make more when the price of fuel goes up, that has been a fact or years.
 

CharlesD

Expert Expediter
the carriers can cure this problem if they so choose. the carriers need to step into their big boy pants and leave their bid rates alone and increase the fsc. if the carriers would up the bid price on spot bids and all other quotes and stand firm on not doing it for less, it would force shippers to simply choose whom they do business with.

That would surely fix the problem, but you need everyone to play ball or it doesn't work. If 100 carriers decide they're going to stick to their guns and one comes in with the lower bid, guess who's going to get the load? You want to do the right thing, but there is a point where you also need to actually win some loads here and there.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
What was the fuel surcharge originally implemented for?
It was originally implemented as a way to deal with contracted rates without having to redo the contract every week to deal with the volatile price of diesel fuel. The contracts were left in place, and a FSC was added to cover the additional cost of fuel. The FSC could then be quickly and easily lowered or raised depending on the average price for fuel, without having to do anything to the original contracts.

It started out with mostly the really big boys in general trucking where contracted tariffs for Dedicated, TL and LTL have long been in place. Then it quickly spilled over into expediting where there were many tariff contracts in place, as well.

Now it's ubiquitous, but with the bid boards, the rules of FSC are out the window, where people will bid lower and lower just to get the freight, and the FSC gets played with constantly. Some carriers will bid all-inclusive with no FSC, thereby allowing them to take their percentage of both the line haul and what would have been the FSC. If there's a way to manipulate the bids and FSC so that whomever is doing the manipulating can make more money, it's gonna happen.
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
Dynamite wrote:

makes me happy to be where i am where this doesnt happen unless directed
drive less make more. eh !!!!!!!

And there lays the solution for the O/O / Driver, being contracted to a carrier that as the assets to run their business as it needs to be, and having an owner and management team that values those that contract to them and has shown over time that they can be trusted by the O/O / Driver..and i will say that is something that is appreciated by most all of us here...:)
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Dynamite wrote:



And there lays the solution for the O/O / Driver, being contracted to a carrier that as the assets to run their business as it needs to be, and having an owner and management team that values those that contract to them and has shown over time that they can be trusted by the O/O / Driver..and i will say that is something that is appreciated by most all of us here...:)

now if I could only burn some fuel to collect this FSC....;)
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
the real problem lies with the carriers that drop the line haul bid and up the fsc so its always the same price.

Why is this a problem for me?

I mean ok I get the shell game analogy but it isn't the problem that we have carriers who are divided up between one group or another and that the "big boys" are doing one thing and the others are doing another. But we have too many carriers and at the same time too much access to the freight, making it very competitive. I didn't even touch on inter-brokering or multi-touched freight which drives the price down to the truck. We in fact have too much capacity in this market and a blur between LTL and expedite which may be the real issue for all of us.

So the solution is not more regulations but better grip on the contract that one signs with the carrier and a clear understanding what it all means.
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
now if I could only burn some fuel to collect this FSC....;)

You can burn all the fuel you want, you just ain't gettin the FSC until you are moving under "load"...:)

But back to the original post, i was in Laredo a few weeks ago, and the topic among the "group" was that 1 of the "mid-size" carriers was bidding freight out of there and bidding it "minus" any FSC......thats "nuts".....
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
You will see that to move units. Also keep in mind that the bargain haulers have less overhead but lose out to carriers with the coverage, networks and insurance. Kinda of a double edge sword.
 

tumbleweeds

Expert Expediter
Owner/Operator
You will see that to move units. Also keep in mind that the bargain haulers have less overhead but lose out to carriers with the coverage, networks and insurance. Kinda of a double edge sword.

I wonder if the carriers are watching "shipping wars" and saying to them selves "these drivers don't have the brains that God gave a goose" " we can always find some nut job that will run our freight so cheap that we can cut the rates to the basement and these fools will think they are making money cuz the FSC is added to the bid" We turned down a run today that was just over .50 a mile with the FSC already added in. It had a ton of D/H. We turned down another run at .83 a mile. We just can't run for that. First rule of business is to make a profit. The down side is we have been sitting for several days. It's a catch 22.
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
You will see that to move units. Also keep in mind that the bargain haulers have less overhead but lose out to carriers with the coverage, networks and insurance. Kinda of a double edge sword.

The carrier that was doing this has a very nice biggg overhead....like i said, it was just "nuts"...
 

cableguymn

Seasoned Expediter
I wonder if the carriers are watching "shipping wars" and saying to them selves "these drivers don't have the brains that God gave a goose" " we can always find some nut job that will run our freight so cheap that we can cut the rates to the basement and these fools will think they are making money cuz the FSC is added to the bid" We turned down a run today that was just over .50 a mile with the FSC already added in. It had a ton of D/H. We turned down another run at .83 a mile. We just can't run for that. First rule of business is to make a profit. The down side is we have been sitting for several days. It's a catch 22.

Where are you sitting "for days" and WHY? Yes, they where cheap runs. Where were they going? Did they get you to a better freight area?

I'd take a crap run to get to an area that produces freight. It's better than driving there on your own dime.
 

Dynamite 1

Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
so doing things like that just add fuel to the fire. there are lots who think this way. when you pool all the people together it totals quite a few. those quite a few just reinforce the broker/ shipper mentality that carriers do always have o/o that will do it for less. drive for empty move money and leave the cheap crap sitting on the dock. not only do carriers have a part in curing this problem but o/o do also.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Where are you sitting "for days" and WHY? Yes, they where cheap runs. Where were they going? Did they get you to a better freight area?

I'd take a crap run to get to an area that produces freight. It's better than driving there on your own dime.

Please..define a crap area?..... I sometimes play the I29 corridor...from Fargo to KC....I hope thats not what you are calling crap areas?
 

CharlesD

Expert Expediter
Sometimes the areas that people think are the good freight areas are not the best freight areas because the whole herd is parked there.
 
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