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AMonger

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
layoutshooter said:
It is AMAZING how people would rather see this girl murdered, or worse.
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As the saying goes, gun controllers are people who believe a woman, raped in an alley and strangled to death with her own panty hose is morally superior to a live woman with a gun in her purse.
What if's are nice, in here, in real life, go for it. There is no time for 'what if's' The thug got shot, the girl is safe. AMEN!
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Hard cases make bad law, and those that would impose it under those conditions are completely willing to ask, "Well, what if Captain Kirk beams down from the Enterprise, out what if a tiger escapes from the zoo?" ANYTHING to separate you from your guns.
 
cheri1122

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
layoutshooter said:
Yes, he broke into her house. She KNEW he broke into the house. She called her mother, SHE told her where the gun was. She was on the phone with the 911 operator.

No one is disputing that, why are you repeating it?


The most likely 'what if' is that girl would have been harmed, or worse. had she NOT fired. It WAS legal and correct. She retreated, even though NO one is required to retreat further once inside the house. She hid. The door knob turned, without the person on the other side making an ID statement. She did right! If I were her father I would be buying her a few guns of her own and she would be putting Annie to shame soon! She was NOT a victim, she took control and likely saved her life. GO FOR IT GIRL! She has more sense and guts that many adults.
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Most likely is NOT only, and Turtle & I offered 2 other possibilities right away to explain how the person might not have been intending to harm her, but you don't see what you don't want to see.
If her father [who isn't mentioned at all] or mother don't point out how lucky she was, they have missed a great [and important] lesson, just as you have.
 
layoutshooter

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
"Police say St. Clair did exactly what she should have done."


The line above is from that second article. She acted correctly. She understood and had assessed the situation. She retreated and hid. She had contacted the authorities and her mother. She did NOT fire until she believed her life was in danger. She is alive and unharmed, the thug in jail.
 
layoutshooter

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
cheri1122 said:
Most likely is NOT only, and Turtle & I offered 2 other possibilities right away to explain how the person might not have been intending to harm her, but you don't see what you don't want to see.
If her father [who isn't mentioned at all] or mother don't point out how lucky she was, they have missed a great [and important] lesson, just as you have.
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What would YOU tell her she should have done, wait till she saw the "whites of his eyes"?

You, and Turtle, only pointed out, 'What if's' from the safety of your keyboard. You were not there, you did not access the situation yourself and YOUR life was NOT in danger. The cops says she did right, so does the law in MOST states and so does common sense.

This is not life protection by committee. One does NOT wait for a 'what if'. One acts only on the known paramiters in a situation. She did EXACTLY that. I want HER on my side!
 
shadow7663

shadow7663

Expert Expediter
layoutshooter said:
What would YOU tell her she should have done, wait till she saw the "whites of his eyes"?

You, and Turtle, only pointed out, 'What if's' from the safety of your keyboard. You were not there, you did not access the situation yourself and YOUR life was NOT in danger. The cops says she did right, so does the law in MOST states and so does common sense.

This is not life protection by committee. One does NOT wait for a 'what if'. One acts only on the known paramiters in a situation. She did EXACTLY that. I want HER on my side!
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Flip that the scenario around and she is now a legal adult who shot through a door at an "ASSUMED" target and injured or killed an innocent person. Would you still be shouting "GO GIRL"?
 
cheri1122

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
I repeat: she is a very lucky girl.
Your turning that into "some people would rather see her murdered or worse" is what I find amazing, because no one [here] said or implied any such thing.
 
Humble2drive

Humble2drive

Expert Expediter
layoutshooter said:
. . .The girl KNEW neither her mother, or the police, were NOT there. She did not fire UNTIL she saw the doorknob move. Sounds like she has a LOT of wits about her. What she did was LEGAL and CORRECT.
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Me big dummy. I missed that she was alone.:p

Yep, I say blow holes through the door because no one else should be in that house. Even the 12 year old neighbor boy.
Waiting for the door to open would put her face to face and eye to eye with a man in front of her making her hesitate just long enough to be disarmed and then be at his mercy.
 
piattteam

piattteam

Active Expediter
Layoutshooter, as a former police officer who has seen- many times- victims of crimes, I give a HUGE thumbs up to this girl!!
As you stated- NUMEROUS TIMES- she had spoken with her mother and KNEW her mother was NOT present. And, she was on the phone with 911 and KNEW the police were NOT on the scene.
In 15 years of law enforcement, I NEVER ONCE had a neighbor enter a home when suspicious activity had been noticed- NEVER!!!
I NEVER even had a family member enter prior to police arrival-NEVER! EVEN IF IT WAS THEIR OWN HOME!!
This girl did everything right- NOTHING wrong.
Layoutshooter, I must disagree with your she should have killed him though statement. Trust me, even when you are forced to take another person's life, legally, it is a very painful thing to do. And, it haunts you for the rest of your life- at least for 34 years and counting.
 
layoutshooter

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
shadow7663 said:
Flip that the scenario around and she is now a legal adult who shot through a door at an "ASSUMED" target and injured or killed an innocent person. Would you still be shouting "GO GIRL"?
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What door? A closet door, inside her house, when no one else she KNEW was there? She did not shoot through an exterior door to the outside. SHE WAS IN THE CLOSET. Which is INSIDE her home. At ANY age, it is legal.

In my house, intruders are NOT likely to leave under their own power, once they break in. I ASSUME that when someone breaks in they are there to do harm. It is MY house and I am NOT required to retreat. That IS my 'safe zone'. Same for the girl, at any age. On the street I will retreat, IF POSSIBLE, if not, I will defend myself.

There are few choices. really only two, plan to NOT be a victim or be one.
 
layoutshooter

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
piattteam said:
Layoutshooter, as a former police officer who has seen- many times- victims of crimes, I give a HUGE thumbs up to this girl!!
As you stated- NUMEROUS TIMES- she had spoken with her mother and KNEW her mother was NOT present. And, she was on the phone with 911 and KNEW the police were NOT on the scene.
In 15 years of law enforcement, I NEVER ONCE had a neighbor enter a home when suspicious activity had been noticed- NEVER!!!
I NEVER even had a family member enter prior to police arrival-NEVER! EVEN IF IT WAS THEIR OWN HOME!!
This girl did everything right- NOTHING wrong.
Layoutshooter, I must disagree with your she should have killed him though statement. Trust me, even when you are forced to take another person's life, legally, it is a very painful thing to do. And, it haunts you for the rest of your life- at least for 34 years and counting.
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For HER sake I am glad she did NOT kill him. In HIS case, shame he is still alive. I DO understand what you mean.
 
layoutshooter

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
cheri1122 said:
I repeat: she is a very lucky girl.
Your turning that into "some people would rather see her murdered or worse" is what I find amazing, because no one [here] said or implied any such thing.
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No, there was NO OTHER CHOICE for her, shoot or face death, or worse. Wanting to make her 'wait' for a "what if" gives time to the thug. Thugs need not more time.
 
Turtle

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
layoutshooter said:
You, and Turtle, only pointed out, 'What if's' from the safety of your keyboard.
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Juuuuust like you did.

You were not there, you did not access the situation yourself and YOUR life was NOT in danger.
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Same with you, dood. You weren't there, didn't access the situation, and your life was not in any danger, either.

The cops says she did right, so does the law in MOST states and so does common sense.
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Well, I never said she did wrong, and I most certainly never said I would would rather see this girl murdered, or worse (whatever "worse" might be), and I don't appreciate you characterizing my comments as such.

This is not life protection by committee. One does NOT wait for a 'what if'. One acts only on the known paramiters in a situation. She did EXACTLY that. I want HER on my side!
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I find it very interesting that the two problems you have with this story are both based solely on a 'what if, yet at the same time berate any 'what ifs' that doesn't satisfy your holier-than-thou self-protection blood-lust. Like Cheri said, this girl got lucky.
 
layoutshooter

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Turtle said:
Juuuuust like you did.

Same with you, dood. You weren't there, didn't access the situation, and your life was not in any danger, either.

Well, I never said she did wrong, and I most certainly never said I would would rather see this girl murdered, or worse (whatever "worse" might be), and I don't appreciate you characterizing my comments as such.

I find it very interesting that the two problems you have with this story are both based solely on a 'what if, yet at the same time berate any 'what ifs' that doesn't satisfy your holier-than-thou self-protection blood-lust. Like Cheri said, this girl got lucky.
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Blood lust?

That girl, and EVERYONE in this country has the following ABSOLUTES:

The RIGHT to her LIFE

The RIGHT to her SAFETY

The RIGHT to defend HER life

The RIGHT to private property

The RIGHT to DEFEND that private property

NO ONE has the following:

A RIGHT to INVADE another's private property
A RIGHT to threaten another's life or safety


Yeah, she WAS lucky, she was LUCKY she was in a home that had the MEANS for her to defend herself.

As to how I characterize your comments, well, I often feel the same about how you characterize mine, we are even there.


You can't imagine worse that murdered? I can. Happens out there ALL the time.

I am not sure the what if part of the story you mean. The WHAT WAS is that her home WAS broken into, she retreated and hid, and when her life WAS threatened, she defended it. as is her ABSOLUTE RIGHT.
 
layoutshooter

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
cheri1122 said:
Police: Costumed Pa. girl mistaken for skunk, shot - KFVS12 News & Weather Cape Girardeau, Carbondale, Poplar Bluff

Here's one where the shooter wasn't so lucky.....
Which probably happens 100X as often as the lucky ones, but that's ok - we don't need to justify our right to bear arms based upon luck.
But I fear we will, if people keep being stupid about it.
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One, NOT similar situations, TWO PROVE that happens probably happens 100X as often, I DOUBT very much that you could. There is ZERO evidence that firearms accidents/mistakes are common, in fact, the PROOF shows beyond ANY doubt that they are VERY rare.

By the way we DO need to fight to keep our RIGHT to own, carry and use, firearms. That RIGHT has been under attack for decades. Not because of fear of LEGAL gun owners, who as a group have a magnificent, safety record, but from those who would rather see a country of victims to control.
 
cheri1122

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
layoutshooter said:
One, NOT similar situations, TWO PROVE that happens probably happens 100X as often, I DOUBT very much that you could. There is ZERO evidence that firearms accidents/mistakes are common, in fact, the PROOF shows beyond ANY doubt that they are VERY rare.

I said probably - you said the PROOF [why you hafta yell, anyhow?] shows beyond ANY doubt they are VERY rare, so where's the proof?

By the way we DO need to fight to keep our RIGHT to own, carry and use, firearms. That RIGHT has been under attack for decades. Not because of fear of LEGAL gun owners, who as a group have a magnificent, safety record, but from those who would rather see a country of victims to control.
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