Flat Rate Pay Plan

EASYTRADER

Expert Expediter
D unit - Surface Expedite

1.15 per mile for all Inservice miles loaded or empty using practical miles.

Plus fuel surcharge based on national average to keep fuel cost at 1.30 per gallon

150 for canada

Tolls and Clink Paid

450 min pay for team trucks.

How's that.

This would bring my accept ratio back to
90 percent.
 
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nightcreacher

Veteran Expediter
D unit - Surface Expedite

1.15 per mile for all Inservice miles loaded or empty using practical miles.

Plus fuel surcharge based on national average to keep fuel cost at 1.30 per gallon

150 for canada

Tolls and Clink Paid

450 min pay for team trucks.

How's that.

This would bring my accept ratio back to
90 percent.

ok,lets say you get your wish.do you think you will get enough miles that way? ok you get paid to get your load,you get paid to deliver your load,you get paid to get to your express center.now,your in a D unit,almost every ex center shows 10 d units a day.at the end of the day,no load so now you lost a day,do you think they are going to move you.why should they?they probably moved 6 or 7 loads that day,so now your waiting til the next day,load offer comes,50 mile dead head,300 mile run,what are you going to do?you might sit another day.If you see a tractor driver with a 7000 number,ask what he thought of the flat rate plan,then tell me how you like it.
 

Bruno

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
US Marines
I wouldn't take that plan either Steve. Maybe $2.00 a loaded mile and $1.00 Deadhead plus FSC for an E-Unit.
 

nightcreacher

Veteran Expediter
i was on flat rate at con-way now,200000 mile the 1st year,never had to sit,then they saw the light.no dead head un less dead heading to a load,my mileage went down the tubes,and im still trying to get out the debt i became in from lack of miles.oh and they kept offering loads that were 10 cpm under contract,with no fsc.said i wasnt being loaded as wouldnt accept one of these loads.
 

EASYTRADER

Expert Expediter
D unit drybox no liftgate

If there is no frieght, there is NO FRIEGHT so being stuck in a slow frieght lane has nothing to do with your pay rate.

As for relocation pay, if the company
needs your truck somewhere else they will move you with pay otherwise you can move on your own dime, which is no different than the system is now.

I have also worked a per mile rate.

As for getting enough miles - that is also a funtion of how many trucks versus lOads per day the company has. Percentage/Mile pay has nothing to do with that.

If accept rates don't go up, thee company WILL add more trucks!

Then you will really be sitting around.

Percentage pay may make you feel like you get a better deal but in reality its the same.

If you look at a load offer and divide
the Pay by the DHPU + RUN, to find the per mile rate you've done the same thing in reverse.

If that load does't meet your rate you turn it down right?

If you feel it meets your rate you take the run.

What if every run met that rate, you'd have less TD's would you not.

Maybe you thought the old program sucked, perhaps it did. Maybe had it been tweeked a little it could have worked out for everybody.

I know that half of the runs I decline
I decline because the DHPU makes the run unprofitable. A quarter of the runs I turn down because the staging mileage makes the run unprofitable. The balance of TD's are for other reasons.

My point is most of us evalute runs in a similar fashion if you don't you will go broke eventually.

Per mile pay solves the financial reasons for turning down loads.

You might think D unit Pay should have a higher rate per mile, well OK.

But the wisdom of the idea for solving the TD problem should be self evident.

Most likely what will happen is FECC
will just put more trucks on, which solves their problem, costs them nothing.
 

nightcreacher

Veteran Expediter
D unit drybox no liftgate

If there is no frieght, there is NO FRIEGHT so being stuck in a slow frieght lane has nothing to do with your pay rate.

As for relocation pay, if the company
needs your truck somewhere else they will move you with pay otherwise you can move on your own dime, which is no different than the system is now.

I have also worked a per mile rate.

As for getting enough miles - that is also a funtion of how many trucks versus lOads per day the company has. Percentage/Mile pay has nothing to do with that.

If accept rates don't go up, thee company WILL add more trucks!

Then you will really be sitting around.

Percentage pay may make you feel like you get a better deal but in reality its the same.

If you look at a load offer and divide
the Pay by the DHPU + RUN, to find the per mile rate you've done the same thing in reverse.

If that load does't meet your rate you turn it down right?

If you feel it meets your rate you take the run.

What if every run met that rate, you'd have less TD's would you not.

Maybe you thought the old program sucked, perhaps it did. Maybe had it been tweeked a little it could have worked out for everybody.

I know that half of the runs I decline
I decline because the DHPU makes the run unprofitable. A quarter of the runs I turn down because the staging mileage makes the run unprofitable. The balance of TD's are for other reasons.

My point is most of us evalute runs in a similar fashion if you don't you will go broke eventually.

Per mile pay solves the financial reasons for turning down loads.

You might think D unit Pay should have a higher rate per mile, well OK.

But the wisdom of the idea for solving the TD problem should be self evident.

Most likely what will happen is FECC
will just put more trucks on, which solves their problem, costs them nothing.
if the td problem was fixed with the flat rate plan they tried out with the tractors,we would all be on flat rate now.what you fail to realize,expedite freight is short mileage freight,the main reason for a team is there maybe deadhead involved,that would make it impossible for a solo to do,so if you think you could survive on 1500 miles a week at 1.15 per mile,then good luck.for less than 140000 miles a year,i do almost a 1/4 million dollars,thats not bragging,thats a fact.i would never be able to do that on a flat rate,as there would be a lot of miles i wouldnt get paid for, and at lets say the 1.45 that panther pays i would have to sit,as that wouldnt let me deadhead on my own.

slow freight,its not that freight is slow,with the nature of the business,each company is forced to have more trucks than they need,as its not a forced dispatch.if everyone would take all the loads,the fleet could be reduced by 25%,but that will never ever happen,so therefore,when your in like atlanta,and there are 9 D units with 6 loads/ day.your going to kill your pay.If you get percentage of load,your pay should of been high enough to off set sitting 1 day.i dont run a D unit for just that reason,our tractors dont sit around near as much as a C or D unit,after all there are far less of the tractors and more freight than they can cover
 
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OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
A flat rate system takes away "The Game" The only reason for a TD is DH and final destinaton and overall miles....

My 2 questions are usually
How much ya throwin in for DH?, OR how much to get me outta there?
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Percentage pay may make you feel like you get a better deal but in reality its the same.

If you look at a load offer and divide
the Pay by the DHPU + RUN, to find the per mile rate you've done the same thing in reverse.

If that load does't meet your rate you turn it down right?

If you feel it meets your rate you take the run.

What if every run met that rate, you'd have less TD's would you not.

Again, as I pointed out in another thread, and as you point out here, turn down rate improves as pay improves. It's not about flat rate or percentage pay, it's about the money you make.

Whatever compensation arrangement you use, your truck costs X amount per mile to operate and a load will pay Y amount per mile. You make money by accepting loads where Y is greater than X.

nightcreacher's point about short loads is important to note. Allow me to add a point about infrequent loads. The cost of sitting (fixed costs) must be considered as well as the cost of driving. Call the fixed costs Z. Thus profits happen when Y is greater than X+Z.

A flat rate system puts an owner-operator's focus on the need to generate miles, miles and more miles. But in expedite, a lot of the money we make is on shorter runs that pay more. And we wait for freight, sometimes for days at a time.

Under our present percentage pay system Diane and I can do just fine taking short runs, waiting for freight, and hitting the occasional grand slam cross country run. While our monthly income varies, sometimes dramatically, annual income is enough to keep our truck in the game.

The flat rate system you propose would not keep our truck in the game because we do not run enough loads and enough miles to make it pay. You could argue that lower pay would increase our run count and miles by making more loads available, but working harder for less money is not a prefered solution.

Granted, our truck is not the dry-box basic D-unit you are discussing. But when it comes to pay plans, the one size fits all plan that a flat rate plan is, does not fit all.

Also, when it comes to paid relocation, say you deliver to centeral Indiana. How long will you be willing to sit in Indianapolis waiting for freight before you started complaining about the fact that your paid relocation was not to Chicago where the freight is more abundant?

If you deliver in central PA, would you want paid relocatin to Pittsburgh, where you might wait a day or two for freight, or Newark, where you will likely be dispatched out sooner? And if they paid you to relocate to Pittsburgh, how long would you be willing to sit there while you watched trucks move quickly in and out of Newark?

I do not envy the people at any carrier that are tasked with establishing compensation arrangements. It is not as simple as looking at it from an owner-operator's point of view and providing a pay schedule that offers consistency and increases load acceptance ratings.

Shipper needs, carrier needs, owner-operator needs must all be considered and balanced. So do the needs of fleet owners who provide multiple trucks to carriers and split the pay with drivers. Economic winds and competitive forces whipsaw a variety of factors every which way. Long term and short term realities must be considered. And projections must be made that may or may not be reliable.

It all goes into the mix. When one item is changed, the others react. Notice how fuel prices are changing things now. Increased fuel prices changed the mix. In response, owner-operators, shippers, and suppliers of truck products and services - themselves part of the mix - are changing their behavior. And to those changes, the mix components react again.

With compensation arrangements, when a change is made that may solve one problem (more money to owner-operators increases load acceptance rates), that pricing schedule will be reacted to by shippers, carriers, owner operators, drivers, and (very importantly), competitors.

The rewards of this business don't go to owner-operators that demand a different mix. They go to those who learn how to identify the mix of the day and operate in it.
 
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terryandrene

Veteran Expediter
Safety & Compliance
US Coast Guard
Easytrader, thanks for the response.

I am not a fan of any of the flat rate systems, which I have seen, as compared with FedEx Custom Critical’s current percentage based system. We have been on percentage since we started expediting 19 years ago and have watched dozens of carriers enter the fray with flat rate systems. We’ve stayed with the same carrier because we believe that, over the long run, receipt of a percentage of the wide range of expedite tariffs is more beneficial, to the Owner/Operator than a flat rate per mile. We also believe that the most financially successful operators are leased to one of two percentage based carriers, Landstar Express America and FedEx Custom Critical.

I suspect the statistical average or better compensated FCC O/O’s would not agree with your flat rate revenues. I say this based on the FCC published figures for 2006 – 2007 which are as follows for ‘D’ truck solos and teams, respectively: Average pay including FSC per loaded mile was $2.10 and $1.70. Average pay per mile for all loaded and authorized deadhead miles was $1.13 and $1.25. It should be noted that these figures are average and there are a sizeable number of Owners that earn well in excess of the Solo operator’s $69,768 and team operator’s $148,224. Those teams that want to work for their goose, while being selective of their load acceptance choices, will easily exceed the average pay per mile and the $200,000 threshold.

Our FSC is now based on keeping a 9 mpg straight truck effective fuel cost at $1.25 per mile and, unlike many other carriers, is paid at a flat rate on all loaded or authorized deadhead miles.

FCC now compensates owners for tolls on suggested routing on most loads; we are not likely to get free Qualcomm usage any more than we are likely to have our telephone bills paid by the carrier.

As an independent contractor, we already receive any minimum we choose for each load, including $450. We simply decline any offer that does not meet our minimum requirements on any given day. We want all run offers for which we are eligible, even the 150 mile, $400 run that occasionally, albeit rarely, is offered.

I think we can accept the premise that expedite tariffs are market driven, not carrier determined; therefore, FCC does not set the tariffs on most of the freight we haul. If they chose to increase general freight rates much above that of the competition, FCC would no longer be the competition, they’d be the alsoran and the contractors would seek a lease elsewhere. I think that our carrier must continue to accept some of the low and poorly paid freight to maintain a service that will keep the customer coming back with their premium tariff emergency freight. Neither of us may be willing to tote that load, but if we don’t, someone else will and we will be the loser in the long run. So, how many trucks does it take on average, to cover any load? A few years ago, one of the FCC VP’s said that it takes three telephone calls to dispatch a load. If that is true today, then simply speaking, it would take a fleet of 1500 in service trucks to satisfy 500 customers. How many trucks are enough? There is no easy solution and contrary to popular belief, it costs any carrier approximately $4000 to sign-on a team in a straight or T/T truck.

We recently visited a small town that had one fire truck in the fire station. They had not had a fire in two and a half years. Did they have one truck too many or not enough trucks? I think that is analogous to the expedite freight business. What ratio of trucks to loads must a carrier have to satisfy the customer while keeping an independent contractor interested in staying available? Some food for thought, perhaps.
 

pjjjjj

Veteran Expediter
Great post!

I'm curious though.. if they need 1500 trucks to cover 500 customers/loads, why not just have something like 750 trucks, and post the no-pays to the load boards?
 

nightcreacher

Veteran Expediter
Great post!

I'm curious though.. if they need 1500 trucks to cover 500 customers/loads, why not just have something like 750 trucks, and post the no-pays to the load boards?
you want to know why the 1500 trucks for 750 loads,on any given day,25% of the trucks will be out of service, and somtimes even more,25% of the trucks will be on a 2 day run,now your down to 750 trucks,with 25% of drivers turning the loads down.When you have drivers,not the owners, on a 60/40 plan,most of them dont know operating cost.They feel they should be able to get their advance and after buying fuel have thier paycheck in hand,so when they figure what a load will cost,if their isnt money left over for their repective pay,they turn the loads down.On pecentage,the real money is in short loads,but as most teams only think in the box of lots of miles,many loads are turned down,that could be money makers.In my acceptance levals,I have more turn downs on loads over 300 than loads under 300.Now which do you think is better, flat rate or pecentage?I dont care to run my truck into the ground to make the money I need, on a flat rate system.Now the load boards,Most of the companies have whatt are called business partners with owner opps that have their own athority,they use these people everyday,thats how the loads that end up turned down by everyone get covered,like being put on load board,but these are valuable customers,so you cant just give a load to anyone.
 
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EASYTRADER

Expert Expediter
Nightcreature- I wouldn't work on the contract you described either. Conway was trying to burn both ends of the candle.
Most flat rate plans I've looked at SUCK which is why I don't run that way now. IT may well be the old FECC flat rate plan wasn't well thought out which is why it ****ed people off.

As for Landstar and FECC owners making more money because of their pay plan that may be the case. I was under the impression
that FECC is able to charge more to the customer than other carriers therefore they pay more to the truck. The net earnings at FECC reflect their higher rates.


lets say for example you bought a brand new truck with zero miles on the odometer
leased onto your company and in the course of the year you ran your odometer up to 110k and your 1099 showed 250k in earnings what is your actual per mile pay rate?

250/110 =2.27 for all miles

regaurdless of your pay plan for the year at the end of any pay period you DO have a permile rate whether you feel you do or not.

Im with a percentage carrier because the flat rate carriers have low rates and confusing pay planss in general. Also because when I crunched the numbers I figured I would do better where I am.

that is a reflection of the carrier you work with and not so much the pay plan.

FXGround pays per mile. They have some of the highest paid and happiest contractors
in general frieght. Which is a reflection of the company culture not the method of calculating compensation.

Some comapanies seek to screw their business partners and others don't.

If P2 went percentage their fleet would still average less income per mile than Landstar or FECC because their rates are lower.

Anyway, if the high TD rate isn't fixed the comapany will have to put on more trucks which is bad for us.
 

nightcreacher

Veteran Expediter
1st of all,fedex ground drivers,go out and back,they are mostly on bid runs,and run more miles in a week than i run in two weeks.their mileage pay isnt anything to brag about.they buy thier fuel at company facilities mostly,1.25 per gallon,and are very close to being company drivers.the owners there are happy 'cause its easy to keep drivers that get to be home evrey other day and week ends.show me a 1 truck owner that stays at ground,almost everyowner has a fleet,and with 20 trucks you sure dont need a big profit from each one.dont tell me about ground,i have some very good friends there,my bottom line is better with 1 truck than most with 2,my buddy has 20,and yes hes happy as a pig in poop.Oh and you bring up landstar,Express america is their expedite company,i ad an agen try recruit me years ago when i delivered a load for him,as they used fecc to cover thir loads then.Landstar just doesnt haul expedite,each and every driver works the load boards,sure if you are hooked up with an agent tthats connected,it helps,i cab go to Lanstar right now,a good friend of mines wife is an agent,he doesnt even lease to landstar,so dont put landstar in the same league as FECC.if you want true expedite,this is what you get,if your willing to haul FAK,then Landstar might be the place,Panther runs a similar system,depending on the load boards.i hauled a load,about a month ago,the pick up was less than a mile from my apartment.The man told me he usually uses panther when he need expedite,as they are cheaper,but this load had to be in Nebraska the next day,and Panther didnt have a team.that load payed me enough money to deliver it and dead head to chicago with money left over from my advance,i did get a relocation run to chicago,that just sweatened the pot.and for my all miles pay,it was higher than the pay scale at Panther,or the other flat rate systems
 
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greg334

Veteran Expediter
I was under the impression
that FECC is able to charge more to the customer than other carriers therefore they pay more to the truck. The net earnings at FECC reflect their higher rates.

This is the problem, it used to be.

FedEx has moved to integrate some of the CC services they offer into other parts of the company, giving the customer options. A wise move that they do this to a point. The problem in doing so is what I describe last year is that some intake agents assume that the customer does not know what they want or they are told to direct X amount of business to Freight or Express, not CC. Last year, I said that they ignored my plea to send a sales person to a customer which showed me they are not focusing on selling the CC services as they did in the past but FedEx services as a whole. That customer now uses Panther for their expedited shipments, even though I am trying to talk them into Landstar, it is a hard sell because they feel abandoned.

Coupled this with a staff who is not on commission but may have to keep up numbers solely for reviews, it leaves the system with holes that needs to be filled in order to make that statement true again. It could happen.

Landstar is different, yes it is a percentage system, but this is a system that FedEx should be looking at, not Panther's.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
We have already seen a trickle in other posts. I am wondering how long it will be before Greg starts the flow about why he cannot make money at Landstar either, and how the reasons have to do with decisons the carrier makes, not with decisions he makes.

Sorry, Greg. I have about hit my limit with your ongoing mantra that your failures are FedEx's fault. Some people make it at FedEx and others do not. If it was FedEx's fault, everyone would fail. And before you go there, I reject your assertion that FedEx plays favorites. You have zero proof of that and I know of dispatchers that have been fired for playing favorites. FedEx policies prohibit the playing of favorites, and those policies are enforced.

I want people researching the industry to know that not everyone fails at FedEx Custom Critical, and not everyone fails for the reasons Greg gives. There are a bunch of us, both in WG and Surface Expedite trucks that are doing quite well, thank you. One person's failure, for whatever reason, does not mean all others are destined to follow suit.
 
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EASYTRADER

Expert Expediter
sometimes I thnik you guys purposly try to MISS the point.

FXGROUND is not a expedite company which is why I specified they are general frieght.

I was not comparing our rates to thiers because that is apples to
oranges. But I was seeking to compare company culture.

reguardless of the pay plan if the company culture is good OO do better.

I need a wall to bang my head against!!!
 

ratwell71

Veteran Expediter
This plan works for you and your situation. I would rather turn down the ones I don't want and leave the financial decision of how much I want to make to me not the company. Are you accounting for economic changes? I don't think so.

Like I said before this may work for your situation but not the whole. I would stop working for my company if they went this route.

I like making decisions that affect my pocket profit even if at times it is just chump change. LOL
 

nightcreacher

Veteran Expediter
im starting to believe this thread is turning into just another truck driver squable.you know, truck drivers fighting are like pigs in mud,they love it.My 1st truck driving job,back in the 70's was on a percentage contract,my second was miles and hours,and third was percentage again.in 1977,union scale was 23cpm and 9.32 /hour,i was on a percentage contract,getting 29% of the gross,as a union driver,the truck i was driving grossed 1.2/mile,all mies.my pay was far and above union scale,and yes, we were permitted to turn down freight. i went from a little less than 800 bucks a week,to over 1000 a week,of course,take away my surcharge now,my mileage pay isn't much different than it was in 1977,but thats only do to my own dead head policy,im willing to deadhead for free if im given the wrong layover point.
 
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