fedex o/o want to be paid as employees
- Thread starter fastrod
- Start date
Yes, it could really shake things up, but where actions like this have been brought before, it has not. Various courts have made rulings on this in local cases in years past. I'm not sure how the cases played out in the long run but it is clear that they have not shaken things up much, if at all.
I don't have the patience to find that link so early in the morning, but this issue has been ongoing for some time. Many owner/operators at FedEx Ground believe that the defined uniforms, defined truck and defined routes and hours place them in the category of employee more than independent contractor. They have won at least one law suit in California that has not been resolved in the appeal process.
FedEx Ground and FedEx Custom Critical are separate operating companies.
FedEx Ground and FedEx Custom Critical are separate operating companies.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Yawn....
Wasn't this brought up a few years back?
This won't change a thing for us, but if this happens it may have a rippling effect with some of the other carriers who depend on O/Os' which will be interesting.
I also think that they are shooting themselves in the foot, what they will gain is benefits, what they will lose is the freedom that they enjoy and closing the door for others who work within the system and make a living at it.
Wasn't this brought up a few years back?
This won't change a thing for us, but if this happens it may have a rippling effect with some of the other carriers who depend on O/Os' which will be interesting.
I also think that they are shooting themselves in the foot, what they will gain is benefits, what they will lose is the freedom that they enjoy and closing the door for others who work within the system and make a living at it.
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
All comes down to greed. If you don't like the rules, go somewhere else. Wanna see more rules? Become an employee. They'll be sorry if they win.
-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!
-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!
With those restrictions, they already are employees. Of course they have the luxury of paying their own truck costs and other insurances.
There isn't much there to classify them as independant contractors.
I think it will be an up hill battle to prove they are.
Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator
There isn't much there to classify them as independant contractors.
I think it will be an up hill battle to prove they are.
Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator
FedEx Ground won suits because they have to wear uniforms , have set routes , and cannot pick and choose loads like other o/o's . They will not lose any freedom . They have none . Teamsters are ready to move in and unionize them when the dust settles .
http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2006/11/18/union_makes_inroads_at_fedex/
http://www.fedexwatch.org/ . FedEx Ground was formerly Roadway Package Service
http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2006/11/18/union_makes_inroads_at_fedex/
http://www.fedexwatch.org/ . FedEx Ground was formerly Roadway Package Service
Info on this subject can be found at www.fedexamier.com
Well, I can tell you this much from personal experience. I signed on with RPS , (Roadway package systems), in 1996 , shortly there after fed-ex took over and there was rejoicing all around...for about three seconds. At the time, We were paid a 40 dollar a day docking fee. Which meant basically that if your truck was available for loading the night before, (which of course it was because of that very stipulation in your contract), you would receive the 40 dollars. Then you would receive 1 dollar per stop with an average of 60 to 80 stops per day plus a daily stipend of whatever they appropriated for expenses to get you to "your" area. In my case, my area started 14 miles from the terminal, so i was given 25 dollars per day. You could also receive daily bonus money for bringing your truck back empty. So, if you basically worked very hard, ( the same standards were put forth as the standards used by UPS, those being one delivery every six minutes. Whether it be buisness or residential.), you could gross 800, or maybe 1000 dollars weekly. Minus your truck lease, ($725 per month), your insurance,($35 per week), your scanner, ($15 per week?), Your fuel and uniform, and your penaltys for not brining back an empty truck, your chargebacks for damaged and missing pieces, (like leaving a box at a residential site even though you have a signed door hanger but they say they never received the package), Plus any money you may have to pay a casual driver to deliver your route if you're sick or have a dentist appointment or whatever. So, while you're bringing home three or four hundred per week on your broken back, the UPS guy is waving his thousand dollar bring home check in your face while talking about using his health insurance benefits to get his shots so he can take his two week paid vacation to the Bahama's. The most frustrating part to me was that when i quit and had to find some chump to take over my lease and buy my route, (which incidentally never "sold", but was actually given away), The ops manager told me to target someone who has a low level job, like at mcdonald's, because a truck driver who is used to making 5 or 6 hundred dollars a week would be mad once he see's his bottom line but if you get over on some poor urban guy who is only making 200 dollars a week, well, a three or four hundred dollar a week job to him, is something he will kiss your feet over. So, you can imagine, when we heard fed-ex was taking over, we were all dreaming of the 17 buck's an hour, and the benefits that they were paying their express drivers. What a shock when they brought us all in one morning for a meeting to "adress our concerns" "don't worry" they said in soothing over tones " nothing will change !", And nothing did. Except a bunch of us quit shortly there after.
WOW! I'm so glad this site is here! It's so much cheaper than therapy :7
WOW! I'm so glad this site is here! It's so much cheaper than therapy :7
I had a route in northern CA and eventually sold it. On of my happier moments...
The job sucked!! Mgt would require too many delivery stops and based everything on an 11 hour day without any breaks. The terminal was short 2 contractors and it threw everyone into a bind. If you were unable to get all the packages delivered, the term mgr. tried to pull your contract. It was Forced dispatch on steroids..
On the positive side, you knew you would have 2 days off every week and the perks were ok. Lots of discounts for tires, vehicles, etc..There was also a matching funds plan if you kept a certain amount in Fedex sponsored emergency account.
I've often wondered if its the same pressure in Fedex Custom Critical... but, I doubt it..
The job sucked!! Mgt would require too many delivery stops and based everything on an 11 hour day without any breaks. The terminal was short 2 contractors and it threw everyone into a bind. If you were unable to get all the packages delivered, the term mgr. tried to pull your contract. It was Forced dispatch on steroids..
On the positive side, you knew you would have 2 days off every week and the perks were ok. Lots of discounts for tires, vehicles, etc..There was also a matching funds plan if you kept a certain amount in Fedex sponsored emergency account.
I've often wondered if its the same pressure in Fedex Custom Critical... but, I doubt it..
To All;
Imagine the ramifications of this ruling to the small fleet owner who has treated his or her drivers as independent contractors, or to the small trucking company that has truely treated it's owner-operators as such.
Just food for thought.
HotFr8Recruiter
Imagine the ramifications of this ruling to the small fleet owner who has treated his or her drivers as independent contractors, or to the small trucking company that has truely treated it's owner-operators as such.
Just food for thought.
HotFr8Recruiter
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
I doubt it would have any ramifications to someone who trully treats their contractors as contractors. However, it could be he11 to companies that demand their contractors take every run, no matter what.
-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!
-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!
You are safe if you follow very basic items that are provided by the IRS. Go to www.irs.gov for clarification.
If still unsure about your personal situation, I would contact your CPA or attorney for further consultation.
Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator
If still unsure about your personal situation, I would contact your CPA or attorney for further consultation.
Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator
>You are safe if you follow very basic items that are
>provided by the IRS. Go to www.irs.gov for clarification.
>If still unsure about your personal situation, I would
>contact your CPA or attorney for further consultation.
I would add that you are safe if you follow the basic IRS guidlines and the VERY SPECIFIC guidlines spelled out by each state; which differ from state to state.
When she practiced law, Diane's specialty was workers' compensation. Disability claims often hinged on defining whether a person was an employee or not. When I start talking about employee or independent contractor definitions, she is quick to point out that an independent contractor in one state could be defined as an employee in another.
That probably explains why no one has tried to bring a national class-action suit against FedEx Ground on the above-mentioned issues. State laws vary too much for such a one-size-fits-all approach.
These definitions are not cut and dry. People who are at stake for how employees and contractors are defined under federal AND state law should consult labor-law attornys. An attorney competent in that field will know what laws apply, how they apply, and where.
>provided by the IRS. Go to www.irs.gov for clarification.
>If still unsure about your personal situation, I would
>contact your CPA or attorney for further consultation.
I would add that you are safe if you follow the basic IRS guidlines and the VERY SPECIFIC guidlines spelled out by each state; which differ from state to state.
When she practiced law, Diane's specialty was workers' compensation. Disability claims often hinged on defining whether a person was an employee or not. When I start talking about employee or independent contractor definitions, she is quick to point out that an independent contractor in one state could be defined as an employee in another.
That probably explains why no one has tried to bring a national class-action suit against FedEx Ground on the above-mentioned issues. State laws vary too much for such a one-size-fits-all approach.
These definitions are not cut and dry. People who are at stake for how employees and contractors are defined under federal AND state law should consult labor-law attornys. An attorney competent in that field will know what laws apply, how they apply, and where.
article.
"Unions have lost 44 out of 46 votes by FedEx drivers over the years, and in the two cases where they won, the locals were unable to negotiate contracts,...."
I remain convinced that while these cases have the potential to really shake things up, the liklihood that they will is very low.
From the votes, it seems clear that there is not exactly a groundswell of support for unionization from FedEx Ground contractors. Beyond the union question, if FedEx Ground is ever required by the court to reclassify its contractors as employees, FedEx will likely do so. But if they do, so what? UPS runs a successful package business with employees. FedEx will figure out how to do so too if it comes to that. FedEx Freight uses employee drivers. Making FedEx Ground drivers employees would not be much of a stretch.
What would that mean for Custom Critical? Not much. The work we do and our contract terms are quite different from what is in play with FedEx Ground.
As a FedEx Custom Critical contractor, I would fiercely oppose attempts to unionize "us" or reclassify Custom Critical contractors as employees. If that battle was ever begun and "we" lost, Diane and I would simply pick up our ball (truck) and go home (to a new carrier/contractor relationship if a good one was then available, or to running as independent owner-operators under our own authority).
We couldn't be happier with the contractor relationship and opportunities we have with FedEx Custom Critical. We need a boss and the Teamsters in our lives about as much as we need cancer.
Whatever may happen in the legal and union arenas, there will always be freight to haul, and there will always be independent owner-operators that find profitable ways to do it. Part of the joy of being a (solvent) self-employed independent contractor is the freedom to adapt when things change.
"Unions have lost 44 out of 46 votes by FedEx drivers over the years, and in the two cases where they won, the locals were unable to negotiate contracts,...."
I remain convinced that while these cases have the potential to really shake things up, the liklihood that they will is very low.
From the votes, it seems clear that there is not exactly a groundswell of support for unionization from FedEx Ground contractors. Beyond the union question, if FedEx Ground is ever required by the court to reclassify its contractors as employees, FedEx will likely do so. But if they do, so what? UPS runs a successful package business with employees. FedEx will figure out how to do so too if it comes to that. FedEx Freight uses employee drivers. Making FedEx Ground drivers employees would not be much of a stretch.
What would that mean for Custom Critical? Not much. The work we do and our contract terms are quite different from what is in play with FedEx Ground.
As a FedEx Custom Critical contractor, I would fiercely oppose attempts to unionize "us" or reclassify Custom Critical contractors as employees. If that battle was ever begun and "we" lost, Diane and I would simply pick up our ball (truck) and go home (to a new carrier/contractor relationship if a good one was then available, or to running as independent owner-operators under our own authority).
We couldn't be happier with the contractor relationship and opportunities we have with FedEx Custom Critical. We need a boss and the Teamsters in our lives about as much as we need cancer.
Whatever may happen in the legal and union arenas, there will always be freight to haul, and there will always be independent owner-operators that find profitable ways to do it. Part of the joy of being a (solvent) self-employed independent contractor is the freedom to adapt when things change.
Continuing in the food for thought mode, I read (skimmed) the California Court of Appeal decison filed 8/13/07. Of greatest interest to me was one of the Court's findings:
"[FedEx Ground] Drivers work full time and exclusively for FedEx, and must work every day FedEx provides service unless they have preapproved replacements. FedEx sets the drivers’ work hours (9.5 to 11 hours a day), and the average driver has worked for FedEx for eight years, with an annual income of $35,000 to $50,000 after expenses."
Average tenure of eight years? $35,000 to $50,000 annual income AFTER expenses? If things are so terrible at FedEx Ground, why do people stay so long? There are other package delivery companies, are there not?
"[FedEx Ground] Drivers work full time and exclusively for FedEx, and must work every day FedEx provides service unless they have preapproved replacements. FedEx sets the drivers’ work hours (9.5 to 11 hours a day), and the average driver has worked for FedEx for eight years, with an annual income of $35,000 to $50,000 after expenses."
Average tenure of eight years? $35,000 to $50,000 annual income AFTER expenses? If things are so terrible at FedEx Ground, why do people stay so long? There are other package delivery companies, are there not?
greg334
Veteran Expediter
I think out of all of this, raynchk actually speaks about the real issues that some have been dealing with.
As for what I know, being a contractor and part owner of a consulting company which had a lot of contractors, this all looks like the teamsters are behind it to increase membership - nothing more and it will ruin it for many. Just because a contractor sometimes ends up with more of the required 12 points out of 20, IT does not mean they are employees, there has to be a record of being consistently passed those 12 points. There are a lot of court cases that has defined what employees or contractors are. In the case of a ground line haul contractor, there is no reason that they should refuse work or not wear a uniform.
AND
I also know that bringing labor issues (which the DoL would have something to do with it more than the IRS)to court is a complicated and long process, I know I been there. States have one set of laws but they are all overshadowed by the LRA 1938 and the latest revision.
Oh This will not affect us.
As for what I know, being a contractor and part owner of a consulting company which had a lot of contractors, this all looks like the teamsters are behind it to increase membership - nothing more and it will ruin it for many. Just because a contractor sometimes ends up with more of the required 12 points out of 20, IT does not mean they are employees, there has to be a record of being consistently passed those 12 points. There are a lot of court cases that has defined what employees or contractors are. In the case of a ground line haul contractor, there is no reason that they should refuse work or not wear a uniform.
AND
I also know that bringing labor issues (which the DoL would have something to do with it more than the IRS)to court is a complicated and long process, I know I been there. States have one set of laws but they are all overshadowed by the LRA 1938 and the latest revision.
Oh This will not affect us.
Almost as if on cue, this story appeared on EO's home page.
http://www.expeditersonline.com/artman/publish/article_006164.html
http://www.expeditersonline.com/artman/publish/article_006164.html