Evolution or Revolution

mrgoodtude

Not a Member
Expedite has changed so much in the short time we have been participants, so many companies have sprung up in the last 2 years and many more people have made a career switch to this industry.
My question is what next??? Competition lowers price points, it is the American way. Ma bell to cell phones to Mc donalds we want faster cheaper better and never seem to have a problem finding a more than willing vendor. Epes recently made their presence in the market known (please don't take offense) and I believe their business was built on truckload. I don't have a problem with competition but I don't want to be a ostrich with my head in the sand either. My experience with both segments of the industry leaves me with the dilemma of 2 ways to run. Cheap with all the freight I can handle "or" profitable with limited freight possibilities. My fear is we are in the midst of an evolution or convergence of the two and expedite as we know it will cease to exist. My last question is this if we are to evolve with the industry how low would we be willing adjust our rates to keep the wheels turning? 1.00 all miles plus FSC? Or if we choose to revolt by rejecting cheap freight will truckload evolve, step up to the plate and provide shippers with a .99 cent value menu? How low could we go per mile and still be profitable? Would we want to?
I would sincerely like your thoughts.
Mike
 

MichTish

Seasoned Expediter
Mike:

You've raised some of the best realistic scenarios i've ever read here on EO. I applaud your intellectual observations.

I personally have just over a years worth of actual experience. But, i'm surrounded by friends, family and owners whose experience in expediting spands two decades. They all echo the type of concern you mentioned in your initial post. The immediate expediting future,as we know it, is most deffinatly in jeopardy.

There's absolutly NO DOUBT that the major carriers across America are going to eventually consume or absorb the expediting segment into their business model. As weve seen with Walmart, the Biggies of transportation will indeed absorb expedite freight. Its the capitalist way. It will happen.

On the other hand, specialized vehicles will always have a solid niche in our business. Its unfortunate that the moderators on this forum have continually bashed the ideals of Mr. Phil Madsen. Apparently his educated approach to "staying alive" rubs those without long term vision the wrong way. My fleet owner and others i'm close to, are activly adapting their current and future vehicles with the type of amenitities Mr. Madsen chose with his new vehicle. In the long term, off the shelf straight trucks will become Dinosaurs, as the major players in our business adapt to the inevitable changes soon to come. Specialized vehicles will always have a future in expediting and will be exempt from the cheap freight headaches.
 

x06col

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Army
I'm not sure how more companys "springing up" equates to "cheap freight". We have been providing a "value added service" now for several years. Our customer don't have to play telephone tag with dispatchers and others to get "real time info" they can talk directly with the driver. After all they are the drivers "customer".
We take care of our customers freight, even if we really don't want to go there. It's part of cementing a long term, trusting, and loyal relationship that most O/O don't understand, or, don't care about. That is why many don't last long here. It is truly evolution. O/O must provide equipment that gives shippers every reason possible to put freight on their truck. To my way of thinking, and doing business, a truck with a sleeper larger than the business end, is not the way to evolve. Off the shelve trucks have been dinasaurs for a long time now. I feel the days of slamming 4-5 skids on a truck,aiming it down the road, going "where we want", while hitting a "home run" are certainly getting shorter. There still is nothing wrong with "earning" what we reap.
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I'm not so sure that the transportation "biggies" will absorb the
expedite freight. Just two weeks ago a major transportation carrier divested itself of an expedite unit. Just prior to that unit's 10 year anniversary. I suspect they saw more competetion and declining profits. Both good business reasons to pull the plug on a small contributor to overall corporate profits.

I do see the expedite industry mirroring the truckload industry with a few large companies dominating. These companies will offer the customers cheaper rates which will increase expedite tonnage. Customers who found traditional expedite services cost prohibitive may now start using these services more often.

And like the truckload segment these large carriers will consume and spit out O/O and drivers at an amazing rate. To survive in the TL segment many small companies and O/O find a niche and offer a specialized or premium service to its customers. I believe ATeam is ahead of the curve like Noah. Many people think why build an ark, the sun is shining.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
As things slim down for the expediter, I think those with specialized services will hold out for a bit longer. However, it won't be long before the norm will turn towards having a reefer and liftgate. You already see it happening. Ateam stated his dilusion that what happens in expedite won't affect him. I contest that ppl are prone to move toward what makes the most money at the time. And, if that's reefer and liftgate, then so be it. If the bottom ever fell out of expediting, Ateam will have plenty of company in his little niche. Others are already building their arks.
 

MichTish

Seasoned Expediter
Excuse me for one second, but the content of my post was not a invite to throw childish comments at another fellow driver.

The owners I work for began a long term plan at upscaling their vehicles years ago. I can assure you decisions that were made in this regard were based on statistical forecasting, not some dilusion.

The unnecessary personal attacks on Mr. Madsen has really gotten out of hand. Appears to me the poor man can't make one single post without some smart-arsed remark soon following. Moderators on this forum don't help the situation by themselves piling on.

This is an excellent forum with tons of fantastic resourses. There can be no benefit to this continued attempt to defame a mans business decisions.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Where do you get bashing out of what I said? You stated one thing, and I stated my opinion, both agreeing and opposing it.

The DILLUSION I was refering to was Ateam's statement:

"Today, as an expediter, I hear talk of small companies getting bigger, competition driving down the cost of freight, established companies losing ground to upstarts or other competitors, etc.

That does not affect me. Diane and I drive a highly-specialized truck. The truck and its drivers are equipped and qualified to provide a number of value-added that certain shippers seek. These shippers are willing to pay top dollar for our expedited freight transport services."

All I'm saying is that if the money is in specialized freight, that's where Tom, Dik, and Harry will invest. Soon, like what has happened in expediting in general, the specialized area of expediting will see an overflow in both companies that will get into the field, and trucks used to haul the stuff. It happens in every area of business. Ppl go where the money is. Those who got into it early are lucky, as they're making the money now. But the belt will eventually tighten on them as well.

One other thing. You'd think Dr.Phil would've learned that bragging about where he found the nugget would bring a lot more miners.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Sorry, but if someone contests or challenges someone on a post, I don't think that is personally attacking someone. I think you are confusing the two. It is a forum. If everyone agreed on everything, there would be little to talk about.
If one puts confrontational posts out there, they likely will get confrontational answers.
As far as someones business plan, if it is working for them, then stick with it. That is much different than whether it is the best plan, or the only one available. There are numerous ways to operate this type of business.
Expediting continues to evolve and whether specialized trucks are in huge demand in the future is hard to tell. I agree with Hawk in that if they are, everyone will migrate to that sector. Just the same as many have to expediting from the truckload side. The slowdown in 2000-2001 effected the specialty trucks as much as it did the others. We bought numerous reefer trucks for pennies on the dollar then from bankrupt drivers. There is no part of trucking that is "immune" from competition.
That would be in my opinion, a foolish assumption.
Unless your running under your own authority or obtain your own freight, you are only successful
if the carrier can obtain freight.
If the answer was already known, buying a truck would be easy.
If you look at current forcasting, neither reefers, liftgates, or dry vans come up the winners overall. The strongest demand is for flatbeds and stepdecks. A look at any load board regardless of location will tell that story.









Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator
 

x06col

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Army
BINGO. That is precisely why half my fleet are curtainsides. We can do it all. However, they are way too much work for most.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Your right. It can get easy to look at part of a picture, rather than ALL of it.







Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Tenneseahawk said, "All I'm saying is that if the money is in specialized freight, that's where Tom, Dik, and Harry will invest. Soon, like what has happened in expediting in general, the specialized area of expediting will see an overflow in both companies that will get into the field, and trucks used to haul the stuff. It happens in every area of business. Ppl go where the money is. Those who got into it early are lucky, as they're making the money now. But the belt will eventually tighten on them as well.

One other thing. You'd think Dr.Phil would've learned that bragging about where he found the nugget would bring a lot more miners."

You are not wrong, Tenneseahawk, but you are not entirely right either. There is more to the picture than the market and one truck's place in it. I am optimistic about the future and confident in the value-added aspect of our business plan because Diane and I are not in business alone. We have a contractual relationship with FedEx Custom Critical in which FedEx does a lot for us and we for them.

One of the things FedEx has done for its drivers for many years is develop new markets. Expediting itself was invented by FedEx's predecessor company, Roberts Express. As competitors emerge and price competition develops (as you correctly observes), FedEx has distinguished itself from all other expediting carriers by developing new and lucrative markets.

FedEx developed White Glove. FedEx developed expedited reefer freight. FedEx developed Temperature validated freight. FedEx developed a niche for itself in the museum art market. FedEx expanded into high-value car transport with the purchase of Pasport Transport (yet another specialized-truck, value added business model).

My confidence in the future is based partly in my confidence in FedEx. Before expediting was invented a chorus of nay-sayers could have been stirred up to pooh-pooh the concept. Fred Smith, the founder of FedEx once wrote a college paper about how overnight letter delivery could happen. His business school professor pooh-poohed the idea saying it would never work.

Ideas that seem strange today sometimes turn out to be big money makers tomorrow. FedEx is not today trying to figure out how to get more NLM freight. Visionary and intelligent people in Custom Critical are thinking instead about how to turn $2.00 a mile freight into $3.00 a mile freight.

Because we have confidence in our carrier's ability to develop new and lucrative markets after the bottom feeders have moved in to previously-developed markets, we have confidence in our future as well.

That's why we were happy to spec our truck for White Glove service. It's a business relationship. We do a lot for FedEx (provide a specialized truck and qualified drivers). They do a lot for us (develop customers that will use that truck to ship freight, plus all the other stuff like permits, dispatch, etc.).

In other words, we have hitched our wagon to a star, and the star is FedEx Custom Critical. But if FedEx Custom Critcial were to evaporate off the map tomorrow, the need for specialized trucks would still exist and we would simply find another carrier or get our own authority to continue on.

Another item that supports our optimism is more personal. Long before our truck has lived out its useful life, it will be paid for and we will be once again debt free. The future tough times that frighten some people do not frighten us at all. We're prepared to haul freight if it is there and to sit if it is not.

Heck, if times got really slow, and loads only come once every week or two; with our truck configured as it is, we could live in it for an extended period of time while working day-labor jobs between loads.

If things got that bad, we'd have no trouble meeting expenses and continuing to add to our net worth. That would be partly due to the kind of day labor we'd do. Diane is an RN and attorney. I have computer and sales skills. The day jobs we'd get would not be corner-office positions but they would pay well above minimum wage.

If things worked out even worse than that, it might go that we'd deliver an $0.80 per mile load in the morning, find a place to park that day, contact day labor companies that afternoon, and work in that town as we waited for the next cheap-freight load; Diane emptying bed pans at a hospital and me doing data-entry by night and pitching meatballs in a grocery store aisle by day. At the end of the week, we'd still be able to put a penny or two in the piggy bank.

If the doomsday predictions come true and only those who can haul cheap freight will survive, our simple lifestyle, debt-free status, ability to live long-term in our truck, and skills beyond truck driving will leave us standing as fierce competitors. Unless they operate at a loss, no one will be able to run freight cheaper than us and add to their savings too.

The good news, we believe, is we won't have to compete for freight on the basis of price alone. We'll leave the frozen fish and dash board knobs to others as we provide added value to our carrier that will continue to develop new and lucrative markets for us and our truck.

As for keeping the source of the nugget secret, I disagree. The more people know about the White Glove and Elite Services opportunity, the more people will seek to come in (as you correctly observe). The more people come in, the more selective recuriters can be. The more selective recruiters can be, the more competitive drivers will have to be to make the White Glove or Elite Services grade. The better drivers become, the better our customers will be served. The better our customers are served, the more likely it is they will use our carrier next time or return to it after trying another. The more customers return to our carrier, the more business there will be.

We are not talking about a mine in the ground where there is a finite quantity of gold and an infinite number of people who can swarm in with nothing more than a shovel. We're talking about markets that can be invented, expanded, niched in to, acquired and even abandoned (like to NLM) in favor of more lucrative endeavors.

My take on the future is no better than anyone elses. The above analysis could be entirely wrong. If so, please stop by my booth at the grocery store and try a meatball. You'll find me happy to be there too and praising my empolyer.
 

geo

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Navy
i read alot and listen , and look to the furture, and the past and everything comes and go in circle's,

like newton law of physics for every action there is equal and oppose action

so the people who see the change coming and learn to change as the wind blows will alway do well

when i saw the price of fuel and hours of service change need to step back and look what do i want to do to keep driving

egl was on a contract and i was working it and when reading how the new hour's of service were going to work, we started a trial run and found out to make it work one truck would have to come in at 0700 and have everything really for truck number 2 so all he had to do was load and go, and a 3rd truck would coming in and clean up what ever had to be done, and delay about 3 hours so not to over the hours of service
when you had the sleeper you were able to stop the clock with sleeper
with the news of service didn't work that way , but we had time to
figure out how to make it work
right now with a van you don't have to log but you need to still watch it

just say no to cheap freight

trucking and farming have alot in common alot of work for little money
 

hedgehog

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Here we go again.

It's all supply and demand.

Hint: The supply is anyone that can hold a steering wheel and can get from point A: to point B: (on time)

Not too hard with modern GPS systems.

Bankrupt ?? No money to invest in your own future ??

Poor credit rating ??

Not a problem. There are plenty of owners that will let you drive their vehicle.

Get real !!!!!!!!!! There are more expedters than available good paying runs.

Expediting is no longer a secret.

Be safe and face reality.
 

RonnieJ

Seasoned Expediter
Call me stupid, but why would you keep a truck to do odd jobs?
The other guy had a good point. If you had a farm, would you keep it to raise one plant? Not unless your a total moron.
Anywho, glad to be a part of expediters online. We are very new and had the chance to meet Terry, Dave, and Lawrence at the expediter show. Keep up the great work guys. That was like MATTS with a personal touch.
The moderators on here do a great job.
For us new people, we appreciate all your work in seperating the fact from the fiction.
For the Michigan lady, I would read a few more posts, and then think about who you might be defending. My husband and I looked at several weeks of posts not knowing Mr. Madsen and I would say he is just alittle wrapped in himself. His truck story was on the front page. How does one own a truck for less than a month argue with people with alot more experience behind them?
I love this edit feature
RJ
 

Jefferson3000

Expert Expediter
Hedgehog makes a very valid point. Yes, expediting is not a secret anymore. Is it done? Absolutely not. Time sensitive freight will go on, whether by air or by land. It is a great industry. It is just a fact that the amount of freight is not currently growing as fast as new people are entering the market. It's kind of like rock n roll. In the Seventies, it seemed like there were fewer bands, but more that seemed bigger than life. Now any Joe that can hold three chords is pimpin' some "song" on his Myspace page.


It's funny, I used to think about how many miles I could get. Now I am thinking about how few miles I can run to keep the greatest profit.


Drive Safe!

Jeff
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
>Call me stupid, but why would you keep a truck to do odd
>jobs?

We would only be doing odd-jobs if the expediting market declined to near-depression levels. In a depression or severe recession, we'd keep the truck to live in and thus minimize our expenses, and to be ready to recapture a full-time income from expediting once the negative market circumstances cycled through.

We did not get into expediting because we needed the work. We had good jobs before. We got into it because expedting makes lifestyle choices available that our previous jobs did not.

>The other guy had a good point. If you had a farm, would you
>keep it to raise one plant? Not unless your a total moron.

Some of our friends back home still think we are total morons for giving up the white collar jobs and surbaban lifestyle we did to become expediters. But again, expediting is more than an employment choice for us (and a very good one at that). It is a lifestyle choice too.

>I looked at several weeks of posts not knowing Mr. Madsen
>and I would say he is just alittle wrapped in himself. His
>truck story was on the front page. How does one own a truck
>for less than a month argue with people with alot more
>experience behind them?

That is what gets me in the hotseat over and over again; experienced drivers who get irritated because an upstart like me does not respect their experience.

Having three years of expediting experience now, the time will come when I have five years of experience and then ten. At some point, I'll be able to refer to myself as a seasoned veteran. When that day comes, I hope I never do so. If I offer suggestions or advice, I want it to stand on the merits of the suggestions or advice; and not on the fact that I've been an expediter for X number of years or have owned X number of trucks.

Many years of being in the business for a long time does not mean you have been doing it right or well for a long time. It may only mean you have fumbled your way through a hand-to-mouth existence for so many years that poverty is your only retirement option. The day I start believing my ideas should be accepted not because of their merits, but because I'm experienced in the business is the day I shut myself off to the good, money-making ideas that will likely come from people who have never done it before.

When you think about it, expediting had zero experienced people in it before it was invented. The first-ever straight truck with a sleeper had never been done by experienced people before it was done at all. How much experience did seasoned expediters have in the internet before the internet was invented? Same question for Qualcomm, cell phones, trip packs, etc.

Prosperity in expediting does not come from experience alone. The truth of that statement can be sadly demonstrated over and over again by a simple glance at seasoned-veteran expediters who don't have two nickles to rub together.

For every newbie you can point to who went broke because of the lack of experience, I can point to a seasoned truck driver who is still broke because he or she thinks experience is all that matters.

One thing Diane and I noticed almost immediately when we started researching the expediting industry was that people of all experience levels are not just happy but eager to give advice. Ask any expediter any question and answers will spew forth. But the trouble was, many of these eager advice givers were failures in slow motion. They had been in the business many years and they were broke.

Frankly, if the experienced expediters knew what they were talking about, they would have had more to show for than years of effort than a longing to be respected for their experience and eagerness to tell other people how to succeed.
 

MichTish

Seasoned Expediter
Excellent reply Phil.

As you've easily seen, being an educated person and applying that schooled knowledge to our business holds no water here. Apparently, one must have XX number of years experience in order for ones opinions to have merit. I'm certainly not ashamed of my degree and apply certain learned segments, everyday. Thank God, we indeed have alterative skills. I can't imagine the despair knowing that if trucking totally shut down, i'd lose everything I own.
 

x06col

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Army
The tunneled vision, thru rose colored glasses of this dynamic industry certainly keeps many folks from truly being able to be successful. The most successful, by far, of my associates, had no expedite experience, no preconceived ideas of what, where, when it is good or bad. Is able to make things happen wherever he's at, and, git's R done. A flexability and quality that is rare. He in a short period of time has many nickels to rub together. Because, he resisted most advice from those whom shouldn't give it.
 

tec1959

Expert Expediter
Phil I don't why this always turns to the truck you built.It seems like a lot of people here are just jealous of it.As I stated in another post that I think the more opinions you can offer the customer the better off you are.If any one thinks that a reefer,lift gate with pads and straps and heater does not help your bottom line THEN THEY ARE CRAZY....
 
Top