Enough with Panther Bashing...

[Tennesseahawk]

I don't necessarily think they'll implode either. But in this "what if" scenario we're talking about, you only have to look back at 2001 to see my case in point. Most companies shaved 10-20 cents off their rate, and freight dried up to a point where many left the business.

As long as the oil companies are allowed to raise their prices at the first sign of a full moon, a depression will hit us. Along with all the new taxes, inflation, etc., it's only a matter of time before freight dries up. And, granted, White Glove fills a special niche; but to say it's immune to what the rest of expediting experiences is bogus. Companies WILL look for bargains, and can easily shop around for a "bourbon" carrier, rather than staying with the "champaign" of White Glove. As long as a hillbilly with a reefer can go YEEHAW down the road for 1.50/mi, you guys have competition. It just depends on the times.

 

[davekc]

Just a couple of thoughts. The obvious is that it is too earlier to evaluate any kind of impact. Two loads to every truck average isn't far off the mark until you account that only two thirds of their fleet is in service at any given point. Time will tell on these future averages.
The idea that a certain type equipped truck is the "saving grace" is sadly mistaken. It is only a value if your carrier can use it effectively. Your fate is determined in large part by your carriers ability to keep you moving. Unless of course, you have that ability yourself. Panther and a few others gives their drivers that option if they decide to exercise it. Trucks with extra loading equipment or a reefer mean little if a carrier doesn't have the freight to move them.
I agree with Leo on this one. There will be a core set of customers that demand a certain level of service, but most are coverage and price driven. Since it is a small segment, too many trucks makes it unprofitable for the ones involved.
I'm not sure I really see bashing, just the human nature to question change which many will resist regardless of the outcome.
It has always been good advise to look at ALL of the information, rather than just a part of it.






Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[ATeam]

The "sadly mistaken" criticism works except for one thing; the facts.

For many years team drivers have done well in highly-specialized trucks (reefer, lift gate, pads/straps, dollies, etc.) and by offering value-added services (inside deliveries, dual driver protection, labor, etc.) The fact that Panther is trying to expand into that market and recurit such trucks and teams shows there is money to be made in it.

It has been suggested that the number of Free Classifieds ads for White Glove drivers is evidence that the concept does not work. The ads only show that many of the good drivers go on to buy their own trucks, and other drivers who try either decide such work is not for them or they outright fail. But the people running the ads remain, and many of them have been running high-end trucks for decades.

The top-end-truck, value-added services concept is one of many that works in expediting.

In three years of successful expediting in top-end trucks, offering value-added services, I have seen nothing out there to indicate that Diane and I are sadly mistaken. In fact, all the evidence (as in money earned and banked) suggests that we hit a home run the day we decided to position ourselves in the expedting industry as we did.

FedEx could evaporate tomorrow and we'd continue on. The demand for the kind of truck we drive and sevices we offer transcends the method of getting loads through one carrier or another. For now, it is FedEx because no carrier can serve us better.

In the future it may be another carrier or it may be us with our own authority. But I doubt it. We see ourselves as happy FedEx contractors for 15 years to come.

Panther's "me-too" approach to the market FedEx pioneered is just another episode in the ongoing story of expediting. FedEx develops special markets within expediting and others rise and begin to nibble away. If history is an indicator, by the time Panther rounds out it's Elite Services fleet, FedEx will have developed additional value-added markets for Diane and I to prosper in, and for other expediting companies to rise up and nibble away again.

Panther's growth and nibbling into FedEx's market share does not trouble me in the least. Nibbling is not the only thing Panther and other companies do. They expand the market as a whole by making the world more and more aware of expedited services and solidifying the sector of the transportation industry of which we are all part.

Finally, if it ever got to the point where Panther seriously threatened FedEx's ability to meet it's corporate goals, FedEx can simply buy Panther on the open market once Panther shares are publicly available. That would be a heck of a deal. Gain 100 percent control of Panther by purchasing just 51% of its stock.

FedEx has the money to buy Panther. Indeed, FedEx could purchase Panther with its pocket change. Panther does not have the money to buy FedEx. The bigger and better Panther gets, the more attractive it becomes for FedEx to buy it.

Ha! What do you know! I just sold myself on becomming a Panther shareholder. I'll be waiting with money in hand when the Panther shares hit the market. If FedEx can't help me prosper by giving me good loads, Panther drivers and fleet owners can by increasing the value of my shares. Why fight Panther if I don't have to? By hauling freight for FedEx and owning Panther shares, I can take joy in seeing both succeed.

Sarcasm aside, I will indeed be buying some Panther shares. Panther is a plumb waiting to be picked. I've read the preliminary prospectus. The shares seem to me to be a good investment for that portion of our portfolio that we are willing to subject to above-market volitality and risk.

That is our own personal portfolio. The above should not be construed to be investment advice. The suitibility of Panther shares for others is not something I can comment on, since I know nothing about readers' financial circumstances, stock market experience and risk tolerance.

 

[Moot]

Phil,

Your last line says it all. If FEDEX wants to expand, if Con-Way wants to get back into expediting or if any large company wants to enter the market, Panther is available.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

If that's the case, why hasn't FedEx bought UPS and DHL? In any smart stock offering, the company themselves will hold 51% of their own stock, thus eliminating a takeover threat. However, this is not my expertise, so I won't pretend to make it so.

I'm not saying you'll fail thru the hard times, which you haven't seen yet. Being in expediting three years doesn't make you an expert, it's only seen you successful in three years of a good expediting market. I hope you do make it thru the next hard times. But I'll stand by my statement. If you don't think White Glove is affected by what goes on in the rest of expediting, YOU'RE SADLY MISTAKEN!

By the way, Phil, what happened to White Glove in your signature?

 

[tec1959]

I have only 2 things to say,(1) A truck that can offer a company/customer a lift gate with a reeefer with air ride with pads an strips has alot more to offer than just an express truck.(2) Phil I think enough has been said about this,Because its went from bashing Pantherii to bashing White Glove and others like you.Both companies are good companies and hope all the contractors with each company are happy and have a long relationship with each.....

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Who's bashing White Glove? I'm contesting flawed logic. There's a difference.

 

[greg334]

Phil,

You’re funny but you need to come back to reality.

You don’t offer any value until you are truly independent and build a customer base yourself; you are working for a company that decides what value you add to their customer when they sell that service and you fulfill the company’s needs by fulfilling the customers needs with your equipment and experience. If they feel that you have the equipment to fulfill the need of a customer, you will be offer the load.

I agree that your truck configuration offers the best flexibility to fulfill customer’s needs, as you said, FedEx serves your needs and I can see the ROI from the flexibility you have with your truck. Some may think that it is an over kill with some equipment but if you can justify the investment and get that ROI, who cares – as long as you don’t rub it in.

If FedEx purchased 51% to gain control of Panther, I would consider Panther a dead company at that point. Exposing 51% of their stock is a dangerous thing to do and only mismanagement will cause such a thing. You should know it would take only or less than 15% to gain control look at some of the history of takeovers and mergers. I would not buy a share of Panther stock until long after the IPO when it settles down and things become more public. Remember that this is a company that has no trucks, has no warehouse or real assets outside of their offices, computers and customer list. Yea it all looks good in reports but there is more to a company than the annual management reports, but you should know all that. I would not think that FedEx would buy Panther, but I would think either a large trucking company Schneider maybe or maybe another company like FedEx and UPS – DHL comes to mind. I think FedEx would become more aggressive in their marketing and capturing market share than to buy another company.

Oh, please....... who cares about your portfolio. (Sarcasm included)

 

[davekc]

There is always going to be some speculation as to what might happen down the road. You see alot of Fedex driver ads because of a high rate of turnover, not because the vast majority are becoming new truck owners. If so, their fleet would be expanding at great numbers and that isn't happening.
It doesn't mean no one is successful, it is at what percentage.
Fedex has already stated that their short and long term expansion will be the ltl market, rather than specialization.
And like anything, what would make one so sure that Fedex wouldn't sell off Custom Critical? Conway is also LTL, and they sold their expedite division. Fenway couldn't buy all of fedex, but they could pony up the cash for CC. Never say never. Both have the ability to buy the other under the right circumstances.
As far as specialized services, sure their is money in it. You are correct, that is why Panther is pursuing it. They are in a different position because they are entering and expanding that market, rather than trying to retain it.
My money is on some Panther shares as well.






Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[davekc]

I don't see Fedex having a interest in Panther either. Gregg, your last sentence says it all. Fedex wants market share, but not in a specialized capacity. They want market share in the LTL business. That is why it made sense for them to buy Watkins.
Also the same reason the top floor in Green is now LTL offices.
You are also correct in that Phil isn't really controlling anything. His truck is only as good as the load they can put on it.
With Panther adding several hundred trucks in Elite in a short time, it is no secret where most of those customers are coming from.
Back in DEC Panther hired one of Fedex top sales people. Ummm....I wonder what leads he is using? No real secret.
I could see DHL or UPS having a interest in Panther, but not Fedex. They essentially have made little investment in any part of the expedite sector, even when they had the chance to expand it.
CC is essentially a convenience for their customers.
I think that is why the main offices in TN barely acknowledge its existence.
Phil eluded to that in another post.
I do think CC will still have a core of customers that they will keep regardless of what Panther does or doesn't do.
Just my observation.






Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[bernieh48]

Well Dave you are correct in all your have said. When Fed Ex took over Robert's Express they said they didn't even want the expediters to begin with, but the upper ups at Robert's told them they wouldn't sell it unless it was sold as one package. We were with FedEx's white glove division and had drastically seen a reduction in the rates they were paying even for reefer loads and liftgate loads. That is why we chose to leave. When I had done the same load for the exact same customers at the same mileage and the same weight even go down every time we picked it up then that's where I call it quits. Then you try and ask the dispatcher why and they claim it hasn't changed. I even faxed her the previous settlement sheets to prove it to her and she could not explain it. You are also correct on why there are so many owners with white glove trucks looking for drivers. They can't keep them because they are sitting too much and not getting the pay when they do move to make it worth their while. Phil does need to come back to reality. A lot of white glove drivers and owners have come to Panther and have taken some of the customers that specifacally ask for them with them to Panther. They are not the only drivers out there that take pride in how they service the customers. We have bent over backwards for our customers and get rewarded for it all the time. Fed Ex white glove has slowly reaped what they have sowed. There are a lot of us with great service records and all our clearances and DDPS backgrounds that have come to Panther and will do great. For one thing we are all our here to do the same thing, but it seems in Phil's mind he is better than us just because he is with FedEx whitwe glove. Oh well I'll just keep doing it like Frank Sinatra sang "My Way"

 

[ATeam]

>I'm not saying you'll fail thru the hard times, which you
>haven't seen yet. Being in expediting three years doesn't
>make you an expert, it's only seen you successful in three
>years of a good expediting market. I hope you do make it
>thru the next hard times. But I'll stand by my statement. If
>you don't think White Glove is affected by what goes on in
>the rest of expediting, YOU'RE SADLY MISTAKEN!

When hard times come, a number of expediters will fail. Diane and I will not be among them because we are prepared for the hard times. Before entering the business, we went to school on what experienced drivers said about hard times; both those who failed and those who succeeded. We're doing what the successful dirvers do.

>By the way, Phil, what happened to White Glove in your
>signature?

My memory may fail me here but I don't recall ever having the words "White Glove" in my signature. If I did, I don't remember putting them in or taking them out. Perhaps you can refresh my memory or show me different.

 

[ATeam]

>Phil,
>
>You’re funny but you need to come back to reality.
>
>You don’t offer any value until you are truly independent
>and build a customer base yourself;

I respectfully disagree. There are those who sell the freight and those who haul it. Without both, freight would not move. The value we provide is the means to haul the freight. That value is provided directly to our carrier and indirectly to our carrier's customers through our carrier. One does not have to sell the load to provide value to the shipper and be paid for the load.


you are working for a
>company that decides what value you add to their customer
>when they sell that service and you fulfill the company’s
>needs by fulfilling the customers needs with your equipment
>and experience. If they feel that you have the equipment to
>fulfill the need of a customer, you will be offer the load.

You are correct. But again, our part of the value-added proposition is providing the means to haul the freight. Yes, FedEx sets the price, but we are the ones providing the value-added services. We arrive with our truck, wrap the freight in our pads, etc. To a degree, we also set the price. If the load offer is not high enough, we decline the load.

>I agree that your truck configuration offers the best
>flexibility to fulfill customer’s needs, as you said,
>FedEx serves your needs and I can see the ROI from the
>flexibility you have with your truck. Some may think that it
>is an over kill with some equipment but if you can justify
>the investment and get that ROI, who cares – as long as
>you don’t rub it in.

Thank you for understanding that. I readily admit there is a lot of overkill in the truck (8 rows of E-track when fewer are required, tandem drive axles when a lift axle would do, a larger than necessary sleeper, etc.). All of that is personal preference. Most of it goes to our personal comfort on the road. None of it makes any difference when comparing the freight eligibility of two CR units. Some of it means we can haul less freight than DR units, which places us at a competitive disadvantage.

>If FedEx purchased 51% to gain control of Panther, I would
>consider Panther a dead company at that point. Exposing 51%
>of their stock is a dangerous thing to do and only
>mismanagement will cause such a thing. You should know it
>would take only or less than 15% to gain control look at
>some of the history of takeovers and mergers. I would not
>buy a share of Panther stock until long after the IPO when
>it settles down and things become more public. Remember that
>this is a company that has no trucks, has no warehouse or
>real assets outside of their offices, computers and customer
>list. Yea it all looks good in reports but there is more to
>a company than the annual management reports, but you should
>know all that. I would not think that FedEx would buy
>Panther, but I would think either a large trucking company
>Schneider maybe or maybe another company like FedEx and UPS
>– DHL comes to mind. I think FedEx would become more
>aggressive in their marketing and capturing market share
>than to buy another company.

The reason for FedEx to by Panther (as I see it) is to keep the other companies you mention from doing so. Buying Panther would be a very easy way to eliminate a competitor and expand FedEx's customer base.

 

[ATeam]

A lot of
>white glove drivers and owners have come to Panther and have
>taken some of the customers that specifacally ask for them
>with them to Panther. They are not the only drivers out
>there that take pride in how they service the customers. We
>have bent over backwards for our customers and get rewarded
>for it all the time.

Bingo!

That is exactly the point I am making. There is a market out there, larger than any one carrier for specially-equipped trucks driven by drivers who provide value added services. And because they provide value to shippers - over and above the simple transport of freight - shippers are willing to pay a premium to acquire those services.

I'm not talking about White Glove being better than Panther's Elite Services. I'm talking about a one-truck owner-operator's ability to address a certain market and do very well in it. To use bernieh48's words, I'm talking about drivers who "...have bent over backwards for our customers and get rewarded for it all the time."

When the hard times come that TennesseeHawk talks about, what trucks will Panther and FedEx seek to keep and what ones will they purge from the fleet? They will quite naturally seek to retain their customer-oriented drivers and most fully-equipped trucks.

 

[davekc]

Your experiences are essentially the same as my teams have described that came from WG. They did average a higher milage rate, but encountered considerably more DH and sitting. At the end of the day, it is what you keep, not necessarily what you make. The other side of the coin is many are currently doing well and have been there for a long time. That usually doesn't happen by accident. That same thing can be said for several different companies.
As to Ateam being better than everyone, that is pretty much in his own mind. The reality of it is my drivers and others can do his job, but he couldn't do theirs. Why? They have been WG in the past and currently locate and book some of their own freight which he has no experience.
Equals? it depends on what you are looking at. Better than? not likely on his best day.
You do have to give a few points for his support of Fedex regardless of the realities.




Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[davekc]

The reason for FedEx to by Panther (as I see it) is to keep the other companies you mention from doing so. Buying Panther would be a very easy way to eliminate a competitor and expand FedEx's customer base
======================================
Anything is possible but the corporate giant in Memphis doesn't view Panther as their prime competitor. They could've jumped on the Conway sale if they had that interest.

As far as a slow down and what trucks a company will want to retain depends on what has the highest demand. The huge slowdown in 2000-2001 certainly wasn't moving reefer freight. the winner at that time was weight and capacity.
If you look at current load boards now, the likely movers in a slow down are flatbeds and dropdecks.








Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[guest]

Can't we All just get along, Not to step on anyone toes here. But Does it really matter who is the biggest or the best, we all have our own Company that we like to run for. Mine is FedEX, DaveKc is Panther, and Phil's is FedEx. We all have a choice, but that don't make any of us better than one another. DaveKc is a very nice person and just because he is leased on to Panther Doesn't mean I wouldn't talk to him. Dave anytime you are in Seville Call us up and we will come and get you and you can come over to the house for Dinner. Same for you Phil.

Drive safe

Dave Mayfield
FEDExCC/Roberts Express O/O Since 3/1/1995
C1847,C2045,D3397,D5047

 

[davekc]

We had a great time with you and Trish. We will take you up on your offer when we blow into Seville.
I want to check out your sleeper you rebuilt.
Same invite if you get to either FL or TN







Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[bernieh48]

I don't think any of us are really saying one company is better than the rest. We are all out here to do the same job. That is to provide quality service above and beyond to the customer.
I do believe however in my view that Phil was coming across as FedEx White Glove was better than every other company. Just my opinion though. I also have to say having both a Cunit reefer before and a D unit reefer with Fed EX I think Phil is shooting himself in the foot with only having a C unit. Personal opinion again. If I want a reefer and still have a straight truck then why not be able to haul the max amount of friehgt possible?

 

[davekc]

You are correct in your assumptions. Phil in earlier posts suggested that his "C" unit theory was based a past loads. I would think some of it was to get a large sleeper and stay within 40 feet.
Those are really two issues, as the first has little value. The information that one would seek is how many loads are called in, and for what size unit. You may have a 22 footer picking up two pallets for example. But, in most cases it is what size unit requested by the customer at the time the order is placed.
Without a doubt, weight and capacity will offer more opportunities.









Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator