early impression on conway FSC?

joebob1_30132 · Mar 13, 2006

well ..anyone have any numbers on conways new fsc yet... I believe in jan I paid 63% of my fuel. anyone have agood formula? I do want good info on this ..not feelings. is this on par ?? and if you go to conways corporate public web page ..the one where they disclose there public finances ..(they are a publicly traded company) They state in their open memo to future investors that The FCS is an intragal part of "their" profit. I would hazzard to guess their meaning.

x06col · Mar 13, 2006

Joebob: In February I paid 100% of my fuel. I believe you're getting over.

davekc · Mar 13, 2006

They state in their open memo to future investors that The FCS is an intragal part of "their" profit. I would hazzard to guess their meaning.
===================================================

If that is the exact language, then one could take it for its value.
If investors are saving money, then that means the company is achieving a benefit. If so, then it is on the backs of their owner operators through a reduction in FSC, and bidding freight cheaper in order to remain competitive.
Again, if that is the exact language, then no amount of spin is going to make that sound like a benefit to their owner operators.
If you are showing a drop in income (rate & FSC combined) while fuel is increasing, I would say your question is answered.

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mrgoodtude · Mar 14, 2006

Hey Joe feet, I can't give you real numbers but I will say this, It has been refreshing not to accept or reject a load based on FSC and I have noticed an aggresive push by Conway on NLM loads Via the internet. I am (was) a huge skeptic of the new policy for obvious reasons but I can say now with no reservations that Conway did this to be competitive in the market and I feel it was a good move. They have kept us rolling and did so to our benefit not theirs. Will it hurt later? maybe who knows no one can predict the future of automotive or at least it's impact on expedite but for now and in the last quarter I have to say Conway has stepped up to the plate and kept us busy during a slow period, Feb was just as productive as Dec was and I am confident that if you give them a good shake on in service and place yourself in decent zones they will make you money.
P.S I came from a big truck background and will have to admit their FSC is in line with the big trucks based on projected mpg .19 a mile this week in a 10 mpg truck (if I drive profitably).
Mike and Cyn

DocRushing · Mar 14, 2006

Did the quoted line (about the fuel surcharge) come from Conway Now (the expediting subsidiary)?
Or did it come from the parent company -- Conway -- the general-freight (mostly LTL) carrier with its large company fleet?
That makes a big difference.
If that line came from the viewpoint of Conway Now, the expediting subsidiary, it's very upsetting to the owner-operators concerned.
If that line came from the viewpoint of the parent company with its large company fleet, then it's very true, understandable, and appropriate.
Whenever we see or hear a statement, it's often helpful to consider the context in which that statement occurs.

davekc · Mar 14, 2006

Doc makes a excellent point. If it is the truckload division, that would be a totally different issue as it doesn't impact the expedite owner operators. I would agree, that some clarification is needed as to who exactly authored the memo.
Certainly a different meaning depending on what division it came from.

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Moot · Mar 14, 2006

Con-Way Now is a very small subsidiary of CNF. CNF is comprised of 3 LTL carriers, truckload division, Logistics, trailer manufacturer, air freight and a slug of other companies including Con-Way Now. If they are braging about f.s.c. as an intragal part of thier profits they could be trying to placate investors who are wary of investing in the transportation sector due to high fuel costs.

If this quote came from Con-Way Now then it's another matter.

I'm not defending the company. As a van owner I am curious as to what a D unit owner gets paid for an A or B load. I get .80/mi. and right now .09/mi. f.s.c. I can't believe you D guys are hauling van loads at .89/mi. are you? How do you think the difference is made up. If a customer requests a van for a 500# shipment and a D unit is the only thing available I don't think they are billed a D rate.

How about it Con-Way D units. What rate and f.s.c. do you get for a van load. Are vans subsidising your rates? Is the company eating the difference?

JoeBob, can you be more specific. Where exactly did you read about this.

LDB · Mar 14, 2006

Please post a link to exactly where you found this. I spent several minutes on the Con-Way Now website and couldn't find it. Thanks.

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joebob1_30132 · Mar 16, 2006

preciate the buz... and imput ,Im not one to shoot from the hip.. just lokin for a general consesus.. When i said That I didnt know their meaning of profit from the Fcs I ment it. Not trying to be provacative..Im not sure my calculations are right . Getting to the site as soon as I can. a friend looked it up when he went to work on his 401K. Transportation really hot right now. con-way have (i feel) been fair and up front. to my team.. Lets all make a lot of money out there

Moot · Apr 3, 2006

>Con-Way Now is a very small subsidiary of CNF. CNF is
>comprised of 3 LTL carriers, truckload division, Logistics,
>trailer manufacturer, air freight and a slug of other
>companies including Con-Way Now. If they are braging about
>f.s.c. as an intragal part of thier profits they could be
>trying to placate investors who are wary of investing in the
>transportation sector due to high fuel costs.
>
>If this quote came from Con-Way Now then it's another
>matter.
>
>I'm not defending the company. As a van owner I am curious
>as to what a D unit owner gets paid for an A or B load. I
>get .80/mi. and right now .09/mi. f.s.c. I can't believe
>you D guys are hauling van loads at .89/mi. are you? How do
>you think the difference is made up. If a customer requests
>a van for a 500# shipment and a D unit is the only thing
>available I don't think they are billed a D rate.
>
>How about it Con-Way D units. What rate and f.s.c. do you
>get for a van load. Are vans subsidising your rates? Is
>the company eating the difference?
>
>JoeBob, can you be more specific. Where exactly did you
>read about this.

Moot · Apr 3, 2006

Sorry, I didn' want to quote the whole post.

I'm still curious as to what Con-Way D units are paid per mile and f.s.c. when hauling a van load.

cheri1122 · Apr 3, 2006

First thing I did when I read JoeBob's original post, was to PM him, asking for the location of the information he cited - because it does make a big difference. It is my belief that every carrier is morally obligated to pass 100% of fuel surcharges on to the person paying for the fuel - if this program is a way to shift some to profit, instead, I'd like to know that.
Along with the rest of you, I'm still waiting for an answer. (That's not a dig against JoeBob - I understand that other things take priority, like actually working, & you can't do computer research while driving...)

davekc · Apr 3, 2006

The other option is to request a copy of the freight charges that the customer paid. By law, that must be provided to you upon request. That would likely answer most of your questions. A request of several should tell you where you stand. Additional help can be provided by calling OOIDA. I believe they have 30 days to respond but again, I would check OOIDA just to make sure on the time frame.
Also, if one thinks a class of vehicles is subsidizing another, this would clear any of that up.

A while back (several years) we busted a carrier not paying the correct percentage of a bill. They ponied up the difference when they found out I knew who ran the shipping department and had a copy of the frieght charges. It is amazing how the song suddenly changed.
It was portrayed originally as a clerical error until it was discovered that this was a regular ocurrance.

If you are playing with all your cards on the table, there is no reason they shouldn't, regardless of the carrier.

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jaminjim · Apr 4, 2006

I thought that law applied only if you were paid on a percentage.

Tennesseahawk · Apr 4, 2006

It does only apply to percentage. However, if the fsc is based on a percentage of the full tarrif, and not just on your rate, you could argue that part of your profit.

LDB · Apr 4, 2006

I asked them at MATS and that week the fsc was 16cpm to a D unit. I don't think it matters what size load. I believe it is set on a weekly basis and whatever it is for your size unit you get it on every load you carry. If they are going to pay 16cpm on 9,342 pounds for Chrysler who is only paying them maybe 6cpm then I'm pretty sure they are going to pay it on a 500 pound load as well. Perhaps Ms. Blaney will pop in again and confirm or correct.

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davekc · Apr 4, 2006

My understanding is the same as Hawks. It is the fuel surcharge component that you would be questioning, rather than the milage rate.

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cheri1122 · Apr 4, 2006

Leo: your impression is correct, according to the written explanation given to contractors for ConWay back in January. The fuel surcharge is derived from an unexplained "matrix", which formulates the fsc for that week, based upon the average price of diesel. This rate is of course higher for a D unit than a B, but is consistent for all loads during that week.
In January, the price I paid for fuel averaged $2.25, and the fsc was set at .09 cents per mile. In March, fuel averaged $2.40, and the fsc went up to .10 cents per mile. (These numbers apply to gasoline, for a B unit)
The jury is still out, but I'm seeing a definite drop in my income, (And I took my share of the low fsc loads, before this program began). For me, the biggest difference is that I can no longer accept more than mimimum deadhead - especially to relocate. If the deadhead is fairly high for a load, then I must negotiate for more money - and I don't enjoy that at all. If I enjoyed negotiating, I'd get my own authority, & negotiate my own rates, no?
Plus, every time I accept a load, I can't help but wonder if I should have tried to get more money - and that's something I like even less.
While I'm not ready to jump ship just yet, the picture is beginning to darken for me...

joebob1_30132 · Apr 5, 2006

Thanks for the replys ..It caught my cvuriosity when I was told this my friend sent me a print out of that page... It was talking about the situations in which there could be a drastic fluctuations in earnings.. one specific, among many, said that a big drop in the price of oil would have a huge effect on the profitablity of cnf since "customers now are acustomed to payin FSCS" and cnf does profit off of those. There were no break downs in what division or branch of the cnf family..could mean anything within the cnf co. excluding con-way now. One example would be that cnf buys fuel in bulk for its regional non o/os and gets a price break with fuel providers.. not passing the savings on to their customers. As I said before I did not know the meaning of their statment .It was meant for prospective investors.

davekc · Apr 5, 2006

I would be surprised that they would volunteer that type of information. That could be viewed in a very negative light whether a customer or a contractor.
If drivers are making less under this plan as stated, and company profits are up, I would really feel a need for a explanation.
Even more so with escalating fuel prices.

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