jeffman164
Seasoned Expediter
Never did the camper thing but I have been known to pull my jet skiis behing my cargo van from time to time . Got a few double takes - but mostly thumbs up from the shippers . Truth be told - never a big 3 run .
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- Thread starter cjmitch
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Reply to ATeam:
I think that Ben Franklin, Alexander Graham Bell, Steve Jobs, Nikolay Benardos, Louis Braille, Sergey Brin, Leonardo da Vinci, and Albert Einstein were all told "Your idea is a bad one, it'll never work, it's not possible, & you're crazy if you try", BUT I think we all know the outcome of these people thinking outside the box. I think the responses I'm getting are simple human nature. People fear change, things that are "different", & the unknown. I think spending less time saying "No, it can't be done", & more time saying "Why not get all of the details sorted out & give it a try" is why the aforementioned people were successful in not only revolutionizing their chosen vocation, but in revolutionizing the world. I am not by any means comparing myself to these geniuses. Not at all. I'm just a squirrel trying to get a nut in the most comfortable way that I that can think of. Lastly, I think that if you set your mind to it & don't quit you can accomplish anything. History has proven this countless times.
I think that Ben Franklin, Alexander Graham Bell, Steve Jobs, Nikolay Benardos, Louis Braille, Sergey Brin, Leonardo da Vinci, and Albert Einstein were all told "Your idea is a bad one, it'll never work, it's not possible, & you're crazy if you try", BUT I think we all know the outcome of these people thinking outside the box. I think the responses I'm getting are simple human nature. People fear change, things that are "different", & the unknown. I think spending less time saying "No, it can't be done", & more time saying "Why not get all of the details sorted out & give it a try" is why the aforementioned people were successful in not only revolutionizing their chosen vocation, but in revolutionizing the world. I am not by any means comparing myself to these geniuses. Not at all. I'm just a squirrel trying to get a nut in the most comfortable way that I that can think of. Lastly, I think that if you set your mind to it & don't quit you can accomplish anything. History has proven this countless times.
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Those people also had no government regulation..no liability lawyers waiting to sue their butts off..I myself can envision a slick van towing a matching box trailer to haul 3 skids....kinda like the amateur race car guys....BUT..you'll need to log and scale...
Con-Way Now tried that idea with company owned E-350's and trailers. It lasted less than 6 months.
All those inventors weren't trying to run a time-sensitive load and having to mess with a trailer.
I've towed a trailer before-- never in business-- so I know it's no small matter to hook and unhook the trailer at each end of a run. Turtle brought up the problem of where to drop the trailer-- admittedly something that hadn't occurred to me, which does add a wrinkle to the proceedings-- and I know from personal experience about the mechanical/electrical stuff. There's no getting away from the fact that it will take you, once you've found the spot to drop the trailer, at least fifteen to twenty minutes to drop the wiring harness, disconnect the safety chains, disconnect any weight-distributing hitch hardware, crank the winch to raise the tongue from the ball and probably have to remove the hitch from the receiver. I'm thinking maybe twenty minutes.
The other part, reconnecting the trailer, takes a little longer-- especially if you have to mess with weight-distribution hardware. Throw in having to check the lights when you re-connect, too. I don't know if it can be done in much less than half an hour, from the time you back the van and put the hitch-ball back into the receiver to road-ready.
If you have a heavier trailer, there's a good chance you have a weight-distributing hitch set-up. If that's the case you have to play with those spring-bars, chains and so on that help distribute the load so the tow vehicle doesn't squat too bad under the heavy tongue weight. The ones I've seen don't look quick to connect/disconnect, and you'll have to figure that time too.
Time doesn't matter when you're getting your cargo van-trailer set up for a week on vacation. Have fun, maybe post some photos. We'd really like to see the "big one that got away".
Time does matter--- a lot-- when dispatch calls you with a run. Example, in my case picking up at O'Hare South Cargo road and going to London, Ohio. Ready now, drive straight through and they want it before they close for the night. You have the time* plus a little to spare, but not enough to mess with that trailer. Two skids, 1,500 lbs. 360 miles.
*You have the time-- You have enough time to drive, make a couple of gas stops and necessary "human urgency" breaks and maybe get a cup of coffee or two provided you don't mess around much. There's not a lot of slack, though, the closing time is rather rigid.
Add-on: I like to do things comfortably too-- within the limits imposed by what we're doing. I've invested in a cot and an air mattress for that purpose. It takes maybe ten minutes to set up the cot and inflate the mattress, somewhat less to reverse the process (a 12-volt pump makes inflating/deflating the mattress really fast) and you don't have to mess with where to put it since, in its collapsed state it stows easily in a very small space
I've towed a trailer before-- never in business-- so I know it's no small matter to hook and unhook the trailer at each end of a run. Turtle brought up the problem of where to drop the trailer-- admittedly something that hadn't occurred to me, which does add a wrinkle to the proceedings-- and I know from personal experience about the mechanical/electrical stuff. There's no getting away from the fact that it will take you, once you've found the spot to drop the trailer, at least fifteen to twenty minutes to drop the wiring harness, disconnect the safety chains, disconnect any weight-distributing hitch hardware, crank the winch to raise the tongue from the ball and probably have to remove the hitch from the receiver. I'm thinking maybe twenty minutes.
The other part, reconnecting the trailer, takes a little longer-- especially if you have to mess with weight-distribution hardware. Throw in having to check the lights when you re-connect, too. I don't know if it can be done in much less than half an hour, from the time you back the van and put the hitch-ball back into the receiver to road-ready.
If you have a heavier trailer, there's a good chance you have a weight-distributing hitch set-up. If that's the case you have to play with those spring-bars, chains and so on that help distribute the load so the tow vehicle doesn't squat too bad under the heavy tongue weight. The ones I've seen don't look quick to connect/disconnect, and you'll have to figure that time too.
Time doesn't matter when you're getting your cargo van-trailer set up for a week on vacation. Have fun, maybe post some photos. We'd really like to see the "big one that got away".
Time does matter--- a lot-- when dispatch calls you with a run. Example, in my case picking up at O'Hare South Cargo road and going to London, Ohio. Ready now, drive straight through and they want it before they close for the night. You have the time* plus a little to spare, but not enough to mess with that trailer. Two skids, 1,500 lbs. 360 miles.
*You have the time-- You have enough time to drive, make a couple of gas stops and necessary "human urgency" breaks and maybe get a cup of coffee or two provided you don't mess around much. There's not a lot of slack, though, the closing time is rather rigid.
Add-on: I like to do things comfortably too-- within the limits imposed by what we're doing. I've invested in a cot and an air mattress for that purpose. It takes maybe ten minutes to set up the cot and inflate the mattress, somewhat less to reverse the process (a 12-volt pump makes inflating/deflating the mattress really fast) and you don't have to mess with where to put it since, in its collapsed state it stows easily in a very small space
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Alexander Graham Bell just tweeted that it's a dumb idea.
Special add-on. I've had occasion to look into the matter of adding a generator to my set-up. The question of where to put it immediately comes up. A trip to the RV dealer was somewhat less than successful in that regard, they suggested a platform mount connected to a standard rear-mounted receiver hitch. If you're thinking at all you see the problem this creates right away. It blocks your rear doors, necessitating the removal/replacement of the generator at every pickup/delivery. Now you have to try to handle this heavy thing and get it into and out of that receiver. Not fun.
I have seen it done on the front of a van. Same deal, generator mounted to a platform, on a receiver hitch. The only question is weight distribution and whether the front suspension and steering geometry will handle an extra hundred and fifty-to two hundred pounds mounted ahead of the front bumper. The last one I saw was mounted on a Ford E-350 Extended van, and I can see where having that weight on the front is an advantage on that van. You only have to take it off when maintenance makes it necessary, otherwise it can stay put. Problem: You might have to fabricate a receiver. I don't know if you can get one "off the shelf" for a front-mounted hitch like you can for rear-mounted hitches.
I have seen it done on the front of a van. Same deal, generator mounted to a platform, on a receiver hitch. The only question is weight distribution and whether the front suspension and steering geometry will handle an extra hundred and fifty-to two hundred pounds mounted ahead of the front bumper. The last one I saw was mounted on a Ford E-350 Extended van, and I can see where having that weight on the front is an advantage on that van. You only have to take it off when maintenance makes it necessary, otherwise it can stay put. Problem: You might have to fabricate a receiver. I don't know if you can get one "off the shelf" for a front-mounted hitch like you can for rear-mounted hitches.
So far I don't believe he has put his idea into practice. If and when he does, I hope he will report back. I think most of the advice given was meant to keep him from spending money on a camper setup that has a high probability of failure.
It sounds as if pkolle has a van, will buy a camper and then look for a carrier to lease this set-up to. To my way of thinking, that's backasswards. Did you and Diane spec and build your truck and then look for a carrier where such a truck would fit and be profitable?
If you can pull this off, then more power to you! Maybe a van pulling a camper will become common place and acceptable and your name could find its way in with Ben Franklin, Alexander Graham Bell, Steve Jobs, Nikolay Benardos, Louis Braille, Sergey Brin, Leonardo da Vinci, and Albert Einstein.
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The only way I can see this working at all is to set the van up as a camper, then connect a cargo trailer to it. That way you don't have the endless nonsense of disconnecting/re-connecting the trailer at each and every pickup/delivery. Even then, I can imagine trouble getting many carriers to go along with this. But, at least this set-up is possible.
I believe the reason Con-Way Now's experiment with trailers failed was because drivers didn't want to mess with hooking and unhooking a trailer. They took the easy route and loaded the trailer instead of loading the van first and then putting any extra freight in the trailer. Several thousand pounds of freight in a trailer being towed by an empty cargo van on slipper roads is a disaster in the making.
No problem...Guido has a front mount....on his Ford
Brisco
Expert Expediter
I say just ya'll just quit discussing the cons of pulling an RV Trailer behind a CV with him.............It's obvious he's already decided in his own mind that he knows a way to get the job done better than all these experienced veterans that are here trying to help him make the right choice.
I also say let's Help him in his quest to get set up with a CV-RV Combo unit. We all can search for the best combinations we think might work to lead him down the path he seeks to go down........
Then......after he fails.....and ends up with the whole rig set up repo'd and he is broke and bankrupt......we'll have a Tried and Failed Member that we could refer ALL future members to when they seek info on this exact same set up.................
I say just ya'll just quit discussing the cons of pulling an RV Trailer behind a CV with him.............It's obvious he's already decided in his own mind that he knows a way to get the job done better than all these experienced veterans that are here trying to help him make the right choice.
I also say let's Help him in his quest to get set up with a CV-RV Combo unit. We all can search for the best combinations we think might work to lead him down the path he seeks to go down........
Then......after he fails.....and ends up with the whole rig set up repo'd and he is broke and bankrupt......we'll have a Tried and Failed Member that we could refer ALL future members to when they seek info on this exact same set up.................
The great thing about the US and Canada....you can fail...get up and dust yourself off and learn and start all over....
You are correct about the human nature thing. You are also correct about the examples of success set by the ground-breaking pioneers you name. However, there is another part of the story that must also be noted and appreciated.
Franklin, Bell, Jobs, etc. had many more ideas than they brought successful fruition. Some of their ideas were terrible flops. They tried many things many times and sometimes hit the jack pot.
Not known as well by history but far more numerous are the millions of nameless people who thought they had a great idea, took inspiration from famous inventors, but got nowhere; perhaps because they did not have the wherewithall to bring their idea to fruition, but also perhaps because their idea was a loser from the start.
I am inclined to agree with those in this thread who say your cargo van/camper trailer idea has more going against it than for it, but I am not willing to dismiss it out of hand. I admire the persistence you show and I especially admire how you get advice from the status-quo experts of the day and then push back against that advice.
This admiration is easy for me to maintain. It is not my money you are putting at risk. Nor is it any skin off my nose if you succeed in a big way. I have the luxury of sitting back and enjoying the show as you, the underdog thinker, leans into it with persistence and faith.
I close with the suggestion that as you develop your idea, take full measure of the fact that not every new idea is a good one. Even the greats fell on their faces from time to time. I like it that you are trying. I will like it better if I know you are fully prepared to fail.
This is a great post. I admire a ground breaking idea as much as anyone. For me though, I reserve that admiration for ideas with quite a bit more upside potential than that of "what is a better way to do cargo van expediting?".
I suspected there could be problems. One of the big ones is that while a van can certainly tow a trailer, and some can tow up to 5,000 lbs, they aren't designed for it. They're designed to be a load-carrying vehicle in their own right.
I had the idea that if you are hell-bent on doing this, the only right way is to set up the van as a camper towing a cargo trailer. That helps to eliminate the constant disconnecting/reconnecting hassle that comes with trying to tow a camper trailer with a CV. The problem is that there is absolutely no way to load two skids into a CV without dropping the trailer. You have to open and use the rear doors, there's no escaping that. If you decide to use the van as a camper and load the freight into the cargo trailer, that ends that problem.
There are still a host of problems with the idea, but at least it ceases to be an impossibility with a camper van/cargo trailer set-up. I don't know if it would work well, it may still fail-- possibly spectacularly--- but the possibility of success does theoretically exist.
This will be my final comment on this thread. I'm certainly glad that the aforementioned inventors persisted in spite of the naysayers. I like having things like electricity, phone, tv, & computer. It takes courage & persistence to succeed in spite of overwhelming opposition. I may fail. Certainly I agree that the odds are against me, BUT I prefer to try & fail as opposed to saying "It cant be done" & quitting.
The problem with the idea of a cargo van & trailer is that one doesn't need to try it and then fail to know it won't work. You don't have to have experience with such a setup to know the inherent problems of the setup, the logistics of dealing with it, and to know that some of the biggest problems cannot be overcome. The other problem is, this isn't a new idea. It's been tried before. If it worked, you'd see it often, but you don't.
When I first started in expediting one of the very first things I did was to remove the passenger seat and in its place put a desk of my own construction, with shelves and places to mount Qualcomm, CB, office supplies and other things. I was right proud of my Turtle Desk. It was a brilliant idea of which I was very proud.
My first day in-service I pulled up to the front door of the Flying J in Oak Grove, KY and parked along side of another Ford E-350, a van leased on with Tri-State, as I prepared to go into the store to buy something to drink. As I stepped out of the van I looked to my left and saw, where a passenger seat used to be, a nearly identical Turtle Desk in the Tri-State van. My self-deluded brilliance was shattered in an instant, and I immediately realized that whatever ideas I may come up with, good or bad, has probably already been thought of by somebody out here.
I realized that rather than trying to reinvent the wheel it might be more efficient and less costly to learn from the mistakes and successes of others, and then craft my own ideas of building a better mousetrap based on the successful and not-so successful ideas of others.
That's a true story.
When I first started in expediting one of the very first things I did was to remove the passenger seat and in its place put a desk of my own construction, with shelves and places to mount Qualcomm, CB, office supplies and other things. I was right proud of my Turtle Desk. It was a brilliant idea of which I was very proud.
My first day in-service I pulled up to the front door of the Flying J in Oak Grove, KY and parked along side of another Ford E-350, a van leased on with Tri-State, as I prepared to go into the store to buy something to drink. As I stepped out of the van I looked to my left and saw, where a passenger seat used to be, a nearly identical Turtle Desk in the Tri-State van. My self-deluded brilliance was shattered in an instant, and I immediately realized that whatever ideas I may come up with, good or bad, has probably already been thought of by somebody out here.
I realized that rather than trying to reinvent the wheel it might be more efficient and less costly to learn from the mistakes and successes of others, and then craft my own ideas of building a better mousetrap based on the successful and not-so successful ideas of others.
That's a true story.
AMonger
Veteran Expediter
Here's another example of learning from the mistakes of others: Jarret from Shipping Wars uses the van/trailer combination. See how well it works for him?