Looks like he is at it again, trying to solve a federal issue at the state level.
Death by DeSantis
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Looks like he is at it again, trying to solve a federal issue at the state level.
I did not believe this report when I first saw it. But checking more, it's true. There is indeed a Florida Senate Bill 1718 that will do as the headline you posted says if it is passed into law; namely, "Criminalize any Contact With Undocumented People).
I found it initially unbelievable because I assume, based on my personal observations in our community, there are many thousands (perhaps hundreds of thousands) of undocumented immigrants living and working in Florida. These people rent homes and apartments, they work as roofers, construction contractors, landscaping laborers, gardeners, custodians, restaurant cooks and servers, factory workers, etc. While they send a great deal of the money they make to their families back home, they also spend their money in Florida on things like rent, transportation, groceries, entertainment, and other such things that everyone in Florida spends money on.
If you could somehow wave a magic wand to make all undocumented immigrants disappear from Florida, the economic impact would be profound. Businesses would lose thousands of workers and customers. The remaining Floridians would experience immediate shortages of the many services these people provide. There is no supply of "real Americans" to step in to do the work these immigrants are doing. I think that's why the authorities (including the DeSantis administration) have been turning a blind eye to this for years. And the more they do that, the more integrated this sector becomes into Florida's economy.
If this bill passes, it will score points for DeSantis among some conservatives who might vote for him in the presidential race he is expected to enter, but, as a practical matter, it will not be enforced, just as the existing immigration laws are not being enforced in Florida now. Instead, it will only undermine the integrity of all laws. Laws that are passed but not enforced only encourage people to believe in the law itself less and less.
The porous southern border we now have and the lax enforcement of the immigration laws we now have has always troubled me. A border should mean something, as should the law.
Finally, another possible impact of this law is concerning to me as a gym owner. And I'm sure all other business owners have the same concerns. Or they have no concerns because they know the law will not be enforced.
It seems if this law is passed, our gym could be in trouble if an undocumented immigrant was found to be a member here. It's actually quite amazing to see how international our local community is. We have numerous gym members from numerous countries. We have no way to know if they are documented or not. Did they enter the US legally under a visa? Do they have a green card? If yes, are their documents current? If no, how do we know that, and how would we know the documents they present are authentic? We check now the ID of every person who joins the gym, but when push comes to shove, how do we know the driver's license anyone presents is the real thing?
If this bill requires every barber, gym owner, grocery store operator, movie theater owner, Uber driver, priest, doctor, etc. to check the immigration status of every person seeking services, it will be widely ignored if it becomes law.
As a campaign device, this bill could hurt DeSantis more than it would help him. Yes, the conservatives who love him will cite it as a reason to vote for him in the Republican Primary. But this bill is scary outside that circle. Direct parallels can be drawn between it and measures the Nazis used to control the Jews. It's an example of authoritarianism in the extreme and a device that would erode everyone's freedom and turn people against each other.
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The legislation simply DOES NOT "criminalize any contact with undocumented people". This article is written on a left-wing blog/website that plays fast and loose with the facts on a good day. One only has to read the bill to see the blatant misrepresentation.
CS/SB 1718: Immigration
GENERAL BILL by Rules ; IngogliaImmigration; Prohibiting counties and municipalities, respectively, from providing funds to any person, entity, or organization to issue identification documents to an individual who does not provide proof of lawful presence in the United States; specifying that certain driver licenses and permits issued by other states exclusively to unauthorized immigrants are not valid in this state; requiring certain hospitals to collect patient immigration status data information on admission or registration forms; increasing the maximum fine that may be imposed for a first violation of specified provisions relating to employing, hiring, recruiting, or referring aliens for private or public employment; creating a certain rebuttable presumption that the public employer, contractor, or subcontractor has not violated specified provisions with respect to the hiring of an unauthorized alien, etc.
Senate Bill 1718 (2023) - The Florida Senate
www.flsenate.gov
Just follow the link and go to the web page that shows the text of the bill and scroll down to line 472: section 787.07 dealing with Human Smuggling. There you'll find the quotes used out of context to support the bogus article claiming to "criminalize any contact with undocumented people". To make matters worse, they try to compare this bill to the "penalties for “harboring Jews” in Nazi Germany"; this couldn't be more absurd, and quite frankly disgusting, if for no other reason than the Nazis were committing genocide against legal German citizens. Anyone who reads the bill can plainly see The Mary Sue is a liar. Apparently they never considered somebody might actually read the legislation.
I read the text as you requested. My comments are below.
Strictly speaking, you are correct when you say, The legislation simply DOES NOT "criminalize any contact with undocumented people".
On the other hand, it criminalizes a lot of what a lot of Floridians now do. See below.
444 ... If the person or entity determines or finds that a
445 private employer has violated this section, the person or entity
446 must notify the Department of Economic Opportunity.
Neighbors turn a blind eye to their neighbors when they know an undocumented immigrant is mowing their neighbor's lawn (and likely their own lawn too). If I know that about my neighbor, I'm a criminal if I don't turn them in to the Department?
192 (1) If a driver license is of a class of licenses issued by
193 another state exclusively to undocumented immigrants who are
194 unable to prove lawful presence in the United States when the
195 licenses are issued, the driver license, or other permit
196 purporting to authorize the holder to operate a motor vehicle on
197 public roadways, is invalid in this state and does not authorize
198 the holder to operate a motor vehicle in this state. Such
199 classes of licenses include licenses that are issued exclusively
200 to undocumented immigrants or licenses that are substantially
201 the same as licenses issued to citizens, residents, or those
202 lawfully present in the United States but have markings
203 establishing that the license holder did not exercise the option
204 of providing proof of lawful presence.
I read someone saying one state cannot undo the actions of another but I think FL is within its rights here. Drinking ages vary among states. Marriage license requirements also vary. Driver's license requirements may vary too, methinks. But it may not be that simple. Will CA retaliate by making all FL driver's licenses illegal in CA? What are the federal laws about this, if any? This may be more murky than it first appears.
210 (3) The department, to facilitate the enforcement of this
211 section and to aid in providing notice to the public and
212 visitors of invalid licenses, shall maintain on its website a
213 list of out-of-state classes of driver licenses that are invalid
214 in this state.
This is related to the above. Once licensed to drive a commercial vehicle in all states, I've never heard of a state that published a list like the one described above. Is this commonly done? Is this done anywhere?
Regarding the employment and verification rules that apply to employers, new rules will be ignored, just as the old rules are ignored now. In Florida, authorities (like the DeSantis administration) turn a blind eye to the widespread practice of employers hiring undocumented immigrants. These immigrants do not complete employment paperwork. They work for cash under the table.
If this bill becomes law, DeSantis could very likely target a business or two to single out as enforcement examples. That gets him the headline he wants without running afoul of the many businesses that employ undocumented immigrants.
542 (1) Except as provided in subsections (3) and (4), a person
543 who knowingly and willfully commits any of the following
544 offenses commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as
545 provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084:
546 (a) Transports into or within this state an individual whom
547
548
549 not been inspected by the Federal Government since his or her
550 unlawful entry from another country.
So, if I know someone is an undocumented immigrant who so entered the US, and I give them a ride to church, or if that person is having a medical emergency and I give them a ride to the ER, or if that person is a child and a classmate of one of my children and I give them a ride to and from school, or I give my undocumented-immigrant-babysitter or house cleaner a ride, I'm guilty of a felony? If a public transportation bus driver knows some of their passengers are undocumented or has reason to believe it, is the driver guilty of a felony? If so, DeSantis turns a whole lot of Floridians into criminals when he signs this bill.
584 (6) A person who is arrested for a violation of this
585 section must be held in custody until brought before the court
586 for admittance to pretrial release in accordance with chapter
587 903.
Interesting provision. If arrested under this Section, you'll sit in jail for a while, whether or not the arrest is justified; and perhaps for something as simple and compassionate as giving someone in need a ride to the hospital, school or church.
There IS a supply of U.S citizens to fill those jobs. And they need to be the ones to fill those jobs. Many though are too incentivized not to do those jobs.
What incentives are you talking about? In what way are the workers I mentioned above (restaurant workers, home health care, lawn care, factory laborers, etc.) incentivized to not do those jobs?
Having a glut of illegal aliens to do those jobs drives down wages in them. U.S citizens will do them if the wages are high enough. They may not work them as a career, but they would do them as a first job out of school, or during school, or use those jobs as a temporary situation until a job that they may have trained for in school has opened up.
That’s what happened to me when I was younger.
My current job,( the last 8 years) there are people that have been at it for 30 to 40 years. It’s mostly because the wages were high enough to make it worth staying for a long time.
danthewolf00
Veteran Expediter
McDonald's is not a career choice unless you make it to management.
I worked McDonalds during high school and a little after. They also had senior age people work the day shift. People worked there for a variety of reasons that weren’t career choices.
That section refers to Private Employers, and one has to start on line 379 to understand the context. Here is the text immediately preceding (emphasis mine):
440 2. A person or entity that makes a request under this
441 paragraph must rely upon the Federal Government to verify a
442 person’s employment eligibility and may not independently make a
443 final determination as to whether a person is an unauthorized
444 alien. If the person or entity determines or finds that a
445 private employer has violated this section, the person or entity
446 must notify the Department of Economic Opportunity.
So an individual can't simply rat out one's neighbor or a business for employing illegal aliens. There's a process involved.
Of course not. Nobody cares about insignificant situations like yard workers. However, if there's a business that is harboring and providing sanctuary for illegals, then yes - they should be reported. FL is a non-sanctuary state, and it's about time these states draw a line against those who provide succor for illegal aliens.
Good question. Obviously it's not commonly done with CDLs, but since these are state permits they various states could likely refuse licenses from states that are issued by other states that give them to illegal aliens. Another related example might be handgun carry permits. Many states such as CA and NY do not recognize the permits of other states. However, holding a driver's license opens doors to many opportunities and benefits to which illegal aliens shouldn't have access.
This has already happened in quite a few states, such as Arkansas raiding the Tyson chicken processing plant several years ago. It needs to happen more often.
This section doesn't apply to people giving rides to church or the hospital - it appears in the Human Smuggling section starting on line 541:
541 787.07 Human smuggling.—
542 (1) Except as provided in subsections (3) and (4), a person
543 who knowingly and willfully commits any of the following
544 offenses commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as
545 provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084:
If all of the illegals in Florida disappeared overnight, our economy would collapse. Would not be pretty.
A Genuine Surprise
The recent decline for DeSantis in the polls is a genuine surprise to me. While I'm rooting for Trump to win the Republican nomination, I thought DeSantis would be above Trump in the polls at this point or at least closer than he is now. DeSantis has been more active doing presidential candidate things (visits to Iowa, fundraising meetings, etc.), not less active.
I don't know why DeSantis is fading in the polls. Any ideas?
One example:
"The Morning Consult survey shows the former president has 54% support among likely primary voters and DeSantis has 26%, tying his lowest score since the poll began in December." (Source)
www.theguardian.com
The recent decline for DeSantis in the polls is a genuine surprise to me. While I'm rooting for Trump to win the Republican nomination, I thought DeSantis would be above Trump in the polls at this point or at least closer than he is now. DeSantis has been more active doing presidential candidate things (visits to Iowa, fundraising meetings, etc.), not less active.
I don't know why DeSantis is fading in the polls. Any ideas?
One example:
"The Morning Consult survey shows the former president has 54% support among likely primary voters and DeSantis has 26%, tying his lowest score since the poll began in December." (Source)
DeSantis hits Republican poll low as Trump tightens grip on primary
Florida governor repeats criticism of Trump in Fox Nation interview as he attempts delicate balancing act
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Trump is a household name, even among people who don't follow politics. His name has been in the news almost daily since he left office in 2020, thanks to a vindictive Democrat party. He's also been getting a lot of press lately that's likely generated a sympathy factor among people that would otherwise be ambivalent.A Genuine Surprise
The recent decline for DeSantis in the polls is a genuine surprise to me. While I'm rooting for Trump to win the Republican nomination, I thought DeSantis would be above Trump in the polls at this point or at least closer than he is now. DeSantis has been more active doing presidential candidate things (visits to Iowa, fundraising meetings, etc.), not less active.
I don't know why DeSantis is fading in the polls. Any ideas?
One example:
"The Morning Consult survey shows the former president has 54% support among likely primary voters and DeSantis has 26%, tying his lowest score since the poll began in December." (Source)
DeSantis hits Republican poll low as Trump tightens grip on primary
Florida governor repeats criticism of Trump in Fox Nation interview as he attempts delicate balancing act
DeSantis hasn't even thrown his hat in the ring, and is relatively unknown outside of FL. For example, I've got a couple of friends who follow politics fairly closely, and they recently admitted they had no clue what happened with DeSantis and Disney recently, or what his positions are on the transgender movement. They also never heard of Vivek Ramaswamy. It's too early for polls to have any significance.
Except for the sympathy factor you mention, all of the factors you list were factors when DeSantis was higher in the polls. So maybe that's it; the sympathy factor. If so, it's in Trump's best interest to get charged with multiple crimes in multiple jurisdictions. As crazy as that sounds, it seems likely Republican primary voters prefer legally-encumbered candidates to those with a clean record.
danthewolf00
Veteran Expediter
Trump gets more air time from Democrats than Republicans.......that is funny but true.
Which poll is this?
Having thought more about this, I offer the following THEORY. It's not something I believe. It's one possible explanation among many. I offer it for the purposes of conversation.
DeSantis is fading in the polls because Trump's vicious attacks of DeSantis have been effective, and DeSantis's retorts have been weak and ineffective.DeSantis's poll drop began at about the same time Trump started savaging him. The Democrats did not label DeSantis a "groomer." Trump did, and it's working.
DeSantis has not responded in kind. Like many Republicans, he lives in mortal fear of the Trump base, and he maintains the fantasy that Trump followers will magically shift to DeSantis when Trump collapses from old age or under his ever-increasing baggage. Accordingly, so as to not alienate the Trump base, DeSantis and other Republicans give Trump far more deference than he deserves. Essentially, they smile and bend over every time Trump comes after them.
The mistake they make is failing to realize the cult following Trump maintains. His base is not a political following that will easily shift alliances. While there are a lot of Republicans who love Trump and say they are concerned that Trump's baggage makes him a weaker candidate in the general election, they still love him and they'll still vote for him in the Republican primary, thereby assuring that Trump will be the nominee. They say they'll vote for DeSantis if DeSantis is the nominee, but their militant loyalty to Trump pretty much assures Trump will be the nominee.
DeSantis and other Republican candidate wannabees have no choice but to give back to Trump the same savaging Trump gives them. But even that won't work, because Trump's base is more cult-like than party like. I don't have that survey at hand but I remember seeing one that said the majority of Republicans are Trump-loyal first and Republican-loyal second.
Even if Trump is jailed before election day and somehow forced off the ballot, many of these Republicans will write him in, if they vote at all; thereby guaranteeing the White House will remain in Democratic hands, and possibly flipping the House back to Democratic control.
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Reasons for Trump surge and DeSantis drop:
Trump’s perceived persecution from the partisan “investigations.”
DeSantis perceived weak responses about it.
His flip flop on his response about Ukraine being a border dispute.
(MAGA isn’t for sending billions to Ukraine and prolonging the conflict especially while domestically inflation is ravaging and the banks are teetering.)
Trump’s perceived persecution from the partisan “investigations.”
DeSantis perceived weak responses about it.
His flip flop on his response about Ukraine being a border dispute.
(MAGA isn’t for sending billions to Ukraine and prolonging the conflict especially while domestically inflation is ravaging and the banks are teetering.)