Death by DeSantis

[muttly]

Agreed. So the problem is not that masks are ineffective. The problem is that improperly worn masks are ineffective. That's no small problem to fix. Kinda like driver's training. The problem is not that cars are unsafe. The problem is people operate them in a way that makes them unsafe.

People who say masks don't work are correct, not because the masks themselves don't work, but because people don't wear them right, thereby rendering them ineffective.

We have an AED in our gm. If someone went down with a heart attack but no one tried to use the AED to try to save him or her, do you conclude that AED's do not work and should not be required in gyms for that reason? Or to you take the more intelligent and nuanced view that the problem is with the people, not the device and if you want the problem fixed, you have to deal with the shoe that fits?

No they don't work regardless, unless wearing a properly tight fitting n95 mask.( Supposed to change after 4 hours too) I haven't seen anyone try to wear that continuesly without adjusting it as well. Probably because it's uncomfortable to wear, hot, glasses fog up, sensation of not enough air, and people can't wear for any extended period of time.The other masks are a waste of time and effort( and like Fauci once said) do very little to stop the virus. Many prefer the cheap masks because they're easier to wear and breathe but the payoff is they don't protect squat. So people wear them because they may have to for work and it isn't helping the situation, constantly pulling them down and wearing them half on.

 

[ATeam]

Please list anything you think he should have done differently.

1. Governor DeSantis should not have closed all Florida gyms on March 20, 2020, and other businesses before and after that. On that date, there were 174 new cases of COVID-19 reported in Florida (compared with over 7,000 yesterday). Fearing the unknown, Gov. DeSantis panicked and shut the state down, driving countless gyms and other businesses out of business, saddling the state with massive unemployment expenses, causing millions of people to lose their jobs, many of them permanently, and disrupting virtually every Floridian live in numerous ways.

2. Governor DeSantis should not have signed the bill that makes it illegal for businesses to inquire about a customer's vaccination status. If a private business wants to make its services conditional on what it considers a customer safety issue, the business should remain free to do that. The slogan "Free State of Florida" is a myth. DeSantis has used covid fear to consolidate power at the state level like it has never been consolidated before.

3. Governor DeSantis should not have prohibited state and local governments from setting their own covid rules. The government that governs best is the one that is closest to the people. If a local city council or county commission wants to set a covid rule and thereby render itself accountable to the people who voted for them, let it be so.

4. Same issue with mask mandates and school districts. Governor DeSantis should not interfere with a school district's ability to gauge it's local risks and public sentiment and set rules accordingly. Again, he is consolidating power at the state level for no good reason, other than it may serve him personally to do so.

5. Governor DeSantis should have more aggressively promoted the vaccines. While he is on record telling people to get them, his energy to that end has been tepid compared to many governors.

6. Governor DeSantis should not be framing some of the COVID-19 aspects as a personal freedom issue while ignoring the other side of the coin which is the greater good and public health.

7. Governor DeSantis should not have taken proactive steps to hide or obscure COVID-19 data. Whatever the numbers are, they should be openly and reliable open to the public.

8. Governor DeSantis should have appointed a state surgeon general who has more credibility and is more widely respected than the questionable doctor he recently placed in that position.

 

[Pilgrim]

You say Florida is one of the top three most visited states for tourists. What are the other two? Might the three states be compared to see what impact, if any, inbound tourism has on all three?

Maybe tourism has nothing to do with it. Instead, maybe it's the number of senior citizens.

Top Five States for Senior Citizens:
1. CA
2. FL
3. TX
4. NY
5. PA

Top Five States for Covid Deaths
1. CA
2. TX
3. NY
4. FL
5. PA

Population over 65 by state

Statistics on which states have the oldest populations, including the percentage of population over 65, total number of seniors, median age and more.

www.consumeraffairs.com

Total number of COVID deaths in the U.S. by state 2023 | Statista

As of March 2023, the state with the most COVID deaths had over 101,000 deaths.

www.statista.com

 

[ATeam]

No they don't work regardless, unless wearing a properly tight fitting n95 mask.( Supposed to change after 4 hours too) I haven't seen anyone try to wear that continuesly without adjusting it as well. Probably because it's uncomfortable to wear, hot, glasses fog up, sensation of not enough air, and people can't wear for any extended period of time.The other masks are a waste of time and effort( and like Fauci once said) do very little to stop the virus. Many prefer the cheap masks because they're easier to wear and breathe but the payoff is they don't protect squat. So people wear them because they may have to for work and it isn't helping the situation, constantly pulling them down and wearing them half on.

You are making my point. A proper mask (N-95) will work if properly fitted and worn. On that we do not disagree.

Also, the mere act of adjusting such a mask does not negate it's use. People remove them to eat and drink. They likely remove them when they are safely distanced from others. I know I have touched and adjusted my masks to wipe my mouth when I feel the urge to do so, or to shift it slightly to keep my glasses from fogging. But in such cases, people are wearing their masks nearly all the time. If you have a proper mask properly on 95 percent of the time, or even 80%, the virus's chances of spreading are reduced by that amount.

Just because a solution is not perfect 100% of the time, it does not follow that it should be 100% rejected.

That said, mask wearing the the general public is a joke for the reasons you cite. Wrong masks, improperly worn = little benefit.

 

[ATeam]

Maybe tourism has nothing to do with it. Instead, maybe it's the number of senior citizens.

Top Five States for Senior Citizens:
1. CA
2. FL
3. TX
4. NY
5. PA

Top Five States for Covid Deaths
1. CA
2. TX
3. NY
4. FL
5. PA

Population over 65 by state

Statistics on which states have the oldest populations, including the percentage of population over 65, total number of seniors, median age and more.

www.consumeraffairs.com

Total number of COVID deaths in the U.S. by state 2023 | Statista

As of March 2023, the state with the most COVID deaths had over 101,000 deaths.

www.statista.com

Are you referring to absolute numbers, like Florida having over 50,000 deaths? or are you referring to the death rate per 100,000 residents?

 

[muttly]

Whatever you have heard doctors say, I can find doctors who say the exact opposite or nearly the exact opposite. If you are going to base any claim on what you heard doctors say, you thereby grant me the same ability, and if we cite what we heard doctors say to support our conflicting views, it's a stalemate.

Just today, I read a story about a doctor whose medical license was recently renewed, and through reports, I heard that doctor say the vaccines magnetize human beings, such that you can place a key or spoon on their forehead and it will stick due to magnetic force. I have been vaccinated and no key or spoon will stick to my forehead. But I heard a doctor say they would. I heard a doctor say this, so it must be true, right?

My last comment in the post was: I hope it's not true. I actually hope he is wrong . But I listen to different points of view regarding what doctors say. It's good to keep an open mind and examine what is happening with regards to the vaccines and infections and so forth. The doctor I referenced for discussion helped develope the nRNA vaccine. So there is that. I wouldn't just blindly believe as gospel whatever the official doctors in charge of the Pandemic have to say. A few months ago they told us that we can't get the virus or spread it if we are vaccinated. So apparently they were wrong when they said it. They also believed we would have longer immunity. Now they're hemming and hawing about whether to get a booster. Note to self. They may not have all the answers even when they act like they do.
But your doctor example seems like a ridiculous claim. I'm not so sure Dr.Malone's inquiries are in that category. He's just looking at the data.

 

[Pilgrim]

Are you referring to absolute numbers, like Florida having over 50,000 deaths? or are you referring to the death rate per 100,000 residents?

Absolute numbers

 

[muttly]

You are making my point. A proper mask (N-95) will work if properly fitted and worn. On that we do not disagree.

Also, the mere act of adjusting such a mask does not negate it's use. People remove them to eat and drink. They likely remove them when they are safely distanced from others. I know I have touched and adjusted my masks to wipe my mouth when I feel the urge to do so, or to shift it slightly to keep my glasses from fogging. But in such cases, people are wearing their masks nearly all the time. If you have a proper mask properly on 95 percent of the time, or even 80%, the virus's chances of spreading are reduced by that amount.

Just because a solution is not perfect 100% of the time, it does not follow that it should be 100% rejected.

That said, mask wearing the the general public is a joke for the reasons you cite. Wrong masks, improperly worn = little benefit

Unless n95 mask, that should be changed after 4 hours. ( Doctors nurses wear them but usually surgeries aren't that long in general so they don't wear for 4 hours)
But my observations are at work setting with some exertion. People can't wear the more breathable masks without messing with them constantly, unlikely to see mass scale of people wearing the harder to wear n95 masks.
Also, Fauci said other masks might prevent A Droplet Or Two.

 

[ATeam]

Maybe tourism has nothing to do with it. Instead, maybe it's the number of senior citizens.

Maybe, or maybe not. Florida is said to have a large senior citizen population but how large? How much different from other states?

Per this source, which ranks states by median age, Maine is the oldest state in the nation, and Florida is ranked sixth.

What percentage of seniors does FL and other states have of their total citizens. I do not know. Out of time now so I can't dig this up at the moment. But until we know the actual senior citizen count, we cannot say one way or another if Florida's exceptionally high COVID-19 numbers are due to the number of seniors in the state.

I it is also worth noting that the RECENT COVID-19 death rate has plummeted in many states, including FL. We must be careful about noting the time periods we are talking about when citing death rates. The data pre-vaccine is vastly different from post-vaccine data. Because they were at greater risk, seniors were quicker to get vaccinated than other age groups. That will skew the data in a certain direction. Also note that the people dying today of COVID-19 are mostly (overwhelmingly) unvaccinated people. A careful analysis would require us to distinguish the vaccination status of the age groups we are examining.

 

[ATeam]

Absolute numbers

Absolute numbers is a meaningless comparison. California's population is about 40 million. Florida's population is about 20 million. Oregon's population is about 4 million. Presumably, California has many more car accidents than the other two states. Does that mean it is less safe to drive in CA than the other two states, or that CA drivers are that much worse than drivers in other states?

Of course it doesn't. The only way to meaningfully compare driver safety and accident states is to level the playing field with a miles-driven adjustment, accidents-per-100,000 drivers, or other such equalizer.

It means nothing to say DeSantis is doing a good job or bad job managing covid because Florida has more seniors living in the state.

 

[Pilgrim]

Absolute numbers is a meaningless comparison. California's population is about 40 million. Florida's population is about 20 million. Oregon's population is about 4 million. Presumably, California has many more car accidents than the other two states. Does that mean it is less safe to drive in CA than the other two states, or that CA drivers are that much worse than drivers in other states?

Of course it doesn't. The only way to meaningfully compare driver safety and accident states is to level the playing field with a miles-driven adjustment, accidents-per-100,000 drivers, or other such equalizer.

It means nothing to say DeSantis is doing a good job or bad job managing covid because Florida has more seniors living in the state.

Wrong.
The absolute numbers indicate the direct correlation between the number of seniors and the number of covid deaths. Is it only a coincidence that the states with the highest number of seniors have the highest number of covid deaths? Probably not.

 

[RLENT]

Please refer to the first four words of the post.

He did ... literally in the first sentence he wrote in reply ...

 

[ATeam]

Wrong.
The absolute numbers indicate the direct correlation between the number of seniors and the number of covid deaths. Is it only a coincidence that the states with the highest number of seniors have the highest number of covid deaths? Probably not.

First, not wrong. The only meaningful way to compare a governor's effectiveness in managing the covid issues is to do so on a per 100,000 population basis.

Second, how do you know the states with the highest number of seniors have the highest number of covid deaths? I've never seen data showing that. I have not not seen it either because I have not looked. But you are the one making the claim. Do you have data you are relying on to make this claim or are you simply making it up?

You gave up your tourism claim with little resistance when I asked you to substantiate it with data. So far, you have provided no data to support your seniors claims. Are you making those up too?

 

[ATeam]

As more people get vaccinated and/or develop natural immunity it stands to reason that we'll see less mask usage, and for good reason. After all, aren't our doctors assuring us that the vaccines and natural immunities work?

Sadly, no. I'm not sure what you mean by "our doctors." I'll say "all" doctors are not assuring us that vaccines work. There are some doctors saying vaccines cause covid. They are wrong, but they're saying it just the same.

We've been seeing less mask use for some time. Today, I was at an outdoor FL community festival. Maybe one person in 1,000 was wearing a mask there. Recently, I was at a Wisconsin wedding. Indoor event, 300 people there, one mask seen. That's not because everyone is immunized or has natural immunity. A significant percentage of the population remains without those protections. Everyone who has stopped wearing masks has done so not because it correlates with vaccine or natural immunity. They have stopped wearing masks because they have stopped wearing masks. The reasons why vary with each person. If the reasons correlated with immunity, you'd see a lot more unimmunized people wearing masks.

 

[ATeam]

Please refer to the first four words of the post.

Noted. Sorry to read more into it than what was there.

 

[ATeam]

The Biden team dropped the ball on that. Monoclonal has been around longer than the vaccine. Trump used it about a year ago. There should be ample supplies for everyone already. It should have been already ramped up months ago in sufficient enough numbers. The rest of the country including Ohio should already be well stocked so that the Florida governor shouldn’t have to buy from the UK to offset the amount being rationed and taken away.

Trump received monoclonal antibody treatment in October, 2020 and held office for an additional 14 2/3 months. Trump had plenty of time to ramp up production. Any idea why that did not happen?

 

[muttly]

First, not wrong. The only meaningful way to compare a governor's effectiveness in managing the covid issues is to do so on a per 100,000 population basis.

Second, how do you know the states with the highest number of seniors have the highest number of covid deaths? I've never seen data showing that. I have not not seen it either because I have not looked. But you are the one making the claim. Do you have data you are relying on to make this claim or are you simply making it up?

You gave up your tourism claim with little resistance when I asked you to substantiate it with data. So far, you have provided no data to support your seniors claims. Are you making those up too? Florida currently ranks 10th after their surge. Seniors are most vulnerable with this virus. I remember early on when Italy was getting decimated by deaths that some said the reason was that they have a older population there. Same issues with the states with many older folks. DeSantis has done a great job protecting them and when the vaccine came, got them vaccinated.

 

[muttly]

Trump received monoclonal antibody treatment in October, 2020 and held office for an additional 14 2/3 months. Trump had plenty of time to ramp up production. Any idea why that did not happen?

Three months,

 

[muttly]

First, not wrong. The only meaningful way to compare a governor's effectiveness in managing the covid issues is to do so on a per 100,000 population basis.

Second, how do you know the states with the highest number of seniors have the highest number of covid deaths? I've never seen data showing that. I have not not seen it either because I have not looked. But you are the one making the claim. Do you have data you are relying on to make this claim or are you simply making it up?

You gave up your tourism claim with little resistance when I asked you to substantiate it with data. So far, you have provided no data to support your seniors claims. Are you making those up too?

When Italy got decimated early on some said it was because they have an older population there. States with many older folks here present the same unique challenges.

 

[ATeam]

Three months,

Oops! You are correct. 3 months, not 14+. My error.

So my question then flips to Biden. There seems to have been plenty of time for Biden to ramp up production of monoclonal antibody treatments. Any idea (beyond groundless speculation, partisan rhetoric, or baseless accusations) why that did not happen?