Cost analysis for expediting

[RichM]

Larry when is the new baby due and how is your breadwinner feeling?

 

[cheri1122]

I've been called "bimbo" and didn't mind, lol, because I knew it was affectionate - the intent is what matters. Like reading or singing to babies: the words don't matter - it's all in the tone of voice. Which unfortunately, doesn't come through in type.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

She's scheduled for a Dec 13 c-section. He might not want to wait tho... she's been having contractions lately.


Cheri... I told Jackie about your inquiry and she laughed. I know what you mean tho... too many ppl take names too seriously. I long for the days before the pc crowd.

"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know." - Kansas

 

[highway star]

Back when I was a golfer, we would refer to the girl driving the beverage cart as the "beer wench". 95% of them knew we meant this in an affectionate way. The others did'nt get a tip.

 

[LDB]

I've got 2 teams running my trucks. One has been with me over a year, one less than a year. I know things can change however my newer team asked me my plans. I told them I expect to do this for another decade. They told me they want to be in my truck until I quit. My older team is doing well and satisfied and tells me regularly they appreciate their opportunity and are glad they made this move. I won't reveal their numbers because it's not my place to. I will say they are making a comfortable and for them satisfactory income.

I'm not saying that to say I'm great. I'm saying it to point out that there are some drivers running for some owners who are doing well enough without owning the truck and having all the extra expenses and responsibilities of being an owner.

It is possible to drive for an owner and make a comfortable living. It won't equal what you can make as the owner. It won't have all the problems and responsibilities you'll have as the owner. For some, not having those is worth the tradeoff.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[Broompilot]

I know this sounds dissagreeing, Dave, A-Team. But no one has answered my earlier question. Show me one or better yet a couple of Successfull drivers for an Owner Operator, Leo, and Paul.

Prior to entering this business and looking at O/O no one wanted to give me a chance in a DECENT truck to start out in. I was not gona Team after what I had read on here. Living like a couple of pigs in a dump of a truck is not the standard of living I care to subject myself in. Call me spoiled, I do not care I want SUCCESS.

Now that I have a couple of years of expierence I understand why an owner would not hand the keys over with what I have seen as drivers out there I would not give them the keys to my Tonka Dump let alone an expensive truck. I have shared the road of Ownership with a driver, no thanks on that end either again, a failure no, a success I did not feel that way.

I still would like to know someone making a good living by that 60K range driving someone elses truck, year after year and now that in my eyes is a successfull relationship, and driver...

I do not care to start a Newbee off in a direction that has a larger % of failure than success. With that said Paul you asked "than how would I reccommended someone get into this business" Simple, make it a goal, work two three jobs save up enough capitol to get your own truck cause drivn for somelses truck aint gona get you to point A from B. Study this business and know it. If a person stays on here long enough there is enough of us here to guide that person and there success down a path to more than ensure their success. Agree Paul, Leo. And not everyone starts out with a ton of capitol, some have are gona have to follow my adice in generating the funds to make it....

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Are those husband/wife or bf/gf teams, Leo? If so, I think we already established they can be successful as both incomes are basically one.

Let me ask what Broom is, but in a different way. Anyone driving someone else's truck, who ISN'T combining their pay, who's making a house payment, and bills and still able to save up for their own truck?

"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know." - Kansas

 

[Broompilot]

And also Leo, your truck is being purcahsed by them am I correct? Different observation from what I have been trying to say NEWBEES, and no one is gona give a NEWBEE the opporuntiy to purcahse a ONE YEAR OLD TRUCK off the bat correct me if I am wrong.

This set up is not the NORM, and your drivers were not begginers.

 

[LDB]

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[ATeam]

Paul, not making a living wage is your solution?

This is a business and business opportunity, its not a job. You know one will NEVER be able to save enough $ sharing 40% of the revenue of this business. There are just not enough steady miles in this business. Sharing a very large % of the profits is enough to back up my response.

Please tell me anyone who has become financially well off running in someone elses truck?

Phil and Diane Madsen (that's us) became financially well off running someone else's truck.

We drove fleet owner trucks for three years before buying a truck of our own. With the exception of a few slow periods that all expediters have from time to time, and two months when we had no fleet owner truck to drive at all, we were as busy as we wanted to be.

If you are managing your money well in your personal life, running a fleet owner's truck is a FANTASTIC way to improve your financial circumstances. With only a tiny amount of startup money of your own, you can create a relationship with a fleet owner. The capital is provided by the fleet owner. The labor is provided by you. The carrier provides the freight. And if all parties keep up their end, money can be made by all.

I can't think of another place where access to money-making equipment (a truck), is provided with so few strings and with the freedom to turn it back in without getting hurt. That's what I mean by a FANTASTIC opportunity; virtually no strings, tiny up-front startup costs, and easy access to a money-making asset, and a ready-made customer base.

 

[arkjarhead]

I call my wife nugget t-hawk and cheri. Back on topic.
When I was driving for a fleet owner I ran as hard as the carrier and hos would let me and I still didn't make peanuts. Of course I wasn't teaming.

 

[nightcreacher]

broompilot is my friend,he and i dont agree on a lot of things,and this is one of them.although i am a tractor driver,and our situation in expedite is a little different,i believe the best way to get started in the expedite business is with a good owner.learn with his money,keep a log on what you do,good or bad,and you can make your decissions from there.This can be a very high wage career move,or it could be the worst thing you ever did in your life.Expedite isnt like any other part of trucking you will ever find,sure its pick up and deliver,but it doesnt happen til the customer has made a mistake,now has to pay that high dollar to save his butt.and when i say high dollar,he might be paying 3 times the revenue he could of paid if he could of sent it regular freight.after you deliver,you will be given a layover point,this might be good,or it might be loaded with trucks,as they are all witing for the next custome screw up,and that is why expedite is a hurry up and wait business.the best advantage to making mone in expedite is running with your wife,then when they have you doing short loads,and there are many of them,at least all the revenue goes into one household.the next best thing if your not married is to find a buddy to drive with,running single in expedite,is a very tough thing to do.it can be done,but your paycheck from 1 week to another can be erratic.good luck hope this helped a little

 

[Broompilot]

Phil I stick by my GUNS your $ and nest egg according to so many of your Posts came from all of your previous SUCCESS's. See your own posts.

This added to it but I doubt it catipulted you from 0 to rich's to afford the Motorhome/cargo truck you now can afford. And by the way you have avoided my question of a year ago to compare your #s from O/O vs #s from the old days of Driving for all those Owners.

How many owners did you go thru?

How much did it cost you everytime to find that new Owner and Transfere everything from one truck to the other (down time).

One thing for sure owning ones own truck resolves that issue and your, your own boss its your truck no leaking fuel tank to explaine to the owner who says (than do not fill it up cause I aint fixing it) this is a direct quote from a Post last night.

Plus here is the most important aspect in a Partnership one thing for sure aint gona sail THE SHIP!!!!! AUTHOR DAVE RAMSEY could not agree more. Any argument for my success along the way? May not be expediting any longer but still in the industry and still doing GREAT on my own with no Partners.

Bottom line is have the confidence to make this work, and if you do not have the funds than keep saving make it a goal and that goal will become reality. Otherwise try it and find out like so many others who well are no longer here. This site has the answers to help you become successfull even as much as Phil. I just dissagree with his plan on starting out driving for someone else and not setting up your destiney but making somone else $ along the way.

There is no better feeling THAN I DID IT MYSELF put a price tag on that success?

 

[nightcreacher]

This is an older post,but I have to say something,in every business there is a learning curve,that is why the IRS lets show a loss for 5 years in most businesses,in fact you only have to show a profit once in 5 years.The business we are in is really simple,your loads bring revenue in,the money you spend, in part, are your expenses,and you try to keep your expenses lower than your revenue.Fixed expenses never change,the expenses you have whether the truck runs or not.Variable expenses are those that change cause the number of miles you run,which effects the cost.At the end of the month,the difference of what you take in to what you pay out is your profit.Its not rocket science.The biggest difference in expedite over regular trucking,is our loads are not as frequent.We have to wait,til the customer has a real need,and specialized freight has a higher revenue,so that is why we are expediters,we do the impossible.We save many companies from shutting down,and this is why expedite will never go away.Biggest trouble, there are more companies available,and to get the business they arent charging what the tariffs will bring.,infact ,they are charging less than what the loads went for in the 80's,when all the expenses were much lower.

 

[nightcreacher]

Broom this is one of those things you and I disagree about.What happens,you go out and buy a D truck,its has everything needed to make the money you expect to make,you get that 1st load ,deliver it,then the second load is going coast to coast.As just starting,like most,between insurance and other start up expenses,they are now running short of money,but they have a load paying 4000 bucks,take a 1600 dollar advance,fill the fuel tanks up,go 100 miles,and the motor blows up,hello Mr Murphy.As you know,the load is taken away,and now they owe the advance ,since you didnt do the load,this will come out of the 1st load.You have to repair the truck,down time,maybe motel bills,hello bankrupcy.No my friend,if your comming from another form of transportation,then I will agree with you,but if you just being introduced to trucking,then a few months with a good owner is valuable.

 

[mypie]

. . . then I will agree with you,but if you just being introduced to trucking,then a few months with a good owner is valuable.[/QUOTE]


So, Mr. Nightcreature, as a Newby just getting into the business - how am I to determine whether or not I am indeed going with a "good owner"? Some of the stories that I have read here would cause me to run far and fast in the other direction, while others would have me signing on the dotted line.

But, before getting into the business, when you find a fleet owner, how can I best determine if he is a stand up kind of guy?

 

[arkjarhead]

I know I'm not Nightcreature, but here is what you can do.
1. Google his name and look for court cases where he is named the defendant.
2. Ask to speak with current and former drivers.
3. Ask these drivers if they know of any other current or former drivers you can talk. There may be a reason he wants you to talk to just these. He may be hiding something.
4. Get a contract, and have a lawyer look over it. Most lawyers won't charge much to review the contract. It could save you money down the road. There are many posts here on EO on what a good contract should contain.

Again I know I'm not Nightcreature, but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents worth.

 

[ATeam]

Phil I stick by my GUNS your $ and nest egg according to so many of your Posts came from all of your previous SUCCESS's. See your own posts.

FALSE. And I will kindly thank you to not misrepresent my circumstances. Yes, we had some money in the bank when we entered expediting. Only a fool would enter expediting without financial reserves. But from our very first check received as expediters, we funded the business and built reserves from our expedite earnings. We never once tapped into the personal funds we had available when we first entered the business. Our expedite earnings were enough.

This added to it but I doubt it catipulted you from 0 to rich's to afford the Motorhome/cargo truck you now can afford.

Again, FALSE. And again, I will thank you to not misrepresent my circumstances. The truck we now drive is being paid for ENTIRELY with our expedite earnings. We saved money while driving fleet owner trucks and used it for the down payment. Current payments come out of current earnings. The purchase price was $255,000. The truck was purchased in June, 2006. At present, we owe $25,800 on the truck, which we could pay off today, but are not because we want to keep our reserves above a certain level.

Broom, this is an expedite success story, made possible by us, a newbie team, beginning in fleet owner trucks. Our truck wis not being paid for in less than two years from its purchase date. It is being paid for over the three years we spent in fleet owner trucks, when we saved money for the down payment, plus the payments and extra payments we are making since the truck was purchased in June, 2006.

And by the way you have avoided my question of a year ago to compare your #s from O/O vs #s from the old days of Driving for all those Owners.

How many owners did you go thru?

Perhaps I avoided the question because I do not belive it is not being asked in good faith for straightforward information, but in bad faith so as to put a negative spin on the answer.

In the three years we drove fleet owner trucks, we drove six different trucks owned by five different owners. Note the word "owner" vs. "fleet owner." Two of the five did not run fleets. They owned one truck and drove it themselves. But we ended up driving those trucks because they had health problems that kept them from driving their own trucks. We helped them by keeping their trucks rolling while they dealt with their health issues. They helped us by paying us like a fleet owner would, enabling us to continue saving for a truck of our own. That means, regarding true fleet owners, we drove four different trucks for three fleet owners over a three year period.

For newbies reading this and wondering how to find a good fleet owner, we found Tim and Pat Hopkins to be the best of the bunch. These two brothers each run a fleet. They live in the Columbus Ohio area and lease their trucks to FedEx Custom Critical.

How much did it cost you everytime to find that new Owner and Transfere everything from one truck to the other (down time).

There are costs for sure when you incur down time to move from one truck to another. To assign a dollar figure to each move, I would have to go back into past records to figure them up. The ideal scenario would be to stay with one fleet owner until you feel ready to proceed as an owner-operator. For some, it is no less of an ideal scenario to stay with the same fleet owner forever. But when financial circumstances make it wise to move from one fleet owner (like one that does not maintain his trucks) to another, the financially prudent thing to do is move.

Focusing just on the costs of changing fleet owners would be misleading. The complete story is we were in fleet owner trucks for three years. In that time, our revenue exceeded expenses such that we could save money and make a nice down payment on a new truck when the time came to do so.

One thing for sure owning ones own truck resolves that issue and your, your own boss its your truck no leaking fuel tank to explaine to the owner who says (than do not fill it up cause I aint fixing it) this is a direct quote from a Post last night.

Sorry Broom. I have no idea what you are talking about here. You will have to make yourself more clear to get across whatever point you are trying to make.

Plus here is the most important aspect in a Partnership one thing for sure aint gona sail THE SHIP!!!!! AUTHOR DAVE RAMSEY could not agree more.

While it depends on the person, and while driving fleet owner trucks forever is the right choice for some expediters (those who cannot or do not want to manage owner-operator business challenges), it was a happy day for Diane and me when we became the captains of our own ship.

Emotionally for us, the most difficult part of driving fleet owner trucks was taking time off. While we had a record and production levels any fleet owner would delighted with, and while every single fleet owner we had said it was OK for us to take time off, it always ate at us that we left the fleet owner's asset sitting idle in our driveway from time to time.

We knew that while we took time off, the owner's payments did not stop. We knew that despite what the owners told us about off time, they would be happier still to see us running. It feels 1,000% percent better now, taking time off and not worrying about anyone's revenue but our own. It is also nice to be able to drill a hole in the truck and run a wire without first asking someone else if it would be OK.

Any argument for my success along the way? May not be expediting any longer but still in the industry and still doing GREAT on my own with no Partners.

Let's be clear about your success, shall we? When you left expediting, you quit "due to NO INCOME." That is a direct quote from your post of August 20, 2007, in which you explained your change from straight-truck expediting to tractor-trailer driving.

At that time, you had been in the expedite business since November 15, 2004. Your expedite career included leasing to two carriers and an episode where you ran a second truck with another driver in it for a while, but not for long. Nearly three years in the business and leaving "due to NO INCOME" may be a success as a learning experience, but is is not a business success story.

You may be doing great on you own as a tractor-trailer driver, but you did not do great as an expediter. Above, you wanted me to account for the down time involved in moving from one fleet owner truck to another. If we applied the same standard to you, how successful has ALL the time you spent as a truckr really been? Did you sell the brand new expedite truck you bought when you first started for a profit? Has your six months of revenue in your tractor-trailer made up for nearly three years of "NO INCOME" as an expediter?

I am not saying this in a mean spirited way and it is not my intent to make you look bad here. But if you are going to talk about your success, it is only right that readers know your track record. Above, I thanked you to not misrepresent my circumstances. If I have errored in representing yours, I will thank you to correct me.

Bottom line is have the confidence to make this work, and if you do not have the funds than keep saving make it a goal and that goal will become reality. Otherwise try it and find out like so many others who well are no longer here. This site has the answers to help you become successfull even as much as Phil. I just dissagree with his plan on starting out driving for someone else and not setting up your destiney but making somone else $ along the way.

Yes, we made money for others along the way. So what? What do you think you do every time you fuel your truck, buy a meal at a truck stop and pay your taxes and tolls? The point of the game is to make money for yourself, which we did by starting out in fleet owner trucks.

There is no better feeling THAN I DID IT MYSELF put a price tag on that success?

Your wife stays home, maintains the household, and provides a second income for the family while you are out on the road. Would she agree when you say, "I DID IT MYSELF"?

While it may be emotionally fulfilling to do it yourself, it may or may not make business sense to try to do so. No expediter succeeds by himself or herself. We succeed with help from carriers, shippers, consignees, law enforcement, insurance companies, vendors, fellow expediters, friends, family and a host of others.

I suggest that the more willing one is to recognize and operate in that reality, the easier it will be for one to achieve the financial goals he or she sets.

If the core issue is wanting to do it yourself, beginning with a fleet owner is off the table. But if business success is the goal, starting in a fleet owner's truck is an option to be seriously considered.

 

[mypie]

Again I know I'm not Nightcreature, but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents worth.

Well, I'd say I got my money's worth! I like cheap!

Thanks.