I have recently spoken to 5 different owners about getting into their trucks and not a single one has a contract. What's up with that? I thought since that was cardinal rule number one to make sure that a contract was available there would have been at least 4 out 5 with them.
Contracts
- Thread starter movercash
- Start date
nightcreacher
Veteran Expediter
unless you get a contract,don't sign on with anyone.Most of the up and up owners have contracts.
PlusServices
Seasoned Expediter
We always use a contract and stand behind it. Just keep in mind that even with a contract, that contract is only as good as the owner offering it.
More importantly, is have a LAWYER review it.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Yes but since no one listens, what's the use of saying it over and over and over when these threads on how drivers get screwed pop up.
Zoli
Veteran Expediter
OK. My question is why YOU don't have a contract?
That's a good question, are you a driver or owner. If your a driver do you have a contract? If you do maybe you could share the body of it with me. I don't have any objections to one. I've just found in the past when I've had my own authority and was leasing big trucks to companies that they had a contract and basically would consider no contract but theres. So please share with us/me.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
The driver should not present the owner a contract.
The owner is providing the equipment and covering the insurance, so on and the driver is only providing the service of controlling the equipment.
The contract isn't there just to protect the driver but also protect the owner.
The driver and owner negotiate the contract based on their individual needs.
The owner is providing the equipment and covering the insurance, so on and the driver is only providing the service of controlling the equipment.
The contract isn't there just to protect the driver but also protect the owner.
The driver and owner negotiate the contract based on their individual needs.
LisaLouHoo
Expert Expediter
This is very true. No matter the size of the company, there needs to be a contract, detailing what is expected of both the contracted driver and the owner.
The owner or their designated representative MUST go over each article, paragraph, and sub-paragraph of the contract with the driver to insure a clear understanding of the document; that way, conflicts can be avoided, or at the very least kept to a minimum.
I would say never sign on without a contract; never sign a contract without clear understanding of each entity. If an owner has no contract or just tosses one your way and says, "Here, sign this!", I would advise one to think twice or more.
Sure, they are a pain in the neck to write; there can be many revisions over weeks or months in order to have a contract that is viable; but in the long run? It is worth it, for both the owner AND their contracted driver.
The contracts do NOT need to be lengthy nor do they have to have an overabundance of legalese. Clear, concise, and noted that they are open ended to allow for revision as the situations warrant (that in itself needs to be spelled out in the contract).
A driver should not have the audacity to present a contract to an owner. If they choose to sign on with an owner, then THEY need to decide which company contract works well for THEM. If a driver feels the need to have their own contract to present to an owner, then they should not consider expediting as their chosen field.
I'm just guessing, But I think OOIDA could help you with Contract language for your situation.
Audacity?
How about helpfulness? How about skill?
My wife is an attorney and knows a thing or two about contracts. Many fleet owners don't have a clue. We chose expediting and later became owner operators. I can think of numerous scenarios where the legal skills we bring to the table could be of great benefit to a fleet owner or other business person we were entering into a relationship with.
Many, I dare say even most, fleet owner contracts are a joke. The poor quality of them makes it quite likely that a knowledgable driver might feel a need to bring one's own contract to the table.
Now, having said that, Diane also knows that a poorly worded contract works against the drafter if a contract dispute ends up in court. We signed the joke contracts because we knew we could use them against the fleet owners if we ever ended up in court.
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greg334
Veteran Expediter
But as much as your post helped Phil, it also must be noted that we do not always have an in-house practicing lawyer. However as much as this may pain you, you may agree that this is one of the tools that a possible driver for any owner should seek out - a lawyer.
ALSO I must also add that your success may be very well driven by two things, one is Diana who I do not doubt has kept a careful eye on everything and both of your persistence to keep clear of bad situations (which is all a compliment). Unlike you two, many don't have that insight or awareness which takes me right back to getting the right tools in the tool box.
ALSO I must also add that your success may be very well driven by two things, one is Diana who I do not doubt has kept a careful eye on everything and both of your persistence to keep clear of bad situations (which is all a compliment). Unlike you two, many don't have that insight or awareness which takes me right back to getting the right tools in the tool box.
LisaLouHoo
Expert Expediter
If a fleet owner doesn't have a clue about writing a simple contract, then in my opinion, they have no business being a fleet owner.
If a driver feels the need to present their own contract to a fleet owner, then they need to look elsewhere for a contract that will suit them. How many expediting companies, big and small, are out in the world? More than just 2 or 3, I am guessing.
Researching contracts from other companies does help to lay a foundation for documentation.
Of course poorly worded contracts work against the fleet owner. I would recommend dealing with more than one person in drafting such a document; people within their own field of expediting, people who have had experience with good/bad/no contracts....and using a dictionary and thesaurus.
In a small fleet business, perhaps "agreement" is more correct terminology. It states what the fleet owner will do for the driver: pay, maintenance, fuel, et al; what the driver is to do for the fleet owner: contact, load acceptance or denial, use of fleet owner's equipment, etc; grounds for termination of contract by either party; if a change in the agreement is to be instituted, the driver will be notified and given a written copy of the change.
It should never be worded in such a fashion that the impression of the driver being "owned" by the fleet owner is given. It should be made perfectly clear that the fleet owner does NOT practice heavy-handedness, but rather to run a successful business and have the driver be a part of the business' success. Each entity should reflect this mission.
It takes MANY weeks of daily wording, rewording, arranging, rearranging, adding, subtracting entries to get a workable agreement. One that satisfies the owner AND the driver. Fortunately for the fleet owner I am involved with, he has had experienced expediters tell him the agreement is the fairest one they have ever dealt with. A large part of that comes from the fleet owner himself being an expediter for many years now and having contracted with several different carriers, each one with their strengths and weaknesses. He and I constructed his agreement based on his first hand knowledge.
Keep it simple, understandable, do not confuse with double-edged legal jargon, as most fleet owners do not have attorneys at the ready; one misuse of terminology will sink a fleet owner, and too sad there are people in this world just LOOKING for that mistake; but they can draw off other fleet owners who do and have had their "agreements" validated.
To call a "contract" a joke and sign it anyway? It wasn't a contract at all. It was more than likely a "basic agreement". If something doesn't set well with a driver in a contract or agreement, then they shouldn't sign.
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greg334
Veteran Expediter
I have to point out a practical side of contracts. If a fleet owner is so cheap to copy a contract from someone else, be it a carrier or another fleet owner, then they open themselves up to a problem - legal representation can limited.
What I mean is this;
An owner I know has a number of trucks on with a large carrier. He copied sections out of several other contracts he got and thought it was a great idea. His drivers who he consulted with thought it was too.
One day one of his drivers was caught up in a mess on the border (I will not give the details), not a big deal, it was a carrier/owner issue more than a driver issue but it turned into a driver issue. The driver was let go because of it, and when the driver got a lawyer, filed suit in his court for what he thought was lost wages (making it look like he was an employee for a number of reasons) the owner got a lawyer to fight it. The owner was upset because the lawyer took the contract and read through it, then told the owner settle with the driver with what ever he wants. He got the same opinion from other lawyers he had look at the contract.
Here is the reason this happened.
The owner pieced together a mess and it actually made the driver look like an employee. As I said he copied from other contracts with the idea that his business was the same as others. He left a big gaps in the contract by not having an understanding what legal liabilities he faced and the relationship he had to maintain with a contract he engaged. His assumption was that the driver has to be part of the contract process but the lawyer who fixed his problem said it isn't a issue of negotiation outside of the rates and fee responsibility, everything else is fixed and should be to limit the liabilities of the owner first (the party who has made the capital investment) and the contractor second.
What I mean is this;
An owner I know has a number of trucks on with a large carrier. He copied sections out of several other contracts he got and thought it was a great idea. His drivers who he consulted with thought it was too.
One day one of his drivers was caught up in a mess on the border (I will not give the details), not a big deal, it was a carrier/owner issue more than a driver issue but it turned into a driver issue. The driver was let go because of it, and when the driver got a lawyer, filed suit in his court for what he thought was lost wages (making it look like he was an employee for a number of reasons) the owner got a lawyer to fight it. The owner was upset because the lawyer took the contract and read through it, then told the owner settle with the driver with what ever he wants. He got the same opinion from other lawyers he had look at the contract.
Here is the reason this happened.
The owner pieced together a mess and it actually made the driver look like an employee. As I said he copied from other contracts with the idea that his business was the same as others. He left a big gaps in the contract by not having an understanding what legal liabilities he faced and the relationship he had to maintain with a contract he engaged. His assumption was that the driver has to be part of the contract process but the lawyer who fixed his problem said it isn't a issue of negotiation outside of the rates and fee responsibility, everything else is fixed and should be to limit the liabilities of the owner first (the party who has made the capital investment) and the contractor second.
Having a attorney in the truck isn't realistic for most. What is realistic is the ability to obtain one when necessary.
We have several in the family, but again, that isn't realistic for most.
One should shop for one ahead of time and have one available should the need arise. This usually happens when one gets out of the employee mentality and looks at this as a actual business.
Same thing with dealing with fleet owners as I have advised in the past. If there is doubt, check for current and past drivers for verification. If that can't be provided, you might very well be in the wrong place. Reputation goes a long way in this business.
"Businessman first, driver second".
We have several in the family, but again, that isn't realistic for most.
One should shop for one ahead of time and have one available should the need arise. This usually happens when one gets out of the employee mentality and looks at this as a actual business.
Same thing with dealing with fleet owners as I have advised in the past. If there is doubt, check for current and past drivers for verification. If that can't be provided, you might very well be in the wrong place. Reputation goes a long way in this business.
"Businessman first, driver second".
greg334
Veteran Expediter
LisaLouHoo
Expert Expediter
I absolutely agree that, to plagiarize a contract, would be beyond detrimental; to use as reference points, that can be very beneficial in determining what is good and what isn't.
I can only imagine what a clusterbomb a contract that is comprised of paragraphs from Company A, B, C, and LMNOP would look and read like.
You certainly know that in researching contracts, we came across some things that were head scratchers, not just in their wording, but also in their meaning.
As with any other business, reputation goes as far as any written agreement; however, both sides need to know what they are getting into.
Going in with nothing is perilous, for both.
I can only imagine what a clusterbomb a contract that is comprised of paragraphs from Company A, B, C, and LMNOP would look and read like.
You certainly know that in researching contracts, we came across some things that were head scratchers, not just in their wording, but also in their meaning.
As with any other business, reputation goes as far as any written agreement; however, both sides need to know what they are getting into.
Going in with nothing is perilous, for both.
That is the value of a attorney. If dealing with different carriers, you would need separate contracts for each as the language between carrier leases will be different.
If you used a generic one, it will likely have numerous conflicts in it.