Bush is a Marxist

Which candidate will save us?

  • McCain's POW experience makes him most qualified.

    Votes: 4 57.1%
  • Obama, of course. His speeches work Miracles!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • We're screwed.

    Votes: 3 42.9%

  • Total voters
    7
  • Poll closed .

hexmode

Technoweenie
How's that for provocative?

Consider that when other countries take ownership of private firms, it is called "Nationalization". Its what happened to oil companies in Iraq, Iran, Nigeria, etc. See Electoral-Vote.com's commentary

So, look around at what is happening to the financial industry. 80% of AIG was just bought out by the Government. FannieMae and FreddieMac are both nationalized now.

On top of the trillions of dollars of debt we're taking on? The Iraq war is adding trillions more dollars of debt every year.

And I'm supposed to believe that the next president is going to be able to lower taxes? Seriously?

Seriously?

If the next president does lower federal income by lowering income taxes, it will make the U.S. Dollar *more* vulnerable to shenanigans from China, et al.

And this is what you want? Really?
 
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hdxpedx

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
I want JIHAD GORE-LICK and FRANKIN (steal-all) RAINES bought up on CRIMINAL charges!! and ALL the rest of the clintonista's who started ALL this!! CHIRS (mo-money) dodge, obumer and the rest of these BIG OIL BIG MORTGAGE BIG PILL haters who bought ALL the above right to commitee's-- WHILE clintonista's NEVER have to ANSWER ANYTHING-except gore-lick she SAT as the FOX on her own 9/11 wall commission- which leads this country to your marxist remarks!!
 
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hexmode

Technoweenie
So, the six years that Republicans (including McCain) were the majority in congress and had a Republican president -- during those six years, they couldn't have fixed the problems the Clinton's caused?

Please. Even if Clinton caused it, the current administration still bears a large amount of guilt. And the current administration -- not the Clintons, not the Democrats -- is the one nationalizing the financial sector.
 

jbolton

Seasoned Expediter
So, the six years that Republicans (including McCain) were the majority in congress and had a Republican president -- during those six years, they couldn't have fixed the problems the Clinton's caused?

Please. Even if Clinton caused it, the current administration still bears a large amount of guilt. And the current administration -- not the Clintons, not the Democrats -- is the one nationalizing the financial sector.

Just shows you how much damage Bill Clinton did, not even the republicans could fix his mess!!!
This country will fall apart if 2 year senator obama is elected president.

He voted 129 times ( present ) he couldn't decide yes or no...I don't want somebody like that running my country! He even voted PRESENT on a bill to keep child predators away from schools, playgrounds, and churches! come on obama AS BIDEN WOULD SAY OBAMA " YOU JUST DONT GET IT"
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I agree wholeheartedly that the US Govt has no business bailing out business. What's next - the US auto makers? If these businesses are poorly managed they should be allowed to fail and let the market take its natural course. The Bush administration and the Democrat controlled congress share the blame in these election year ploys.

However, it's simply wrong to think that Bush is to blame for the subprime lending crisis and the Fannie/Freddie mess. It was the Clinton administration that put the rules and deregulation in place to allow anyone who could fog a mirror to get an enormous voodoo loan for a house they couldn't afford in the first place. Robert Reich (former Treasury Secretary under Clinton) has recently admitted as much, and stated that the policies put in place by Robert Rubin allowed a lot of the excesses by Fannie and Freddie to occur.

The next president will probably not be able to lower taxes - this is simply election year BS and Obama's talk about lowering the taxes for 95% of the American people shows how economically ignorant he is. To begin with, 95% of the American people don't pay income taxes - about 1/2 of that number don't pay any taxes at all, so what he wants to do is send them a check. That's called redistribution of wealth, aka socialism. The important thing is that the next president doesn't RAISE taxes, and that includes letting the Bush tax cuts expire - that would push us into a full-blown recession such as was endured during the Carter years. Regarding the cost of the war - this will continue to be a burden, but as it continues to wind down and the Iraqi economy grows and their oil production increases we should expect or even force them to pay us back for most of the costs incurred there. However, the war on terror will continue and we'll have the cost of that for the forseeable future. That's yet another reason to harvest our own oil resources.

Less govt regulation and congressional tinkering with the economy will go a long way to getting the recovery started. We need an all-out effort to recover our own natural resources, and that includes coal, offshore oil drilling without this ridiculous 50 mile limit and taking advantage of the oil in ANWR. Let Ford, GM and Chrysler build cars without the albatross of govt regulations and the cancerous UAW influence that threatens their very existance. This along with lower tax burdens will bring the economy back again and increase govt revenues, just like it has in times past when Kennedy, Reagan, and yes, Bush implimented lower taxes to allow more investment for business growth and more individual control for the American citizen over his own money.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Actually here is the reason why we should look past the "blame it on Bush"

This mess was created in the 60's. The need to have Federal National Mortgage Association *Fannie Mae removed from the federal budget, put it into a pseudo private hands.

Since then it has been a political boondoggle with both parties, landing a job at Fannie Mae was a great thing because we, the people, had no way to complain. The congress had a hand into it but not with executive saleries and retirements. Mis-management? who cares, because the money will continue to roll in and if we get into a little trouble, the feds will get us out of it.

NOW the problem is this, we are not seeing the people who handed us back the mess going to jail, they cooked the books and it is a serious problem when we let it go.

But THIS is only one issue.

AIG was run into the ground by the CEO and officers, no one else is at fault. Listening to Hank Greenberg this morning, I thought he was going to cry, he built the company and I think that many are now screaming to their senators to hand it back to Greenberg to fix it up.

By the way, one of the AIG people are Finanacial advisor to who?

Obama... so... this leads me to another issue, the president is not the one who has oversight on banking, congress does and they are to blame directly... to be exact... the democrat congress because since the dems got in, they quickly moved to relax these regulations and they ignored the warnings while taking the money.

Now Bush is to blame for not raising interest rates, he had a hand in lowering them. This is a disaster, he trashed the dollar at the expense of our economy. I most say it should have been raised, get more investment into the country and so on.

So for those who think that Obama is a great savoir, look out....
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Sorry for the second post.

Pilgrim,
I do not want to see a dime going to the auto companies, they have had so many tax breaks and had a lot of time (like 10 years with good profitable years) to reinvest and make cars that get good mileage.

See I think that they are lying to the American people, the CEO of Ford said that in order for us to get these car designed and in the market, they need the money because "the world needs these cars".

OK idiot, why are you selling cars in Europe getting 30% better mileage than here and they are not Diesel?

Why are you selling cars in South America and Asia that get better mileage?

Why do you need money to continue to research things that are already on the market in the world?

I heard the UAW follow up, and that was just as much bunch of cr*p saying that we will lose more jobs if we don't get this money. OK, let the companies become right to work companies and let them deal with the real employment market. The UAW has been a hinderence, not all the reasons why these companies are in trouble but a hinderence to them. I say automation should be a priority, it is other industries and other auto companies.

Oh and why does chrysler need government money? they are a private company run by a billionaire, let him sell some stock.
 

hexmode

Technoweenie
the democrat congress because since the dems got in, they quickly moved to relax these regulations and they ignored the warnings while taking the money.

Could you point to specific things the Democrats did in the past two years to back this up?

My understanding is that this crisis has been building for quite some time. I bought my first home just as the bubble was beginning to grow -- 1997 -- and made a very tidy profit. From 1995 until 2006, the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress. From 2000 till now, the Republicans have controlled the executive branch.

I simply don't understand how you can say that the Democrats caused the house of cards to crumble in the past two years.

(I do not hold Clinton and Democrats guiltless. For example, while people like to talk about the "Bush Doctrine", it was Clinton who started unilateral intervention in Serbia. While that ended better for us than Iraq, it gave Bush even more clout for his "Doctrine")
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Could you point to specific things the Democrats did in the past two years to back this up?


Well I am going to only tackle one subject with one committee, the reform of Fannie Mae. It needed serious reform, stop gaps put in and accountability returned.


This actually goes back to 2000 but here is a sort of detailed description that I threw together quickly.

Remember that we needed to reform these entities since the ‘90s and congress, especially the senate, was not really ‘run’ as a full majority from 95 to 2006, there were a lot of fights and compromises made and it was false that the repubs could push anything through, everything was a fight except one or two bills.

So lets start......

The United States House Committee on Financial Services (or better known as House Banking Committee) is the committee that oversees the Federal Reserve, the United States Department of the Treasury, the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, and a bunch of other financial services regulators within the government and oversees Fannie and Freddie.

Back in 2000, the chairman of the house financial services, capital markets subcommittee, Richard Baker was really concern with Fannie and Freddie taking on really large risky unsecured debt. This concern came out of the ’92 changes to the regulatory laws that loosened up on mortgage rules for the Clinton administration to fulfill a stupid promise - homes for anyone. Rep. Baker proposed a reform bill to the sub committee and then it made it to the committee. Now here is the real issue, Barney Frank worked hard to kill this bill in the committee. His comments were longwinded but he summed them up with these two bits saying concerns about the two were "overblown" and that there was "no federal liability there whatsoever."

So in 2002, another reform bill was introduced and again it was killed in committee by the dems led by Barney Frank. I think killing it was part of the compromise made to stop the threats of filibuster any republican bill in the senate but unsure. Well again he and others said something to the effect "I do not regard Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as problems," while there were repubs starting to get upset with this high amount of high risk debt.

Oh let me throw this in, the people who ran Fannie had something to do with the Clinton administration.

So in the 2000 to 2003 time period there were serious problems going on within Fannie, one thing they were cooking the books to cover up bad debt; again another bill was introduced to reform these two things and again the Dems led by Barney Frank killed it. Some time in June 03 the Fannie accounting mess hit the papers and nothing was done about it, Frank responded by saying "I do not think we are facing any kind of a crisis,"

Now here is the catch, during the time that Jamie Gorelick was running Fannie with Frank Raines (remember she is the assistant US attorney General under Reno and the creator of the wall between law enforcement agencies allowing 9/11 and he was well another Clinton flunky), it just so happened that she came out and said in 2002 "We believe we are managed safely. We are very pleased that Moody's gave us an A-minus in the area of bank financial strength -- without a reference to the government in any way. Fannie Mae is among the handful of top-quality institutions." Giving Barney Frank more ammunition to hold off any other attempts to have reform bills get past the committee but then sometime in 2004, one of the audits done by the feds uncovered something like $9 billion in loses during part of their tenure and that was just the start and Frank said then that there is no risk involved with these loses and that “I think Wall Street will get over it”. The SEC was investigating other allegations but the thing is that Raines got to retire out of Fannie and Gorelick resigned in 2003 before it all came out.

By the way, you got to ask yourself if there is no real problems with the dems running this in to the ground, why did a Clinton appointee who was a government servant end up with millions in Fannie Mae stock and sme $100 million in benefits?

So in 2007, with the newly elected Democratic congress, Barney Frank now is the head of the house banking committee. He has said that “What blocked it [reform] last year," Mr. Frank said then, "was the insistence of some economic conservative fundamentalists in the Bush Administration who, to be honest, don't think there should be a Fannie Mae or a Freddie Mac.". Yep I don't think there should be one either but the Bush Administration has zero to do with the reform, Bush could not do anything, it was the congress who was empowered to make those decisions and by the way the bill that was presented out of sub-committee was the same exact bill that was presented out of sub-committee in the previous congress and it was a "bi-partisan" effort but was benched.

Since that time, there has been zero work on serious reform of Fannie and Freddie to stop these loses. I also heard that the house banking committee has helped bury in amendments to other senate/house bills exemptions to the Sarbanes – Oxley and other regulatory laws to protect a lot of people. These all came out of the Enron mess but haven’t found specifics yet to that if it is fact or not.

But also since that time, there has been a few other things going on. The house banking committee and the senate committee on housing, banking and urban affairs has push hard for more loans to people who can’t afford them since taking over in 2007 even though there was tightening in the credit market (the original Clinton position was to give loans to let people own houses). I think they loosened up a lot of the regulations still even more revently but I haven't looked at that yet (this is a quick response) and with the lower interest rates, brought us to this point in history.

The stakes are high, it is all about money. Because the senate committee is chaired by Chris Dodd and he with help from a few other democrats, have been receiving some interesting perks for congress's help on looking the other way.

Let’s look at one really quick….

Country Wide Mortgage, who has been bought out amazingly quick (no real hearings on it, no nothing, just got cleared by the fed reserve and that's it), made low interest loans to a number of ‘politicians’ like Mr. Dodd. Actually these are way, way below market rate unsecured loans. The person who made this all possible, Angelo Mozilo CEO of Country Wide. He helped oh a few people like Dodd, Senate finance committee chairman Kent Conrad and dum dee dum …. Fannie Mae former-CEO Jim Johnson.

OK so far?

Here is where it get’s kind of confusing.

There are many ‘FoA’s out there (that is Friends of Angelo) and again one of them is Obama. Now I would bet that he has something to do to help Angelo but I won’t go anymore into this other than he has some amazing Friends helping out Obama.

OH yea let me go down this Angelo path a bit because it seems that he was doing something that others are in jail for, insider trading. But amazingly because there are two connections here with the SEC, Barney Frank and some residual from the Frank Raines SEC days, nothing seems to have happened here. See Country Wide seems to be the trigger of this ‘crisis’ and it set off the problem with Fannie.

So we have Jim Johnson, who ran Fannie back in the 90’s when Raines took over, ’98. He amazingly also was part of Lehman Brothers too. But see he is still the advisor to Obama, I seen his name mentioned today.

With all that, we still have no real investigations, no one going to go to jail and we end up with an estimated ready for this one…. Some $53 trillion in debt by this mess.

Now the other thing that I am forgetting is the housing market itself, there is a lot of money that changed hands since 2000 on the dems side from these large home building companies (Pulte comes to mind) and amazingly since the liberal court ruled on Kelo v. New London, the Dems have blocked a few bills in committee that puts back the restrictions on eminent domain.

I know I didn’t explain it well. It is really all about three things;

Making the Bush administration look like they are 100% at fault

About getting Obama into office

Getting more power

I won’t get into the blockage of amendments for expanding Sarbanes or the removal of the protections that the dems have created.

But I will say this, since Obama has been touting some crazy thing about ethics, he should be the first to step up and start naming names in his party. I know the blame sits on both sides of the aisle but the problem is that when this guy, who really has had his hand in the cookie jar claims he led efforts to clean up Washington, speaks of change and all that BS, he should be doing, not talking. The truth is that he with Biden’s help will cover it all up, will stop the investigations and like he did in Chicago will stop the people from speaking about these problems.

I listened to McCain, he said it, his party is at fault too, and I think that he will do something about it but not much. See it is clear, who really is to blame for this is US, the people. With the leadership in both parties faltering and lying to the people, the Dems have the lead right now in idiots and crazies running the party but again the repubs are not to far behind. But the people fell for the BS when they should have known better.

Remember McCain will not be perfect but it is far better than a real Marxist.

Go comrade ….Vote for Obama, Lenin will be proud.
 
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Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
RE the poll: these are three false premises.
(1) McCain's incarceration as a POW qualifies him for nothing except gratitude from the nation. Not a valid choice.
(2) It's become evident with the passage of time that Barack Hussein Obama's recitations of speeches written by David Axelrod accomplish nothing but the excitement of hard core left-wing democrats and naive college students. This is also not a valid option.
(3) We're screwed - no, we've survived the Carter, Ford and Johnson administrations. We'll survive a McCain administration; however, an Obama administration would bring with it the most liberal and unqualified president in the history of the country. The damage he would do to would be worse than that of Carter, and the recovery would be much longer.
My vote is for none of the above.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Whatever you say about Greg, he sure does his homework! :D

I'll go on to add a couple of things here...

In 2005, McCain brought up on the Senate floor, that Fannie and Freddie had to be reigned in. He was quite disturbed about the pending disaster which has now been brought to light. That was THREE YEARS AGO!!! The proposed bill to fix the problem did not pass.

The donations from the heads of these two pseudo-government agencies (lobbying) to Congress from 1998 to 2008... top of the list is Chris Dodd. Second is Barak Obama (notice he's only been in for three years). Next on the list (not in order) are Hillary Clinton, Barney Frank, and John Kerry.

To me, the ones who blocked the investigations and ultimate solutions should be held accountable. Anyone who gave PROVEN FALSE TESTIMONY to cover the asses of those who were cooking the books should be tried in court! That includes Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, as well as the executives for F&F. This was a clear abuse of those in Congress who have a DUTY to uphold the laws of the land. Instead, they made out like big dogs at the expense of the American people when they KNEW what was happening. Yet, they did nothing to stop it, and everything to instigate it.

This is the new House post office check cashing scandal... but on a national scale. Carter was lucky to have his problems; as they pale in comparison to what's going on now, and what's to come. People need to stop watching crap, and pay attention; cause the giant is has one foot off the cliff, and the ground is crumbling under the other foot.
 

always confused

Seasoned Expediter
it would be a refreshing change if a few of those who caused this mess went to jail for a few lifetimes. but first take all their assets away and return the money to the tresury. don't leave them a dime. let them and their familys serve as an example for the rest that 'if you fiddle you pay.'
 

late4dinner

Seasoned Expediter
Pilgrim, I don't know what planet you are from but for you to say that 95% of the people don't pay income taxes and 50% don't pay any taxes at all is just out of this world.
 

Dispatched

Not a Member
I'll go on to add a couple of things here...

And, i'll add 2 cents worth of info that was never mentioned.

.......Since this whole mess actually began with the Carter Administration.

The untold story in this whole national crisis is that President Clinton put on steroids the Community Redevelopment Act, a well-intended Carter-era law designed to encourage minority homeownership. And in so doing, he helped create the market for the risky subprime loans that he and Democrats now decry as not only greedy but “predatory.”
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Pilgrim, I don't know what planet you are from but for you to say that 95% of the people don't pay income taxes and 50% don't pay any taxes at all is just out of this world.


I guess I mangled that statement somewhat, so let me try again now that I've had some sleep. I'm using approximate figures because I don't feel like slogging through the IRS website this late at night. The percentage of our population that pays income taxes is not 95% - it's more like 55%. The top 50% of all wage earners pays 96.54% of all income taxes - that figure does come from IRS.gov. That means about 40-45% of the people don't pay any income taxes at all - whatever might get withheld from their checks gets refunded after they file their returns. Therefore, it would be impossible for Obama to lower taxes for 95% of our working people, even if he really intended to do that. But for people that pay no taxes, he intends to send them a check anyway, even if they have no taxes of their own in the govt. coffers; that's called redistribution of wealth. He will take the tax dollars that you and I pay and give them to the people that do little or no work. This type of socialism is to be expected from our country's most liberal senator.
 

hexmode

Technoweenie
Remember that we needed to reform these entities since the ‘90s and congress, especially the senate, was not really ‘run’ as a full majority from 95 to 2006, there were a lot of fights and compromises made and it was false that the repubs could push anything through, everything was a fight except one or two bills.

Interesting. I had to listen to Dems wail about how mean and terrible Republicans were and how they dominated congress.

In 2005-2006 Senate was 55-44 advantage Republicans. Current makeup of congress is 49-49 with Independents Lieberman (who campaigned for McCain, so I'm not sure you can group him with yellow dog democrats) and Bernie Sanders caucusing with the Democrats.

Given that the Republican majority was broader in the senate than the current Democratic majority; given that you said the Republicans couldn't run congress as a full majority; given that many Democrats are upset with the current congress's inaction on issues they find important -- given all that, I'm not sure why Democrats are to blame for this mess. As far as I can see, Republicans had an equal if not greater share of the blame.

.......Since this whole mess actually began with the Carter Administration.

Wow. Some people just feel they *must* blame a democrat no matter what.

While FannieMae was created as part of the New Deal and privatized by a Democrat (LBJ), Nixon created the current crisis by authorizing FannieMae to purchase conventional mortgages. See? Nixon and the REPUBLICANS created the whole mess that meant Bush (another REPUBLICAN) would have to re-nationalize FannieMae.

Blaming this party or that party is a never ending game. And it will never end.

Which is why I don't trust any of them.
 

arkjarhead

Veteran Expediter
This isn't intended to be a personal attack, or any other kind of attack for that matter. It is a question asked out of curiosity. Hexmode, what is your connection to the expedite industry? I'm not trying to be rude but that is what this site is for. There are strictly political forums out there though.
 

hdxpedx

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
obumer's community organizing ACORN(google) who picketed the banks --along with janet creno threatened legal action AGAINST banks to give mortgage's to low income neighborhoods after housing act was passed during clinton's marxist loony reign-- now the CHICKENS HAVE COME HOME TO ROUST!! Broke-back barney and chris dodge are in charge and along with obumer --pointing fingers!! McCain and BUSH are on record--- BUT cnn won't inform you--shhh you can't hear the truth..they keep that quiet--HERDING lemmings in lock step-obumer's media driven army ---withholding information!!WE listen to BOTH SIDES- LIBERIAL PROPAGANDA! targets the J-WALKERS! When I SEE ALL THOSE PEOPLE WITH obumer-- I think-- they are willing to spend $8 gallon gas!! WHAT?? they are BROKE@ $4 gas!! BEN LADEN IS A COMMUNITY ORGANIZER!!
 

hexmode

Technoweenie
This isn't intended to be a personal attack, or any other kind of attack for that matter. It is a question asked out of curiosity. Hexmode, what is your connection to the expedite industry?

I help Lawrence manage technical parts of this site -- software installation, etc. Before helping Lawrence with this site, I worked on other trucking-related sites. I met Lawrence through a mutual friend in the industry.

The "Soapbox Forum" description says "Got some to say about politics, the state of the world, what's happening today, just need to express your opinion? This is the place to do it! Just keep it civil!"

I think I've kept things civil -- but please point out any breaches of etiquette. For the record, I freely admit that calling Bush a Marxist is provocative (in that it has very little basis in reality) but calling Obama a Marxist is provocative in exactly the same way: it has very little basis in reality.

I posted here because although there are other political forums on the 'net, you guys have made me think and I hope I can make you think a bit. If we all sit around and listen to people like ourselves all day long, we won't learn anything.
 
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hdxpedx

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
I SEE ALL THOSE PEOPLE WITH obumer-- I think-- they are willing to spend $8 gallon gas!! WHAT?? they are BROKE@ $4 gas!! BEN LADEN IS A COMMUNITY ORGANIZER!![/QUOTE]

LIBERIAL MARXIST UPDATE ALERT!
Those same people who can't afford $4 gas need not worry here in ATL. the liberial EPA said no waiver for OUT OF STATE/CITY fuel deliveries , because they must be exotic blends due to EPA regs. HELLO??? THE CITY IS COMPLETELY OUT OF GAS!! ARE WE REACHING?? ALL THE STATIONS ARE OUT OF GAS!! EPA?? KNOCK KNOCK
 
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