Boycott the NFL

[letzrockexpress]

Anything can, and will be , manipulated. There are always those who seek to gain advantage through other than "rightful" means. The current world currencies may well become obsolete. That type of upheaval tends to happen through other than peaceful means. "These are the times that try Men's souls"

Do you know what Bitcoin is?

 

[layoutshooter]

Do you know what Bitcoin is?

Not very much, I have read a little about it. I know some dude threw away a flash drive with a lot on it. All I am saying is that if man came up with it, someone will try to find a way to pervert it. He has everything else, it would be rather naive to believe other wise. I don't believe there is any pie in the sky unpervertable system. People will be people, there will always be those who play by the rule and those who will not.

 

[layoutshooter]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/06/b...rom-using-bitcoin.html?hpw&rref=business&_r=0

 

[letzrockexpress]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/06/b...rom-using-bitcoin.html?hpw&rref=business&_r=0

The thing is these types of currency are anonymous and pier to pier. It is next to impossible to control them in any way. It's quite complicated, to me anyhow. I have been trying to get my head around it for a month or so. From what I have gleaned so far it is definitely a threat to the current world monetary system.

 

[layoutshooter]

The thing is these types of currency are anonymous and pier to pier. It is next to impossible to control them in any way.

I understand what you are saying, I just don't believe that there is ANYTHING that man comes up with that can't be monkeyed with. Is it true that there are only 21 million Bitcoins "allowed" as this article states?

Even IF there can be a way to have a PURE currency, there will be a very difficult path for us to get there. No government is going to willingly give up that kind of control. Force will likely be brought to bear in an attempt to maintain power.

 

[letzrockexpress]

I understand what you are saying, I just don't believe that there is ANYTHING that man comes up with that can't be monkeyed with. Is it true that there are only 21 million Bitcoins "allowed" as this article states?

Even IF there can be a way to have a PURE currency, there will be a very difficult path for us to get there. No government is going to willingly give up that kind of control. Force will likely be brought to bear in an attempt to maintain power.

Yes, only 21 million total ( because it is based on algorithms which are finite) with approximately 12 million already "mined" or computed.

I get what you're thinking about governments trying to suppress and control such a commodity but this is something that never existed before. There is no bank. There is no owner. There is no legislator, board of directors, agency, or fund that runs this thing. It is nothing more than a series of mathematical computations. That is where I get lost. I haven't yet figured out how these things have value. More to come when I do...

 

[layoutshooter]

Nothing like trusting a computer. Let me know IF you figure it out. IN the mean time. I gotta continue to earn useless pieces of green paper so I can give a bunch to those who did NOT earn it, give a bunch for stuff I am TOLD I HAVE to buy and spend the rest on staying alive.

Massive change as you suggest often leads to a lot of very dead people. Nothing is free and nothing takes place in a vacuum. Sooner or later the blades will be struck with manure.

 

[cheri1122]

First off, the politeness is only ONE part of the culture in Japan. Politeness would have had little to do with why "JIT" would be accepted quicker and work better there than here. The parts of the culture, like strict obedience when ordered, does not sit all that well here. We question more. It is the order and a much stricter adherence to the idea of living up to the responsibilities and expectations of your position that makes it work better.

In a very loose way one could describe Japan as a "beehive" or "ant colony". Everyone has a function and a place. Everyone is expected to do the job assigned, failure is not an option. That is one of the reasons their kids do better in school, they are expected to do well, parents, and the society in general, demand it, and the parents are expected to make sure that they do. There is little of the "feel good" stuff we have here. The work is demanding, and rather than lower standards to make it easier for the less gifted they expect the less gifted to work harder to make up for the lack of gifts. There are no trophies for just showing up.

No, I did NOT imply a desire to live under a culture like they have in Japan, I said that most American's, I suspect you, would not want too. You would like the "politeness" part but I have no doubt you would NEVER accept many of the traditions that they have or that their culture demands.

We, in the US, need to look a ways to develop systems that work within our culture. We need more "leaders" as opposed to "bosses" both in the work place and in politics. We do better when ideas pass from one level to the next, in both directions.

We DO however, need to start demanding that our kids do better in school. The "FLUFF" has to go. No participation trophies. There has to be intense competition, at all levels, the the best have to be allowed to excel. There has to be clear winners and losers. We once had that, we threw it out, the results show.

Yet again, you have simply ignored every question and point that refutes what you wrote, to focus on one thing, usually irrelevant, that you misunderstood to begin with.
My point was that Edward Deming created a system [not JIT!] that the Big 3 snickered at, so he took it to Japan. They didn't laugh - they adapted their manufacturing to his plan, and proceeded to kick the Big 3's Azzes. That system formed the basis of the current ISO certification standards, which so many companies are pleased to boast about - now. But they totally blew it when Deming offered it to America first.
Maybe because I deal with the automotive industry on a regular basis, I don't see that they have changed their spots, either.

 

[RLENT]

Yet again, you have simply ignored every question and point that refutes what you wrote, to focus on one thing, usually irrelevant, that you misunderstood to begin with.

Refuting the point that no one made, in order to ignore yours ?

 

[layoutshooter]

Yet again, you have simply ignored every question and point that refutes what you wrote, to focus on one thing, usually irrelevant, that you misunderstood to begin with.
My point was that Edward Deming created a system [not JIT!] that the Big 3 snickered at, so he took it to Japan. They didn't laugh - they adapted their manufacturing to his plan, and proceeded to kick the Big 3's Azzes. That system formed the basis of the current ISO certification standards, which so many companies are pleased to boast about - now. But they totally blew it when Deming offered it to America first.
Maybe because I deal with the automotive industry on a regular basis, I don't see that they have changed their spots, either.

No Cherii, I did not miss the point. I was TRYING to point out that it was cultural differences, on both sides of the ocean, that is the cause.

Deming's plan was only a PART of why they acheived so much. Their loss in WWII was a MAJOR contributor to that. Their plants had been destroyed in the bombing and they started with new, modern plants, ours were already older. They also subsidized their auto/manufacturing industries, heavily, which we did not. They were also dumping cars here, at a loss, to gain market hold.

Japan also did not have to spend as much on defense as we did. (we spent too much for sure and this is not meant to start that argument) We, the United States, assumed the bulk of that cost. That freed up a lot of their post war funds. So did it when WE paid for a lot of the cost of rebuilding, including their plants.

What happened is FAR more complex than a bunch of dumb auto owners. OUR unions were also a big contributor to the problem. Japan was not saddled with an adversary labor system as we were. That too was cultural.

I

 

[cheri1122]

Cultural differences played a role [in the execs' reception of Deming, and even more in the lack of friction between labor & management], but that does nothing whatsoever to explain how Japan changed their reputation for cheap products [basically throwaways] to a reputation for reliable quality, in a short time frame.
New infrastructure didn't do it: if they built the same junk with new parts, it's still junk. Government subsidies didn't do it [and I dispute the contention that the Big 3 didn't get any government help], nor did selling below market, which American manufacturers could have [and often have] done as well. At that time [late 50's] they didn't see any need to expand their market, or their quality, either. Because they were dam near incompetent, IMO.
Deming's system was a total transformation of the way manufacturing is done, including eliminating the destructive 'us vs them' union & management mindset, and the superiority of his work has been proven many times over. American executives were too arrogant to consider it, and far too many of them remain in that mindset still. As their salaries and bonuses attest.

 

[layoutshooter]

Cultural differences played a role [in the execs' reception of Deming, and even more in the lack of friction between labor & management], but that does nothing whatsoever to explain how Japan changed their reputation for cheap products [basically throwaways] to a reputation for reliable quality, in a short time frame.
New infrastructure didn't do it: if they built the same junk with new parts, it's still junk. Government subsidies didn't do it [and I dispute the contention that the Big 3 didn't get any government help], nor did selling below market, which American manufacturers could have [and often have] done as well. At that time [late 50's] they didn't see any need to expand their market, or their quality, either. Because they were dam near incompetent, IMO.
Deming's system was a total transformation of the way manufacturing is done, including eliminating the destructive 'us vs them' union & management mindset, and the superiority of his work has been proven many times over. American executives were too arrogant to consider it, and far too many of them remain in that mindset still. As their salaries and bonuses attest.

This discussion is a waste of time. In Japan there never was an "us vs them" system. I will not go into the rest of your post, you obviously have little background in this. The rest is best left unsaid as it could be construed as being degrading to you and I don't want to play that game.

There is a "name" for the syndrome you are displaying here, again, I don't wish to be banned.

All one has to do is look at how the US unions fought containers or "concasting" to see where the primary problems were. Add to that, a management system that was too rigid and the result was bound to happen. Blaming ONLY management or saying that ONLY the ideas of Demming could have changed this is naive, at best.

 

[cheri1122]

This discussion is a waste of time.


Sure, now it is, when you get tired of being called out on misstatements, misperceptions, diversions, and irrelevancies.

In Japan there never was an "us vs them" system.

That's what I said - did you miss it, or misunderstand it?

I will not go into the rest of your post, you obviously have little background in this.

That is a personal attack - you are commenting not on what I said, but on what you believe about me. Your failure to discern the difference is impressive.
As far as what I said, you failed to prove that a single statement was wrong or false, so how does that indicate that I "obviously have little background in this"?

The rest is best left unsaid as it could be construed as being degrading to you and I don't want to play that game.

Too late. The time to keep quiet was before you started.

There is a "name" for the syndrome you are displaying here, again, I don't wish to be banned.

Well, that lasted a long time: another personal attack. And it's the most cowardly kind, where you imply something, but don't have the guts to say it. Or you want to be able to say you meant something else, if challenged, which is also the coward's way.
So let's hear it: what syndrome am I displaying, in YOUR opinion?


All one has to do is look at how the US unions fought containers or "concasting" to see where the primary problems were. Add to that, a management system that was too rigid and the result was bound to happen. Blaming ONLY management or saying that ONLY the ideas of Demming could have changed this is naive, at best.

Nowhere did I say that ONLY [you really are too fond of caps!] the ideas of Deming [one 'm', not two] could have changed 'this' [whatever 'this' is], and management is ONLY to blame, because nothing happens until and unless they permit it.

 

[RLENT]

This discussion is a waste of time.

Because she's winning ... or because you're losing ?

I will not go into the rest of your post, you obviously have little background in this. The rest is best left unsaid as it could be construed as being degrading to you and I don't want to play that game.

Ad hominem by vague implication ?

There is a "name" for the syndrome you are displaying here, again, I don't wish to be banned.

That comment could be a taken a number of ways ... I certainly hope it wasn't intended in the way I think that it might have been.

 

[cheri1122]

[QUOTE=layoutshooter;655630 I will not go into the rest of your post, you obviously have little background in this. The rest is best left unsaid as it could be construed as being degrading to you and I don't want to play that game.

There is a "name" for the syndrome you are displaying here, again, I don't wish to be banned.


A difference of opinion does not excuse that last statement, nor do I intend to let it go unanswered. You said it, you own it.
You owe me an explanation.

 

[letzrockexpress]

A difference of opinion does not excuse that last statement, nor do I intend to let it go unanswered. You said it, you own it.
You owe me an explanation.

Yeah, let's have it.

 

[cheri1122]

So, Layoutshooter: do you 'hit & run' when you're behind the wheel, too?

 

[tenntrucker]

So, Layoutshooter: do you 'hit & run' when you're behind the wheel, too?

And keep track of it......



sent from my Galaxy S3

 

[arkjarhead]

I can understand where there coming from after the murders and murder/suicides that have occurred at the hands of NFL players in recent history, and I'm about the biggest proponent of the 2nd Amendment out there.

Sent from my XT1058 using EO Forums mobile app

 

[cheri1122]

I do believe Mr Shooter is ignoring my request for an explanation of his comments. Bad idea.
Ironic, given that about 80% of his 28000+ [!] posts are about what everyone from public officials to the kid next door SHOULD DO! but when his own behavior is questioned? Silence.
Doubly ironic, in that a few years ago, someone posted negative stuff about him, [that probably wasn't even true], and he was all about SLANDER! and DEFAMATION OF CHARACTER!! and DAMAGE TO PROFESSIONAL REPUTATION!!! Total meltdown.
Now, the shoe's on the other foot, and he's got nothing to say for himself.
I'm not surprised - just amazed that he thinks it's ok to refuse to explain what he posted about me. [#292] It's not ok - it's smarmy. And cowardly.