Best Power Inverter and Aux Battery available for Sprinter

T270_Dreamin

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I currently have a Xantrex Prowatt 2000 and a Trojan 27-AGM Auxiliary Battery
but I will be selling the sprinter that it is currently installed in and repurchasing these items
or another brand similar. I was wondering if you guys had some thoughts on what works the best and is cost effective but still maintaining good quality. I paid $300 for the inverter and $250 for the battery originally back in 2014.

Power Inverter, Pure Sine Wave Inverter, Marine Inverter, PROwatt SW

27-AGM | Trojan Battery Company
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
It's hard to beat Xantrex, unless you want to go really high end, like Outback Power, Exeltech, Magnum Power, or something like that. For what we do, Xantrex is hands down the best bang for the buck.

As for the Trojan 27-AGM, that's a really good battery, but with a couple of caveats.

One is, you really don't want an AGM battery for the house battery unless your cranking battery is also an AGM battery. You can get away with that as long as you connect the AGM battery to a 3-stage charger at least once a week and ensure that it's properly charged, but mixing battery chemistries between cranking and house batteries is never a good idea. AGM and wet cell batteries (including the standard maintenance-free batteries) require different charging regimens (different currents, and the big one - difference charging voltages). If the alternator is charging the cranking battery, the voltage will always, always, always be too low to fully charge the AGM battery. Wet cells need between 13.8-14.1 volts to charge, while AGMs need 14.4 to 14.8. No matter how long you leave a 13.8-14.1 voltage on an AGM battery, it's simply not enough enough voltage (which is pressure) to stuff the current back into the battery.

The other caveat is, a group 27 battery is a little on the small side, at 77 Ah capacity, unless all you're going to do with it is run an Espar heater. If you're going to run inverter loads, a Group 31 battery at 100 amp hours is probably the minimum you'd want to go with. You don't want to discharge the house battery below 50%, otherwise the life of the battery is drastically reduced. At 77 amp hours, that means only about 38 amps can be drawn from the battery between getting it fully recharged (which, again, is a significant problem if you're mixing battery chemistries). Running an Espar and/or a fan, along with a laptop, you're going to draw about 5 amps an hour, so you'd want to fully recharge the house battery every 8 hours.
 
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T270_Dreamin

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
House battery is a Bosch AGM Blue top. Is there another model that I can get that would allow me to plug in a 9200 BTU coleman mach 8 cub ac or something with more watts, what would you consider the next step up from a Xantrex prowatt 2000? I'll keep that advice in mind when I purchase next battery, any other brands besides Trojan you like?

Looks like I found the one I need here for a decent price. Not sure what the pick up fee but this looks like a good price. Just have to decide on inverter for now.

Trojan 31-AGM 12V 100 AH Battery | The Solar Biz

And if you're in Missouri

Group 31 AGM Battery | Trojan 31-AGM Golf Cart Battery
 
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T270_Dreamin

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
You.need.a generator for any real ac unit. If you filled your cargo floor with batteries instead of freight it might work to run the coleman.


Good advice I pretty much expected that response was wondering if anyone had any tricks up their sleeve. I thought that the RV's used some larger inverter battery setups or they must plug int at campgrounds in the summer. Here it is in the dead of winter and we are talking about AC :astonished: gotta get the inverter and aux battery right regardless.

Checking this thread out currently. Looks like the sprinter camping crowd likes the high end stuff.

Mid-2015: best choice for charger/inverters? - Sprinter-Forum
 
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brokcanadian

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
1 at a time MIGHT be fine with the 1000 unless its (oven) not really a small one...lowest watts I saw on a quick Amazon search was 1200 so in that case no...i always buy the 2000 to cover everything including my small laser printer, IMO get a little more than you think you need

Its not budget, but i use 12v fridge only now, the 120v with inverter killed my batteries in a couple days in summer, also compressors like pure sine inverters

I've had no problems with cheaper brand name inverters, but I use all 12V stuff with the exception of short loads like the printer

BTW my first 2000w was a Champion for 99.00 that lasted 8 years, my replacement 169 dollar one is working well...why not keep your stuff you have? Can you really make that money extra selling it?
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
House battery is a Bosch AGM Blue top
I thought it as a Trojan 27.
what would you consider the next step up from a Xantrex prowatt 2000?
A higher wattage Xantrex. <snort>
If you want to step up in brands, although I don't know why you would, then it's, from the next step upward, Samlex, Statpower, Magnum Energy, Outback Power, Exeltech.
any other brands besides Trojan you like?
Concord Lifeline is the cream of the crop. Concord also makes the Sun Xtender, which is nearly identical to the Lifeline, except for the warranty, some minor internal differences, and the terminals. The Lifelines are more expensive not just because of the 5 year warranty, but because they are more "hardened" for marine and RV applications, whereas the Sun Xtenders are specifically designed for stationary, on- and off-grid applications.

Other good AGM brands are Odyssey, Werker, Universal Power, East Penn / Deka, and Discover Energy.

Rolls Surrette is the absolute top-of-the-line AGM battery, but they are just stoopid expensive and are designed mainly for off-grid installations. Most commonly they come as individual 2-volt cells, so you need 6 of them to make a 12-volt battery. And they weigh several hundred pounds each. They now make L16 batteries (generally the size known for floor scubbers), however. They have the $525 S6-460 AGM which is a 400 Ah battery and weighs in at 123 pounds, which is right in line with other L16 batteries. You need 2 of those for 12-volts.

Rolls also has a 2-volt model 2-YS-31PS cell that's 2,430 Ah and weighs 285 pounds, and costs only $1100.00. Need 6 of those, though. I had an aunt in Arizona who had 24 of those running a 48-volt off-the-grid house, charged with solar panels. It was awesome. But probably overkill for expediting.

Avoid Optima at all costs. They have always been problematic, but even more so now that the quality control is all over the place ever since they moved manufacturing to Mexico a few years ago.

Can't believe the price of this one... I think my max is around $500 budget and I can even look into used options on craigslist. Can I get by with a 1000 watt or do I need 2000? Planning to run toaster oven possibly and blender maybe a small fridge or something like that.

Magnum Energy MS2012 Inverter - Wholesale Solar
You get what you pay for. Magnum Energy, like most other high end inverters, are designed for industrial and critical (think ambulance) use. They are overkill for what we do. Then again, you'll never be disappointed with the best, as my grandfather used to say.

With a laser printer, you really need a pure sine wave inverter. Most laser printers won't work with modified sine wave inverters. My recommendation is still the Xantrex ProSine. 1500 Watts will probably be fine, if not then a 2000 will do. You really don't need dramatically more capability than you'll ever use. I use a POS Cobra 1500 Watt inverter.

If you plan on running high amp draw appliances, like a toaster oven, a microwave, fridge, even a blender, a rice cooker or a coffee maker, you want way more battery than you're considering. And you want 6-volt batteries in pairs rather than 12-volt batteries. 6-volt batteries can handle high amp draws better, and will have more reserve capacity than 12-volt batteries of the same Ah capacity. It's because 6-volt batteries have thicker and taller lead plates than 12-volt batteries do. Instead of a single 12-volt battery at 100 amp hours, you should be looking at pairs of 6-volt batteries totaling in the 400-600 amp hours range.

Because of the Peukert Effect (it's like driving faster gives you worse MPG), a 10 amp draw from a 100 Ah battery is the equivalent of drawing 11.57 amps, whereas the same 10 amp draw from a 600 Ah battery is the equivalent of drawing just 7.94 amps. A 10 amp draw turns a 100 Ah battery into a 86.45 Ah battery. A 10 amp draw from a 600 Ah battery turns the battery into a 755.70 Ah battery.

In addition to a decently-sized battery bank (200 Ah minimum), you really need a generator, as well. Not only to run the high amp loads, but to recharge the battery bank when you've been sitting. You can connect a proper 3-stage charger, designed for AGM batteries, and ensure the bank gets properly charged (assuming you don't have an AGM for the cranking battery).

They aren't AGM, but I have 4 of these batteries, for a total of 610 amp hours. The AGM J305s will run you about $450 each. A pair of them will give you 310 amp hours.

You should seriously consider getting a Xantrex Battery Monitor. Not only does it read your battery state of charge like a fuel gauge, and let you know when you're down to 50% Depth of Discharge (as well as account for the Peukert Effect), it'll really open your eyes as to just how much power you are drawing from your battery bank.

As for running an air conditioner (or an electric heater) off batteries, xiggi is right, you'll need to fill the van with batteries. About 2400 amp hours worth, at least.
 

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T270_Dreamin

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Turtle appreciate the detailed response. I think I'm going to stick with the same stuff I had last time for now and wait till I get the 170 extended to buy the high end stuff. The main reason I'm installing now is to just run espar and a toaster oven (posted specs below) My rice cooker is 505 watts and I have a mini foreman grill and mini blender I can add to the mix. Maybe I should give up on the idea of a toaster oven or find one that is less watts?
  • Voltage

    110 - 120 Volts

  • Wattage

    1800
What 6 volt batter would work here from the Trojan catalog?

Reliant AGM | Trojan Battery Company

What inverter could you suggest under $500 new or one under $1000 new that I might be able to pick up used for $400-600? I can search craigslist nationwide. I have a detroit trip planned this week and also California in early Jan so I might could find a used one on the road.
 

T270_Dreamin

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
1 at a time MIGHT be fine with the 1000 unless its (oven) not really a small one...lowest watts I saw on a quick Amazon search was 1200 so in that case no...i always buy the 2000 to cover everything including my small laser printer, IMO get a little more than you think you need

Its not budget, but i use 12v fridge only now, the 120v with inverter killed my batteries in a couple days in summer, also compressors like pure sine inverters

I've had no problems with cheaper brand name inverters, but I use all 12V stuff with the exception of short loads like the printer

BTW my first 2000w was a Champion for 99.00 that lasted 8 years, my replacement 169 dollar one is working well...why not keep your stuff you have? Can you really make that money extra selling it?


The guy buying the 140 Sprinter from me is liking the idea of having the power inverter but doesn't need the espar so I'm leaving the inverter and trojan house battery instead of deinstalling. He is paying me 500 extra for it so I can just repurchase the inverter and battery(s)

Turtle the House battery is a trojan 27 in the 140 I'm selling but I'm repurchasing batteries for the next install in the 158 Sprinter I drive. The battery under the hood is a Bosch Platinum Blue Top AGM battery that I got from pep boys.

The Xantrex Prosine 2000 watt inverter is over $2000 on amazon and doesn't look like the rating are that decent.
Amazon.com: Xantrex Prosine 2.0 Inverter/Charger with Remote Interface - 2000 Watts: Patio, Lawn & Garden

Might be good to just get another Xantrex PROwatt SW 2000 for $300-350 new or $200 used.

Here's a Samlex comparable to the Xantrex PROwatt 2000w
Amazon.com: Samlex 2000W Pure Sine Wave Inverter PST-2000-24: Car Electronics

This one looks like a machine. Kinda over priced for being used but I might could offer $600.
Go Power 3K Inverter

The 2000 watt model is way less.
Amazon.com: Go Power! GP-SW2000-12 2000-Watt Pure Sine Wave Inverter: Automotive

This guy has some deals up in Michigan might pay him a visit.
OFF GRID POWER INVERTER, INVERTER CHARGER, SOLAR PANELS FOR HOME CABIN

What a steal!! Just looked up on Amazon and its selling for $1040! Email sent.
1800 WATT SINE WAVE POWER INVERTER PROSINE
 
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brokcanadian

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I think it would be a weight and money saver to get a small propane BBQ, the deep cycles are heavy. Lots of European cook tops will run off diesel for even more weight savings.

Course if you're not getting heavy loads, doesn't matter so much...I've run 10 years on a cheapie 2000w inverter with a couple Walmart Maxx hybrid deep cycles charged off the alternator, they last 4-5 years total investment 300 US. It's been fine to power 12v fans, coffeemaker and George Forman grill, small laser printer. How often do you sit? You could skip the batteries and run off the alternator for that matter...

I just prefer cooking with fire I guess, appliances are a high draw and slow way to cook...

Turtles posts are always a good read though
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
1800 Watts divided by 12 volts is a 150 amp draw, plus another 10% lost in the inverter process (so, 165 amps). That's a serious amp draw. As the Peukert spreadsheet I posted shows, that will completely drain a brand new, freshly charged 100 Ah battery in .29 hour (17.4 minutes). That's like the MPG you'll get while driving the van about 900 MPH.

Batteries are designed for specific applications, and trying to use a battery for which is was not designed is a bad idea. Any kind of resistive heat appliance should be run off a generator and not off batteries, unless you get batteries specifically designed for resistive heat applications (think Rolls Surrette 2-volt battery banks at a minimum of 48-volts). You can get by with the high amp draw of a microwave, because it's only running for a few minutes, but that kind of a draw still puts a lot of stress on the internals of the battery. The chemical reactions can barely keep up and results in an early death of the battery.

I don't even run a rice cooker, because even at 505 Watts, it's too high of an amp draw for 10 minutes per one cup of uncooked rice. And I've got a battery bank that can actually handle it.

Pulling 1800 Watts, you'd really need a 3300 Ah battery bank before the Peukert Effect evens out to where that high of a draw becomes efficient.

Turtle the House battery is a trojan 27 in the 140 I'm selling but I'm repurchasing batteries for the next install in the 158 Sprinter I drive. The battery under the hood is a Bosch Platinum Blue Top AGM battery that I got from pep boys.
Ah, OK. The Bosch blue top, assuming you purchased it here and not in Europe or Australia, was manufactured either by ABI Malaysia or, more likely, Johnson Controls. It's pretty much the same as the Sears Diehard Platinum AGM battery. A pretty decent battery.

Any of the Trojan Reliant AGM batteries will work great. For 6-volts, you have the T105-AGM (217 Ah), the J305-AGM (329 Ah) or the L16-AGM (370 Ah) are your choices. Bigger is always better for what we do, because the Peukert Effect means regardless of the draw, the bigger battery doesn't have to work as hard as a smaller battery. I have the J305E-AC (305 Ah, again, wet cell, not AGM), but I would have the L16s if the space inside my bunk (when the lid is closed) was juuuuust half an inch taller. And I'd have four of them.
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Would two of these work? More along the lines of my budget.
I don't know. You have Trojan T105s and Crown CR150s listed in your post. Two of the T105s would work, at 217 Ah, as long as 108 amps (50% DoD) between fully charging is enough. Four of those would be better for, it works seem, what all you want to do with them.

A couple of the crown CR-235 batteries is 225 Ah, two of the CR-205s is 205 Ah. Neither of those Crown batteries are AGM, though. Still, $100.00 each (when you buy 6) plus probably $12 or $18 each core charge, is a good price. Those are golf cart batteries, same footprint as the T105s.
 
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T270_Dreamin

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Was referencing the Trojan Batteries the crown post was just a joke in the ad it said the seller delivered for a $1 a mile. :rolleyes::D
4 of those is going to get pricey at a grand and take up more space.
Would it be ok to fab up a metal cage and mount then under the van, I just don't want them in my cargo space. Most van/rv guys have told me that is not a good idea. I'm one of those guys that likes maximum cargo area space. I use a twin mattress that goes up against the wheel well when storing and try not to carry much extra stuff. The oven will probably go up high mounting off the partition somewhere if I do that. I like those L16's but they just seem too tall! Maybe I could compromise and just get 3 batteries. I suppose I could move this stuff over to the planned 170 extended Sprinter if I end up getting that next summer or 2018.

Maybe I could go with two of the Trojan Reliant™ J305-AGM 310 AH 6 Volt instead. They seem like the next step up between the T-105 and L16's. Would it be ok to buy these batteries used or do you recommend going new with warranty?

Leaning towards this inverter, Amazon.com: Xantrex Technologies 1800PS 1800 Watt - 2900 Watt Prosine Power Inverter (806-1800): Patio, Lawn & Garden found one for $300. The guy has two in Atlanta if you want the other one check out the post above. He is texting me pics right now.
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
If you mount them outside, in addition to the battery monitor, you'll need to get the temperature sensor for the monitor, as the charge and discharge rate, as well as available amp hours, is highly temperature dependent. I have mine under the bunk, which also contains duct work for the Espar, so it can get heated in there, and the temp sensor ensures accurate readouts on the gauge. When I'm sleeping, of course, the bunk is closed, and those batteries will get up to around 90° or more sometimes, but the inverter is generally off when I'm sleeping. When I'm on the computer or something and not sleeping, I'll lift the bunk lid to keep the batteries at an optimal 77° temperature.
I'm one of those guys that likes maximum cargo area space.
I'm one of those guys who likes to sleep while loaded if necessary. I have a permanent bunk, and storage underneath for clothes, batteries, etc. There's always a tradeoff between cargo space and creature comforts. You can probably put them near the cab area, along the sidewalls. Protected with some kind of barrier so freight doesn't hit them.

Having the batteries inside means they will stay closer to the optimal operating temperature and thus will have a longer life. There's nothing inherently bad about having batteries inside the van, especially if they are AGM batteries. If you have wet cell batteries, you want them sitting inside battery boxes, or have plenty of acid-absorbing battery mat underneath them to catch and spills that might occur during charging. In any case, you want them secured so they won't move at all. If they move you'll stress and maybe even crack the terminals, connectors, etc.

I like those L16's but they just seem too tall!
Unless vertical space is a limiter, like with my bunk, the taller the batteries the more reserve capacity you're gonna get. Those high end 2-volt cells are generally between 30-40 inches tall. The J305 is a good compromise, though.
I could compromise and just get 3 batteries
I don't think I'd recommend three 6-volt batteries. :D
 

T270_Dreamin

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I really like the price of these DEKA batteries I could get more of them.

Shop Deka 6-Volt 448-Amp Golf Cart Battery at Lowes.com

Looks like a good read comparing the two brands.
Battery Replacement time - Trojan or Deka?

Also another brand worth looking into is lifeline
http://lifelinebatteries.com/products/marine-batteries/gpl-6ct/

So you think I should go with 4 or 2? What about just getting two L-16's since vertical space in a high roof sprinter isn't a issue. I sleep on top of the freight with a 9" thick mattress I don't compromise in that department or sometimes across the two front seats I know it sounds crazy but I've been fully loaded before on 1600 mile trips and need a good 5 hour nap.

This looks like another decent inverter looking into if I could find a used one.
http://invertersrus.com/product/thor-thpw3000/
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I really like the price of these DEKA batteries I could get more of them.

Shop Deka 6-Volt 448-Amp Golf Cart Battery at Lowes.com
While I like and shop at Lowes a lot, they should be viciously paddled for calling that (and most of their batteries) a 448 "amp" battery, since that's the marine cranking amp (32 degrees) and not amp hours. It is a 215 amp hour battery.
Looks like a good read comparing the two brands.
Battery Replacement time - Trojan or Deka?
I didn't read it all, but I skimmed it. I'm a Deka fan, but more for AGM and industrial batteries, like forklift batteries. For wet cells, Trojans really can't be beat in a bang-for-your-buck deal.
So you think I should go with 4 or 2? What about just getting two L-16's since vertical space in a high roof sprinter isn't a issue.
I think you should go for how ever many amp hours you require between fully charging the batteries. Whether that's 2, 4, or whatever. Then look at available space. Two L16s may make far more sense than four combined batteries of the same Ah capacity. A single pair of batteries will certainly be cheaper as far as cables and lugs are concerned. If you use 2/0 cable, the lugs and cable can get pricey ($9 a lug). Really, really pricey if you use 4/0 cable ($12 a lug).

You sleep ON TOP of the freight? I've heard rumors of people doing that. I don't think I'd like people sleeping on top of my freight.
 

T270_Dreamin

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
3000 Watt PURE SINE Inverter (Still in Box) too bad I'm not in CT. I wish Xantrex had a 3000 watt offering.

I really like the dimensions of the gpl-6ct lifeline battery $350 each is getting up there though.
Will have to shop around, prices seem to be all over from distributor to distributor. I'm sure these RV people spend thousands getting the right set up. Seems like you could spend $5000+ on inverter and battery if you wanted.

Here is some good info/specs on deka agm batteries. Let me know what you think on these compared to the lifeline and Trojan. Definitely going with AGM.
Deka AGM Batteries - Miami FL

Looks like Deka only has one 6 volt agm offering coming in at about $240 each pretty much same price as the Trojan T105-AGM
Deka 8AGC2 (8AGC2M) AGM Battery

So far I like the idea of two LIFELINE gpl-6ct batteries but still factoring all options.

Only when it's safe I do, if its a hard surface and flat 9inches of foam between me and freight is a safe protection factor/barrier.
 
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