another Panther policy???

[Steady Eddie]

>Okay Eddie, I am trying to follow your logic. Is it your
>position that you don't turn down any run because you are
>basing your revenue on a monthly total against monthly
>expense? If that is the case, you might have a problem if
>you extend yourself too many times during the month. If you
>would, please fill me in on your logic. I am always trying
>to see the picture from a different perspective and would
>appreciate any new ways to view the canvas.
>
>

No, Base on profit run to run.

The logic is simple. Treat every run like that is the only run you will have. Adjust your expenses to off set low revenue. Take as many runs that is offered. Keep yourself in the freight lanes as much as posible. I asure you I have no problems with the way I run. I am making more money than I ever have in the past.

Look, I am not trying to get anyone to operate the way I do. Everyone has different needs and cost. Run the way you want. I was just passing on the way I see it. I hate taking runs that I have to deadhead lets say 85 miles for a paid run of 35 miles. But I have taken them just the same. Next run was 25 mile deadhead with 345 paid run. Next after that 1700 mile run @ 1.05 per mile + FSC. This will not happen like this every time, but for me it is working.

Try for one month.
Take all loads that come your way.
Be nice to your dispatchers
control your cost
keep yourself in the freight lanes
have fun and enjoy being out there

You will see a differance!


Steady

You're not dead, you're electroencephalographically challenged.

 

[davekc]

I don’t want to bust your chops but I am struggling to find your “simple logic”
I must be in the running for DA of the month because I can’t figure out this logic no matter how I flip the numbers around. I again will use your example for figuring.
This will benefit new folks in different ways that runs are looked at.

You stated; “based on profit run to run”

Ok, if you took a run out west that went 1000 miles, you would likely have to return the same distance to obtain freight for the next run. Iowa to say Idaho would be a good example.

At .77 per mile, total is $770.00 plus .15 % FSC for a total of $150
Total run pay is $920
Let us assume you drove 0 miles to pick it up. I am not even factoring that in.
Let us also figure .20 cents per mile empty move back. This you may or may not get.
Add another $200

Total trip pay is $1120
2000 miles @ $1120 =.56 per mile for entire load.

Our resident van owners are saying it costs .45 to .48 cents a mile to operate.
Taking the low number, .56 minus .45 = .11

.11 x 2000 = $220 With gas at $3.00 per gallon, this number would be less unless the FSC is higher. This is also factoring no deadhead to retrieve the load.

Total completion of run is 3.5 to 4 days depending on delivery times and miles run per day. At four days that is $55.00 per day. It would take awhile to recover this loss.
Refusing that run and just running a 300 miler a day would net you a higher average.
300 miles @ .77 +.15 FSC = $276 x 4 days = $1104
$1104 on four days is $276 average
1200 miles @.45 cents per mile operating cost is $540
$1104 minus operating costs is $564
In my world, $564 over an equal period of time is better than $220



The other item I am confused with.
I am using your quotes

"Keep yourself in the freight lanes as much as posible. I asure you I have no problems with the way I run. I am making more money than I eve"
And

"keep yourself in the freight lanes"

I am so confused. If you are accepting every load, how do you stay in the freight lanes?



You are correct, we have two totally different ways of operating.
I do think it is very educational to new folks to see how run selection is viewed. It would be great if someone had figures that would explain how your system worked. You state it is working for you and that is great.
Just trying to understand it.


Davekc
owner
21 years

 

[slopoke]

>I did two runs that I was paid for fewer miles than the load
>offer was for. Called driver settlement and left message
>regarding the errors.

Those aren't errors. There are several different programs that shippers use to figure the miles. ONe of them, Rand McNally, finds the shortest distance and they pay according to that. This may be a route that no one would actually drive because its over 2 lane highways instead of interstates. Caterpillar loads are always pay less than actual driven miles. A dispatcher told me they are trying to get customers away from Rand McNally.

 

[teacel]

Slopoke is very close to being on target with his or her answer. This thread deviated from the original so may I attempt to refresh and apply my $10 bucks worth.

After reading this thread in its entirety (and its long) I see no one has really touched on why this is happening.

All companies have and use software either a stand alone program or one integrated with a mileage program that calculates the mileage for every entry. Within most software programs built to do this… First let me say, all software programs are built to track mileage in many different ways, but 99.9% of the people in the freight moving business calculate the mile in a direct line, per se the way the crow flies, and bill using the zip code method. Meaning! You the driver, (in most cases the company too), get paid miles from the origin zip code to the destination zip code, not from address-to-address, or door-to-door. Within the software programs built to calculate the mileage most have an option button allowing each company to add a percentage of extra miles to the number. Most use 10% or 15% depending on the terrain. For a company to change that percentage each time a driver is dispatched to an area is not going to happen. So, when a job is dispatched and the trip is in a direct line the mileage is likely to be more accurate than if trips have lots of curves and hilly roads.

As for all the different ways to operate ones business I am going to reserve my thoughts for now. Hope this helps you understand the mileage thing gexcel500? No it’s not something else to worry about. Simply get a program that will calculate the mileage more accurately (I would suggest PC Miler, or MS Streets and Trips, but there are more) than in a straight line, and do the math before accepting a load. This will give you knowledge of how many miles the trip actually is, thus giving you some bargaining power with the company you are leased on with.

 

[LDB]

>but 99.9% of the people in the freight moving business
>calculate the mile in a direct line, per se the way the crow
>flies, and bill using the zip code method. Meaning! You the
>driver, (in most cases the company too), get paid miles from
>the origin zip code to the destination zip code, not from
>address-to-address, or door-to-door.

I'm going to play devil's advocate. The crow's flight method isn't how runs are calculated or Cadillac, MI to Green Bay, WI would be about a 150 mile trip instead of the 475 mile trip it really is. Brownsville to Miami would be around 1000 instead of 1600. Where they are getting people is by using city to city miles via shortest route versus at least zip to zip via practical route if not door to door. Once in a while the driver comes out to the good but that's maybe once for ever two or three dozen runs. The rest short the driver several to a lot of miles.

Leo Bricker
OOIDA 677319
truck 4958
73's K5LDB
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[RichM]

Years ago Roberts Express utilized HHG (Household Goods Miles) which was the absolute shortest way. You would be given a 300 mile trip and going by the suggested routing it would sometimes be as much as 60 miles more. Well eventually a minor rebellion took place. People would stop at the paid miles and refuse to go any more until additonal pay was generated. Eventually after shipments to places like GM/Ford were delayed the company changed over to Rand Mcnally which gave a more practical mileage and the the company picked up additional revenue.
This thing with Panther I think is illegal.If they offer you a trip with X amount of miles and X amount of pay,that should be the pay.

 

[davekc]

I would agree with Rich if it was a forced dispatch or a employee situation.
That is why I say to review the load prior to accepting it. If the milage is off, request a adjustment at that time or simply refuse the run. We have only had a few occassions were the milage was off. In those cases they made the adjustment. A couple requests were rejected and we didn't run them. Most are based on PC miler.

To me it is no different than when I bid on other loads not related to Panther. If they are calculated incorrectly or too cheap, I wouldn't run those either.
In todays environment, one can't really afford to be running alot of free miles.


Davekc

 

[samison4248]

Good way to solve that issue is to us the route they give you and just deliver it late. Sooner or later Panther will get the message. All drivers can't be left go. Oh better yet go with a company that uses the Practical miles method

 

[Fkatz]

Inanswer to all the question is
IS THE COMPANY ACTUALLY USING HOUSEHOLD MOVERS GUIDE?.

THIS IS WERE THE PROBLEM MAINLY LIES. HHG IS CITY LIMIT TO CITY LIMIT SHORTEST ROUTE POSSIBLE, THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE USING.

fRANK

 

[jaminjim]

After rereading the first post, If I understood correctly, the problem here was that he was paid less miles than what the load offer said. We have been on runs that we had to run more miles because of HHG miles, but only a few times did they try to pay less than the load offer. That was because of hazmat routing, and when called to there attention followed with a note attached to the pro bill we were taken care of.

 

[guest]

What I run into more often are minor mileage discrepancies, like load offer says 387 miles and my Magellan says it's 407 miles. One solution is to ask the dispatcher to run the mileage using a different program than the one the offer was based upon. The dispatchers all have access to multiple mileage calculators. If two mileage calculators say 387 miles and my Magellan says 407 miles I figure that the dispatcher has made an effort to meet me halfway and I get on the road and don't think about it too much after that. The name of the game, in my view, with dispatchers is mutual fairness and respect. If they are making an effort to be fair and respectful toward me generally, I can overlook some mileage discrepancies. If I thought they were yanking my chain, I could get very picky about everything. I am happy with my carrier's approach and feel that fairness and respect drive their approach to driver relations. It sounds to me like Panther may have a fairness/respect issue (at least with respect to some drivers) that is simply manifesting itself in the form of this mileage thing.

Then again, they may have just switched over to the CP2005 mapping software (Crow Pro 2005).

One thing I don't get, though, in reading the posts above is the load offer also has the load pay. If the load pay is not being monkeyed with, I wouldn't be THAT upset about extra miles. As I noted above, my Magellan tells me its opinion about the distance. If I got a load offer of 500 miles for $600 and the Magellan said it was 650 miles I would determine whether a 650 mile load was worth $600 to me. I wouldn't consider the 500 mile number they provided to be carved in stone. The $600 would, however, be carved in stone as far as I was concerned.

As far as getting lawyers involved, the dispatchers are your friends, they are your pipeline to business. They should be treated like your customers. Be nice to them. Have a cooperative attitude. It pays off. Any time I get a lousy load offer and turn it down I tell them to call me back if they can't get it covered. You never know, if they call you back the load may pay a little more. If you truly think your dispatchers are screwing you around, change carriers.

 

[BigDiesel]

I dont think if you are running a business and someone is basically stealing from you by not paying you for the actual miles driven you should just walk away. You should persue them in court to get the money that you are owed. This post started out with info about these dispatchers or the company dieceving the drivers not about them making an honest mistake.

 

[jaminjim]

I never heard of a carrier paying for miles driven.

 

[bigguy1001]

Big Diesel, earlier in this thread you said you were glad you were "going with Con-Way Now". Implying you either haven't started yet or just started. Yet after 10 days you have come to the conclusion they are more honest that Panther. I contend you don't really know much about either company. With all due respect to my friends over at Conway. There are hundreds of satisfied drivers at Panther. I hope you enjoy your day!

 

[BigDiesel]

Im just going by the many post on here about pantherII. I have learned one thing on this site, you learn which companies are the best by not hearing to much about them. You have a good day and also a good time trying to get whats owed you

 

[ATeam]

> I never heard of a carrier paying for miles driven.

FedEx CC has paid us for miles driven at times. It's happened that we've been routed off route by a long construction detour or HAZMAT route that did not show up in the original routing. When that happens, and if it is a significant amount, we ask dispatch to adjust the miles and pay in our favor. This is not a frequent occurance but it is our experience that FedEx CC works with us in a positive way if a significant miles situation arises.

When we've compared the miles quoted in the offer to the miles shown on our computer mapping program, and the miles on the odomoter at the end of the run, the difference was so slight that we stopped worrying about it. I believe (though I may be wrong) FedEx CC uses PC Miler to calculate routing and the calculation is made door to door, not zip code to zip code. At least that's how it's checked out on our odometer; door to door reality is pretty close to what is quoted in the offer (that's not wrong, it what the odometer says).

 

[scootr68]

The only way the loaded miles would change on a load sent to you is if by some chance the customer called back and changed the "responsible paying party". For instance there could be as many as three different customers with three different contracts and mileage programs. Say a third party calls in the load and is responsible for payment. They are on PCMiler 15. The load is sent out. Twenty mins later that 3rd party calls back and says "we made a mistake,the freight is now going collect. That in turn causes the load to fall under the consignee's contract which happens to use HHG miles. The problem then is that neither the dispatcher nor driver are aware of this. Every load sent on the QC can be brought back up to see the mileage that was offered at the time the load was sent. Solution is to send in an addendum with the discrepency. This has been explained to me in detail.

 

[BigDiesel]

If you read the post about Scamther 2 you will see that this person was told by scamther 2 he needs to double check to make sure the milage quoted was the actual milage driven and thats WRONG! Id get a lawyer and sue them for breech of contract, verbal and other wise. I need to stress this again that you are contracted by a carrier and not an employee!

 

[tec1959]

Hello you know company's do their routing by the way the crow fly's,And they let their contractors O/O's go any way they want.Contractors can go the fastest way,The shortest way or the way they want.The only way company's change the pay for routing is when you carry a hazmat load.....But it never hurts to ask for more pay....

 

[scootr68]

>If you read the post about Scamther 2 you will see that this
>person was told by scamther 2 he needs to double check to
>make sure the milage quoted was the actual milage driven and
>thats WRONG! Id get a lawyer and sue them for breech of
>contract, verbal and other wise. I need to stress this again
>that you are contracted by a carrier and not an employee!


You sound awfully sue happy especially when you're not educated in the wording of the contract or the exact situation at hand. Panther's a good outfit...maybe you should stay away from them and just go with someone else. More money for the rest of us!