Another Brilliant Panther Move
- Thread starter hondaking38
- Start date
mjolnir131
Veteran Expediter
FYI a true forced dispatch is/would be your contracts is canceled if you turned down one load
Its based on the last 60 days I was told tonight. Most of the less than profitable loads don't even pay our rate and don't count anyway. Our rate is $1.65 in our refer unit plus fsc.
The bottom line is if you don't want the load don't take it. If you don't like the way Panther does business you have a choice to stay or leave.
The bottom line is if you don't want the load don't take it. If you don't like the way Panther does business you have a choice to stay or leave.
Then do us a favor and quit then. If they are so bad leave, and quit crying about things. Sorry you can't handle that things went back to 45% being loaded on your com data card. You should have worked at Roberts Express, when if you turned down two loads in a row you was placed out of service for it until the 2nd load was covered. Then you had to talk management to be put back in service. You are upset about having to have 67% or better. Then you call people names and even call them an a**hole because they share things that you don't want to hear. Sounds to me like you have some growing up to do.
Before you stay things like that you need to back up what your saying. I sat and watched agents at Panther put a truck on a load that Panther only made $8.00 on so they could keep that truck moving with income and service the customer. When I was at Roberts Express/ FedEx Custom Critical I seen the same thing their. When things change you have to give it time 1st. I worked at FedEx Custom Critical for years only getting 45% loaded on the Com Card. I had trucks on with TST that had com cards that was for fuel and oil only. You was able to get 150 gallons of fuel every 24 hrs and one gallon of oil.
The point im making is be happy they even give you any money to run on. Not every company gives you fuel money to run on.
Good post Joe, We did the same thing, our drivers know what loads to take and what not to take. Nothing really has changed, all of our trucks are over 90% and we are turning down loads that don't pay our rate. Some should be glad Panther don't count loads that are less than your rate like other carriers do.
moose
Veteran Expediter
Lets challenge that statements ,just for the sake of argument.
Forced dispatch was a main issue with that law suit by the Feds O/O asking the court to recognize them as employee ,a few years back.
a few good lawyers and one judge have agreed that a forced dispatch is an ongoing event , in which the employee is penalize, by any way, for not doing his job.
at any case ,i can't care less ,as you will not find me doing business for long with a business partner that treat my business like he own it .
we all get way to mach babysitting by our Government ,
adding an over regulated carrier to the mix is in no-one best interest .
it's very simple , if you cannot make money moving that freight - don't move it .
if you don't like to take this load for any rezone ,or no rezone at all - don't take it.
if you are penalize by your carrier , you need to go elsewhere .
if you are penalize by your carrier , you are being forced to be dispatch ,and you need to look elsewhere .
Moose.
After reading the replies to this thread, I found myself wondering why all the negative replies to the original post were from fleet owners, and most of the positive replies came from one vehicle o/o's. Could it be the fleet owners get preference with load offers?
aileron
Expert Expediter
I think that is highly unlikely. I wish it was the case lol. I would have 20 trucks on with them if it was.
mjolnir131
Veteran Expediter
or it could be and more like so that it's divided along the lines of knowing what is a big deal and what makes money and what does not . to get to the point of managing more than one truck takes a little more adaptability,to be successful anyways, and better analytical skills than is needed to run one truck,and no i don't have a fleet ...yet
Tempest
Seasoned Expediter
I have a fleet. I have no special treatment based on that fact. I believe we get the loads we do because we dont cherry pick. We run loads that are profitable. Our definition of profitable may be much different than everyone else. That take care of the owner side of the issue.
Now, I am a driver. I drive one of my brothers trucks on a 60/40 split. I do this because the money made from my fleet maintains and grows my fleet. I take none of the money for my fleet to pay my personal bills. That will come later when I feel we are prepared to handle any financial set back that can and will present themselves. Alot of weeks money from this truck is used to back up the fleet.
Because I am a driver I dont feel I get any special treatment. I would like to think my numbers get me the loads I get. Because I am a driver, I am glad Panther has decided to use numbers over board position becuase my numbers, which I have worked very hard to keep, will get me loaded faster.
So, Is that a negative response or a positive one? Does it really matter? I am doing what I love and making money. Perhaps not as much money as in the past, but enough to achieve my goals.
Now, I am a driver. I drive one of my brothers trucks on a 60/40 split. I do this because the money made from my fleet maintains and grows my fleet. I take none of the money for my fleet to pay my personal bills. That will come later when I feel we are prepared to handle any financial set back that can and will present themselves. Alot of weeks money from this truck is used to back up the fleet.
Because I am a driver I dont feel I get any special treatment. I would like to think my numbers get me the loads I get. Because I am a driver, I am glad Panther has decided to use numbers over board position becuase my numbers, which I have worked very hard to keep, will get me loaded faster.
So, Is that a negative response or a positive one? Does it really matter? I am doing what I love and making money. Perhaps not as much money as in the past, but enough to achieve my goals.
Not exactly,I had my percentage drop as much as 10% for one load turned down and always atleast 5% subtracted per load turned down.It also depends on how many loads your offered during the week and thruout the 30 days.It seems with the fuzzy math going on and no clear rules and figures on exactly what you will be penalized in percentages. Also what percentage it will climb by doing a load.I usually only climb 1-2% per load accepeted and at that rate it would be impossible to keep a 50% average,let alone a 67%.If this is the new system being used then they need to revamp the loads that can be turned down,like more than half dead head per loaded mile and using your truck as a storage facility.
mjolnir131
Veteran Expediter
The only fuzzy math is if you don't understand straight percentages.at 18 loads in the last 30 one turn down would been .05555 on ad nit-um rounded to a fixed percent of 6. bump it up to 20 a month drops that to 5% 19 would be close enough to drop it to 5% but they still might round up which would still be 6 now to get a 67% at the 18 offer level you would need to turn down 6 loads now this does explain why people are complaining they only have had 12 runs a month maybe they turned down 6 or them. now those 18 only count if they are at your contracted rate.So if your contracted rate is 1.35 or 1.20 you can turn down 1.10 or 1.15 loads all day and it will not effect your score.(note i will run a 1.10 load if the FSC is high enough)
Have you ever analyzed a mini? under 74 miles is 99 bucks actually 74 would be 99.9 at 1.35 bump that to 82 for the 1.20 people.At 101 dead head miles you start collecting .50 a mile so 173 miles is the most you can drive and not start making more money even if your getting a crappy 9 MPG that not 20 gallons of fuel so your getting 60 bucks plus any FSC so for 3 hours worth of work you have paid most if not all of your fix cost of the truck for that day.add 60 miles of dead head to the equation and you have added an hour and now hit nearly 100 bucks which would cover just about everybody's fixed for the day and 6 hours left to make another load so you score a bigger profit.
This is simple really it is. if you can't get your mind around it maybe the expedite market has evolved past you. if so your left with one of two choices get more flexible in your thinking or get out
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
While I am not at Panther, I have observed similar at my carrier. I was sitting in Dispatch when a call came in about a load that needed to be moved and there was only $XXX.XX amount of money in the load - basically at an LTL rate. I know this beyond a doubt, because the call was answered on speakerphone, so I heard the entire conversation - both sides.
There were a couple of our drivers sitting where the load was coming out of, one of which really needed to go home for some reason (which was where the load was going to) - this was flagged in the computer. He was called first by Dispatch and was offered the load. He attempted to "bargain up" the dispatcher - after repeatedly being told there just wasn't any money in it for the dispatcher to do so. The conversation ended with the o/o once again telling the dispatcher: "Well, I'll run it for $X.XX per mile .... you think about it and let me know ....."
Dispatcher calls the next guy and explains the entire situation to him (how much they have to move the load, pay, etc.) and asks the guy if he will run it - the answer: "Sure, I'll cover it for you - but after I do, get me a good one" ..... to which the dispatcher replied that he would make every effort he could to do so. It was a sincere commitment on the part of the dispatcher, who I know to be a good guy, to do exactly that.
The amounts being offered to the o/o's in both cases above were (at least) 90% of the revenue my carrier would receive for the load. Either o/o could have run the load for a fuel cost of less than 30% of total revenue (possibly as little as 20% or 25%) .... and still put hundreds of dollars in their pocket. And the one who really needed to "get home" turned it down .....
I don't know whether his holding out paid off or not .... but it's entirely possible that he could have had to deadhead home (over 1,000 miles) on his own dime ......
Anyways, which one of the two do you figure is Dispatch's "go to guy" ?
As I read this I couldn't help thinking....
Hmmm..
Imagine a world where..
Ok, the carrier accepts the load, even though there's absolutely positively only $x in it, even though it's an expedite load at an LTL rate. Not sure why an expedite company would agree to that in the first place, other than to help offset *their own* operating costs, however little.
Remember that the carriers' costs will be offset, no matter how unprofitable a load might be to the OO, since the carriers are already on the hook for their building, staff, utilities, load boards, etc., no matter how many or how few loads they may 'win'. So even at 10%, or even 2%, it is something towards their bottom line.
For the OO however, the same cannot be said, because on top of the lease, insurance, and qualcomm, etc., there are costs directly associated with each individual load, ie the fuel & tolls.
Now, I'm not saying the driver should or shouldn't have taken that load, nor that the guy trying to get home may have ended up kicking himself in the end, nor whether the driver ended up in a better place and got a cooked goose on the other end, nor whether the dispatcher actually remembered to reward him as promised, nor whether that driver ends up getting all the good calls now that he's a 'go to guy'... because I simply don't have the answers, and I think the way things are, just stinks.
But.. wouldn't it be interesting if the carriers took such loads.. and alllllllllll the OOs and drivers said, sorry can't do.. carriers then have to post the loads to the outside, at which time the outside carriers also can't do, and in the end carriers who agreed to take those dogs in the first place, are the ones who have to take the loss on their own bottom line?.... I wonder how many times that might happen before they'd discover they need to actually book a fair price, or not book it at all?
And.. wouldn't it be interesting even more if the carrier said NO, to whoever offered such a dog rate, and so did all the other carriers.. and it went all the way back to the person paying? I guess eventually it would come to be that the loads wouldn't get moved unless and until they were priced such that all the players involved could operate profitably.
As much as we OOs and drivers must face the reality of whether it's feasible to keep our trucks running right now, so must the carriers face reality. If they need to start taking expedite loads for LTL prices because even at 10%, at least it's something towards this month's hydro bill, then perhaps they should turn out the lights.
whitewolf
Seasoned Expediter
Years ago when somebody told me the drivers are stupid I always said is not possible...now I can see they were right... What do you think is gonna be next step at Panther??? every driver will have 100% acceptance and is gonna be the same story no freight...I can't wait to see every driver in this country losing his house and after that maybe you wake up..but is gonna be to late
mjolnir131
Veteran Expediter
The only stupid drivers are the ones who think like employees and are not taking investment in the business world,they are easy to spot they use terms like unfair allot and blame a carrier when things get ugly(when it's usually the market we are in)
Expediting is a dynamic business.when you get rigid and refuse to roll with the punches it's time to move on either to a different carrier ,hard to find one who's not offering above 1.12 a mile for a ST now. contracts are two way street your agreeing to take X amount just like panther is agreeing to try and get you that amount in this case usually 1.20 or 1.35 and they still let you turn down 1/3 of those offers after you agreed to take them.
Somebody has or use to have in there signature the quote "you can make money or you can make excuses,but not both" If your having to make excuses and try and justify turning down 1/3 of all rate loads you get ... your not making money,if by some magic formula you are making money doing that then your obviously turning down loads that would be almost pure profit.so your now back to making excuses.
I don't understand what the big deal is and why it's so hard to grasp. A week from now the market will be different then it is now and different a week from that, and that is what you need to concentrate on how to cope with the changes not what's fair or not
Expediting is a dynamic business.when you get rigid and refuse to roll with the punches it's time to move on either to a different carrier ,hard to find one who's not offering above 1.12 a mile for a ST now. contracts are two way street your agreeing to take X amount just like panther is agreeing to try and get you that amount in this case usually 1.20 or 1.35 and they still let you turn down 1/3 of those offers after you agreed to take them.
Somebody has or use to have in there signature the quote "you can make money or you can make excuses,but not both" If your having to make excuses and try and justify turning down 1/3 of all rate loads you get ... your not making money,if by some magic formula you are making money doing that then your obviously turning down loads that would be almost pure profit.so your now back to making excuses.
I don't understand what the big deal is and why it's so hard to grasp. A week from now the market will be different then it is now and different a week from that, and that is what you need to concentrate on how to cope with the changes not what's fair or not