An opinion on the Trayvon Martin case
- Thread starter AMonger
- Start date
Umm....driver wearing a hoodie and in a windowless van? Could be considered suspicious.
When in training about stopping shoplifting when in retail we learned that one of the first "indicators" of people who were out to no good was dressing in a manner that did not fit the venue or weather.
Not saying that is right in this case, I have NO idea and likely ever will. I do know it was almost always right in a retail setting.
Not saying that is right in this case, I have NO idea and likely ever will. I do know it was almost always right in a retail setting.
Well, Zimmerman has a white father and an Hispanic mother. In Florida, Hispanic is as likely to mean Dominican or Puerto Rican or Guatemalan or Peruvian, or even Cuban, as it does Mexican.
It's really hard to know what level of racism, if any, played in this. Zimmerman might not be racist at all, but he may have been on that night, and other nights, with his profiling. In that gated community there had been several recent break-ins, most or all apparently by blacks. Zimmerman saw an unfamiliar young black male in the neighborhood and made the wrong assumption, and then possibly got carried away. It was noted that Zimmerman had made upwards of 45 recent 911 calls reporting suspicious black men in the area, no calls reporting whites, and apparently none of the 45 were captured by police. In Zimmerman's 911 call to police, as dispatchers told him not to pursue to the black male, Zimmerman stated, "They always get away."
If Trayvon Martin was white, would he have been "suspicious" in Zimmerman's mind?
To believe Zimmerman’s scenario, you have to believe that Trayvon, an unarmed boy, a boy so thin that people called him "Slimm," a boy whose mother said that he had not had a fight since he was a preschooler, chose that night and that man to attack. You have to believe that Trayvon chose to attack a man who outweighed him by 100 pounds and was wearing his gun in a holster. You have to believe that Trayvon chose to attack even though he was less than a hundred yards from his father's home.
This is certainly possible, but hardly sounds plausible or very probable.
The key is to determine who was standing his ground and defending himself: the boy with the candy on his way back home to catch the second half of the NBA ALL Star Game, or the man with the gun who pursued, tracked down and confronted the teen, telling him, "You're not supposed to be here."
Incidentally, one of the rules of Neighborhood Watch is that you do not pursue anyone. Another rule is that you must be unarmed. The job is to observe and report, not to play cop. Zimmerman was not part of any officially registered Neighborhood Watch program.
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paullud
Veteran Expediter
There seems to be more information coming out about Martin like the image of him being a little kid is wrong, I just read he was 6'2" and a football player. The idea he was a wonderful person taking some time away from home and school to relax is wrong. He was actually suspended from school for 5 days and the last time I knew they don't suspend you for behaving. There are also witness reports that the 2 were fighting on the ground and Zimmerman was on the bottom. I don't think he should've been shot but I wonder if Martin was scared because he had a guy following him and tried to fight back out of fear. Regardless of what happened Martin was killed, Zimmerman did it and he was wrong.
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AMonger
Veteran Expediter
Geraldo is an idiot.
Fact.
Fixed it for you.
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You know the problem with bad cops? They make the other 5% look bad.
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AMonger
Veteran Expediter
Not just white people. Both Chris Rock and Dave Chapelle, and probably others, do bits about how much they worry about going to an ATM at night because of thugs of skin color like theirs. Thug was Chapelle's term; Rock had a more inflammatory one.
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You know the problem with bad cops? They make the other 5% look bad.
That's what I think happened, and it's the most likely scenario - that Martin fought back out of his own fear. Martin was under no obligation to identify himself to the stranger Zimmerman, and Zimmerman never identified himself to Martin. I do know, for sure, that if Zimmerman had done what neighborhood watchmen are supposed to do, namely, watch, and if he hadn't gotten out of his vehicle to confront Martin, that none of this would have happened.
Martin could have been a 6'8" 325 pound linebacker and it shouldn't have mattered. Apparently he was 6"2' and weighed 140 pounds, and hadn't played football since he was 14. He was suspended for 10 days, according to the school principle via the Miami Herald, “He was not suspended for something dealing with violence or anything like that. It wasn’t a crime he committed, but he was in an unauthorized area [on school property]”. Apparently he was already on a 5 day suspension for tardiness, was back at school during that time, and got another 5 days tacked on top of it.
And Martin had tattoos. You know what that means. A 10 day suspension and tattoos? Clearly, the guy was a walking menace.
But none of that really matters. He was walking down a street minding his own business. That's it. That's all he was doing. And that's what necessitated a call to the police by a watchmen, who then pursued him, which resulted an armed confrontation. And now he's dead.
AMonger
Veteran Expediter
You raise some good points, but let's wait for the rest of the facts to emerge. I'm afraid that the stand-your-ground law is going to take a hit on this one. It's the only reasonable stance, not even applicable to Zimmerman here but maybe to Martin, but people seem to be worked up over it.
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You know the problem with bad cops? They make the other 5% look bad.
There's a lot of spin on this with both sides. But I wouldn't be surprised if this doesn't end up being analogous to the police dressing up in riot gear, doing their usual, predictable poking and prodding and intimidating, and then when the people strike back, the police claim to be acting in self defense.
This case has been put forward in many circles as 'proof' of white on black crime and hate. Funny, most young black men, and black people in general, are killed by other black people.
I think one would find the same across all racial lines. As in, most white people killed in crimes are killed by other whites.
I believe that the number of 'hate' crimes of one race on another may likely be about equal but that is just my personal feeling.
Lot's of spin going on in this case, most of it will do nothing but further the mistrust and hatred and do nothing to solve the problem. For the most part, I believe that is the intent.
I think one would find the same across all racial lines. As in, most white people killed in crimes are killed by other whites.
I believe that the number of 'hate' crimes of one race on another may likely be about equal but that is just my personal feeling.
Lot's of spin going on in this case, most of it will do nothing but further the mistrust and hatred and do nothing to solve the problem. For the most part, I believe that is the intent.
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I don't get the symbolism of a hoodie. As I recall, the Unabomber set this fashion trend 20 years ago. The police sketch of the Unabomber was all over the media for a very long time. Ted the Unabomber obviously wore a hoodie to help conceal his identity. The hoodie has a dark past. Now, it's taking on racial overtones. The media love playing the race card. It's an easy sell.
cableguymn
Seasoned Expediter
when did Hispanic people become white?
When Conquistadors and other Spaniards came to the New World in the late 1400's/early 1500's, they intermarried with indigenous peoples. Also, Caucasians of several European nationalities followed suit. To my understanding, all the conquered indigenous people who were forced to adopt the Spanish language and culture may be known as Hispanic. A broad definition of "white Hispanic" might include those who retained predominantly Caucasian features. There are black Hispanics, brown Hispanics, white Hispanics... every conceivable mixture. To avoid the harshest prejudice, fair-skinned Hispanics probably sought to associate themselves with white or Caucasian affiliation. In the New World, skin tone set the caste system.
When they get bleached.
There is NO such race as 'white'. There is no such race known as 'hispanic' either. There are some 'hispanics', which I assume means Spanish speaking, that are caucasian, some are mixed race, some are Native North Americans.
There are very dark brown almost black causcasians as well. Skin color and language spoken has nothing to do with race.
In reality there is only one race anyway. Too bad the government keeps inventing new ways to divide us. Then again a country divided is..............
As the usual publicity whoores that they are, Jackson and Sharpton wasted no time to get here to FL. Of course race has nothing to do with it.
In Detroit it is the NAACP and the UAW joining forces. Funny, all the left wingers are coming out of the woodwork on this one. Any bets that that don't really give a rat's patute about that kid and more about a law that they don't like? Maybe even getting private gun ownership? Naw, they are pure.
Charlatans all. This is what the 'free press' has become. This case is a PRIME example of why we are in the mess we are in. Proof of what happens when 'rights' are exercised without the needed responsibility.