Abortion-should she have gotten the dealth penalty

[bobwg]

'Pro life' people are a strange contradiction: they are willing to admit exceptions to the sacredness of life, [self defense, war, capital punishment] but only those of which they approve. For an unwanted pregnancy, they'll make an exception for rape or incest, which means if the woman can prove she didn't willingly engage in sex, it's ok to abort - but if she chose to have sex, and pregnancy happened, she must go through with the pregnancy and childbirth, followed by the choice of giving up the newborn or embarking on a lifetime of parenthood - brilliant reasoning, innit?
Seriously: even if a woman can prove that she didn't intend to become pregnant [birth control fails at a surprising rate, and humans are fallible people who can forget to be careful in a moment of passion] she must continue the pregnancy. The only 'acceptable' reason to end a pregnancy is to prove that she didn't want to have sex.

You are wrong to compare the murder of innocent baby to someone that defends themselves against a crimminal with their gun, or the death penalty ( at least they had a trial ), or war where we take on our enemies and kill/destroy them

 

[aquitted]

There are 2 things that are sure 1 there is A GOD 2 I,m not HIM
Let the giver of life make that decision and we all will be better off including the born or unborn

 

[cheri1122]

You are wrong to compare the murder of innocent baby

Why is it always "an innocent baby"? If what is aborted actually is a baby [in the first trimester, it is not, and using photos of babies instead is proof that pro lifers know it], there's no such thing as a guilty baby. It's just another way to inject inappropriate and counterproductive emotion into the debate.

to someone that defends themselves against a crimminal with their gun,
or the death penalty ( at least they had a trial ),

Some of those convictions have proven to be wrong, you know. And if people can be wrong about something like a guilty verdict and death sentence, then what makes you think they're not wrong on other matters, that don't get such close attention and serious thought?

or war where we take on our enemies and kill/destroy them

And a whole lot of innocent bystanders & civilians [including babies!] too - but that's ok, it's approved murder.

My point was that prolifers can justify killing people when it suits their beliefs, but it's the ol slippery slope: when you admit some exceptions to the rule, the only question becomes which exceptions.
It looks like the exceptions for terminating an unplanned/unwanted pregnancy are based solely upon whether the woman chose to have sex [rape] or should have had sex [incest]. Neither of which involves the sanctity of life in any way, shape, or form.
What century is this?!

 

[pandora2112]

There are 2 things that are sure 1 there is A GOD 2 I,m not HIM
Let the giver of life make that decision and we all will be better off including the born or unborn

Again can you give a valid argument other I believe in God? We are not a theocracy so that's a fairly invalid argument.



)O( ~ Namaste ~ )O(

 

[pandora2112]

Change just one word in the first sentence: not having children until you are ready is the best idea. Not having sex until one is mature enough to cope with the emotional aspects [and protect against the physical hazards of pregnancy and STDs] is a realistic goal - but until marriage? That's a very bad idea.
Marriage simply isn't for everyone, and shouldn't ever be - a fact that's reflected in the divorce rates. People who get married for the wrong reasons are seldom good spouses [don't ask how I know that for a fact, please] and people who give birth for the wrong reasons aren't usually good parents, either.
A committed and stable marriage is the very best foundation for having children, and we should do everything to encourage that - but it isn't the only way to have and raise children who are a credit to their upbringing, and we need to stop insisting it is.
We also need to stop insisting that having children is the only acceptable reason to have sex, because that's just wrong. There are a great many people who should not have children [some who know it, and some who don't] but that doesn't mean they should be denied one of the greatest pleasures a human being can experience, does it?
Are you really, really saying that the only people who should have sex are people who want children?!!

Very well said...it amazes that many in the pro life camp are also in the camp that is unwilling to teach teens about sex, including birth control and STD prevention.

)O( ~ Namaste ~ )O(

 

[Turtle]

There are 2 things that are sure 1 there is A GOD 2 I,m not HIM
Let the giver of life make that decision and we all will be better off including the born or unborn

Does that mean we should "let the giver of life", you know, God, make that decision in the cases of rape, incest and the health of the mother? Or do we know better than God in that regard?

 

[asjssl]

Does that mean we should "let the giver of life", you know, God, make that decision in the cases of rape, incest and the health of the mother? Or do we know better than God in that regard?

What about us that do not believe there is a god....where is our say...see church stepping on the state..

Sent from my Etch-A-Sketch

 

[skyraider]

He said, she said, I said, or they said, there will be more said before it's said and done, u think?

 

[aquitted]

Does that mean we should "let the giver of life", you know, God, make that decision in the cases of rape, incest and the health of the mother? Or do we know better than God in that regard?

Well I personally will trust the creator's decision over mine He has a much better track record than i do at decision making He see's the future I can't. Whenever I make plans and don't ask my heavenly Father for help they usually go bad but when i listen to Him they go well. If I were aproached by A woman wanting advice on wether or not to kill the life in her womb my advice would be to get on your knees and and pray and ask your heavenly father what He thinks you should do and keep praying till you Hear His answer in your heart. FATHER KNOWS BEST

 

[Turtle]

Well I personally will trust the creator's decision over mine He has a much better track record than i do at decision making He see's the future I can't. Whenever I make plans and don't ask my heavenly Father for help they usually go bad but when i listen to Him they go well. If I were aproached by A woman wanting advice on wether or not to kill the life in her womb my advice would be to get on your knees and and pray and ask your heavenly father what He thinks you should do and keep praying till you Hear His answer in your heart. FATHER KNOWS BEST

You said, "Let the giver of life make that decision and we all will be better off including the born or unborn," and I asked, "Does that mean we should "let the giver of life", you know, God, make that decision in the cases of rape, incest and the health of the mother?"

Rather than give a simple yes or no answer to a simple yes or no question, you've given an example of God telling a woman's heart what to do. So then, as long as the women hears God's answer in her heart, then whatever her heart hears is the right answer, since it came from God. Is that correct? Including getting an abortion for rape, incest, the health of the mother, or just because she wants to have one and God said okey dokey. If that's true, then you really need to be careful in disagreeing with God if He's told her to get an abortion. That would be some very dangerous ground to walk upon, I would think.

 

[Turtle]

What about us that do not believe there is a god....where is our say...see church stepping on the state..

You get a say when you get pregnant, same as the others. Until then, your say means about as much as their say.

 

[paullud]

What about us that do not believe there is a god....where is our say...see church stepping on the state..

Sent from my Etch-A-Sketch

It really should be a to bad situation for atheists. We know our founders intended this country to be a Christian country by giving us guaranteed rights by our Creator. There is no separation of church and state guaranteed but there is a guarantee of freedom OF religion but not freedom FROM religion.

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[pandora2112]

It really should be a to bad situation for atheists. We know our founders intended this country to be a Christian country by giving us guaranteed rights by our Creator. There is no separation of church and state guaranteed but there is a guarantee of freedom OF religion but not freedom FROM religion.

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You might want to retake a few history lessons...I don't want to write the long book of example after example how wrong that statement is!

)O( ~ Namaste ~ )O(

 

[Turtle]

It really should be a to bad situation for atheists. We know our founders intended this country to be a Christian country by giving us guaranteed rights by our Creator. There is no separation of church and state guaranteed but there is a guarantee of freedom OF religion but not freedom FROM religion.

If, as you say, there is no guaranteed freedom FROM religion, then you are advocating that a religion be FORCED onto people, whether they like it or not.

OK, which religion?

Incidentally, "We know our founders intended this country to be a Christian country by giving us guaranteed rights by our Creator," is exceedingly arrogant and warped logic. If the founder intended this to be a Christian country, then they would have plainly said so.

Also, a guaranteed freedom OF something, like speech, religion, press, also must also guarantee the freedom NOT to do the same thing, otherwise there is no freedom in either. You have the right to say whatever you want, and you also have the right to say nothing at all - you cannot be compelled to speak. You have the right to worship, but you cannot be compelled worship. You have the right to print all the news that's fit to print, just like you have the right to print nothing at all. You have the right to keep and bear arms, but you cannot be forced to do the same. You have the right to peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances, but you cannot be forced to do either one

 

[Humble2drive]

It really should be a to bad situation for atheists. We know our founders intended this country to be a Christian country by giving us guaranteed rights by our Creator.

How did you arrive at that conclusion?
The original concerns of our founders was that the Government not be allowed to establish a National religion.
In 1797, President John Adams signed the Tripoli treaty and said the following:

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

An exclusively Christian society was NOT desired and freedom of religion includes all religions to include the Jewish, Muslims, Mormans, Scientologists, Church of Science, etc.. It could even include the Church of Free Choice if someone wanted to found that one.

 

[aquitted]

You said, "Let the giver of life make that decision and we all will be better off including the born or unborn," and I asked, "Does that mean we should "let the giver of life", you know, God, make that decision in the cases of rape, incest and the health of the mother?"

Rather than give a simple yes or no answer to a simple yes or no question, you've given an example of God telling a woman's heart what to do. So then, as long as the women hears God's answer in her heart, then whatever her heart hears is the right answer, since it came from God. Is that correct? Including getting an abortion for rape, incest, the health of the mother, or just because she wants to have one and God said okey dokey. If that's true, then you really need to be careful in disagreeing with God if He's told her to get an abortion. That would be some very dangerous ground to walk upon, I would think.

Sorry I didn't think i would have to spell it out YES I think GOD should be the one making the decision wether incest or rape But you need to read the word so you understand GODs heart His understanding is higher than ours and his ways are higher than our wayss so take the highway. and if someone is praying about A decision to kill their child I know what the answer will be from what I read in the word. If GOD thinks that that child will be mre than the mother can handle HE will take that life back He's done it before. I als o see alot of women in counseling after having their child killed and suffering after making a decision they can't change. As far as saying should she go to prison? I can't make that call Gotta let the one that is without sin cast the first stone and thats not me my job is to love the sinner and hate the sin. I have probably broken more laws than anyone on this board and served 5 years in federal.so i will not and can not do any finger pointing. sorry for anyone who is offended it was not my intention.

 

[Turtle]

I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy that abounds when people think they know what God's decision are going to be. As for the WORD, there's nothing in it about abortion. Not one. And for nearly 2000 years Christianity was perfectly fine with it. But all of a sudden, it's not. If GOD thinks that the child will be more than the mother can handle, then HE will take that life back. He's done it before. But do you completely discount the possibility that he might do it via abortion, through telling the mother in her heart what to do? God works in mysterious ways, and His understanding is higher than ours and His ways are higher than our ways so take the highway.

 

[bobwg]

Funny how some say we don't want to teach sex to teens but the same people don't want to try to stop them from having sex or teaching that the only sure fire way to prevent preg and std is by not having sex

 

[hossman2011]

Change just one word in the first sentence: not having children until you are ready is the best idea. Not having sex until one is mature enough to cope with the emotional aspects [and protect against the physical hazards of pregnancy and STDs] is a realistic goal - but until marriage? That's a very bad idea.
Marriage simply isn't for everyone, and shouldn't ever be - a fact that's reflected in the divorce rates. People who get married for the wrong reasons are seldom good spouses [don't ask how I know that for a fact, please] and people who give birth for the wrong reasons aren't usually good parents, either.
A committed and stable marriage is the very best foundation for having children, and we should do everything to encourage that - but it isn't the only way to have and raise children who are a credit to their upbringing, and we need to stop insisting it is.
We also need to stop insisting that having children is the only acceptable reason to have sex, because that's just wrong. There are a great many people who should not have children [some who know it, and some who don't] but that doesn't mean they should be denied one of the greatest pleasures a human being can experience, does it?
Are you really, really saying that the only people who should have sex are people who want children?!!

well I did say not having intercourse... I did not say anything about sex... although waiting period until you have a ring and a date is a good practice too... and any legitimate study shows that a traditional family IS the best environment to raise a child in.. just a fact.. and I know it is unrealistic to expect anyone to practice personal responsibility and self control.. because we have raised a generation of " I shouldn't have to wait for anything" very sad...

 

[paullud]

You might want to retake a few history lessons...I don't want to write the long book of example after example how wrong that statement is!

)O( ~ Namaste ~ )O(

"endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights"

Game over, end of story. That is from the Declaration of Independence so my knowledge on history is just fine. This country was not established to keep people from having to deal with religion as is quite clear by the document that founded our country. I know people like to claim separation of church and state but it was never put there by the founders of our country.

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