Abortion-should she have gotten the dealth penalty

aquitted

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
It amazes me that if you kill A baby eaglet still in the egg you get 10 years in prison you kill a human being still in the mothers womb and its ok.
I see all these poles of those for and against killing the unborn I would like to see a pole including the votes of those being aborted.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
It amazes me that if you kill A baby eaglet still in the egg you get 10 years in prison you kill a human being still in the mothers womb and its ok.

HA. Shows what you know. That baby eaglet is innocent and is unable to protect itself and needs to be protected from those who would do it harm and put their own interests ahead of it's interests and.... never mind.
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
Mmmm, I could go for some baby eaglet or eagle eggs right now.

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aquitted

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Until you have the answer to "when life begins?" the battle will rage on.

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you: I ordained you A prophet to the nations. [JEREMIAH 1 chapt 5] This was GOD talking to "J"
 

pandora2112

Seasoned Expediter
Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you: I ordained you A prophet to the nations. [JEREMIAH 1 chapt 5] This was GOD talking to "J"

That's a great quote if you are a believer of the bible...but not everyone is nor should those who are not a follower of an Abrahamic based religion be forced to laws based on religion....

)O( ~ Namaste ~ )O(
 

Dreamer

Administrator Emeritus
Charter Member
Are not all our laws based on someone's opinion? I would think most of our laws could be based on the 10 commandments.

But, believe in The Bible or not, all laws were decided because someone decided it should be a law. Murder, bigamy, etc.. not all people believe murder is wrong, or having more than one wife, etc. BUT because a majority of people believed it at one time or another, we have it as law.


All law is someone forcing their system of beliefs on someone else.. for their own protection, or society at large.


Dale
 

pandora2112

Seasoned Expediter
Are not all our laws based on someone's opinion? I would think most of our laws could be based on the 10 commandments.

But, believe in The Bible or not, all laws were decided because someone decided it should be a law. Murder, bigamy, etc.. not all people believe murder is wrong, or having more than one wife, etc. BUT because a majority of people believed it at one time or another, we have it as law.


All law is someone forcing their system of beliefs on someone else.. for their own protection, or society at large.


Dale

But using the bible to deterine that life begins at conception is not how this country works...and majority rules isn't always viable either. Majority didn't believe in equal rights but yet it passed....

)O( ~ Namaste ~ )O(
 

Humble2drive

Expert Expediter
BUT because a majority of people believed it at one time or another, we have it as law.
Dale


Not in America. You are describing a pure democracy which the U.S. is not.
We are a republic where the majority of people elect representatives. Those representatives are entrusted to pass laws in the best interest of their constiuents; however, they more frequently pass laws in their own best interest (getting re-elected, kick backs,etc.) or according to their ideology.

As a result, many laws are passed that represent a small minority of the population. The exception is the few props at a state level.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
There are several of the Ten Commandments that have no real correlation to modern laws. As well, there are several laws we have today which many societies had in force (theft, murder, etc.) that predate the Bible, and in fact in some cultures that never even heard of the Bible.
 

gospelriders

Seasoned Expediter
and your point??
let some horrible man violate YOU.. impregnate you ..and you are forced to have that baby..
that is cruel..think about it..

you know how many criminals are being born because they were born ..UNLOVED thrown into the foster system...have nobody to teach them right/wrong..thats what breeds trouble makers..

its the WOMENS choice...NOT yours!!!


ok there is some serious conversation going on here, but i am still trying to wrap my head around the thought of turtle getting pregnant and having a baby.
 

gospelriders

Seasoned Expediter
I don't think it's an unreasonable conclusion to say that life begins at conception, at least in the terms we can understand, but the conception of anything (life, an idea, whatever) is not the same as the birth of something. If that were the case, then the potential winning run on first would simply go ahead and be counted as a run on the scoreboard. Until a human is born, it is a potential human, a potential child, baby, person, take yer pick.

The question of, "When does life begin?", can only be answered once the question of, "What is life?" can be answered. And it's a far more complex question than people may think, especially to those who need quick and easy, simple answers. It's far easier to state what life isn't. There are certain types of clays and certain chemical compounds that will form, divide, and reshape themselves under certain conditions. Certain chemical reactions can create real, actual amino acids that make copies of themselves. Does that mean they are alive? This is dancing perilously close to man-made lifeforms, of creation itself. To many people, new man-made life forms mean new energy sources, environmental clean-up mechanisms and life-saving medicines. For others, such a breakthrough would mean understanding how life began on Earth by trying to recreate it. Still for others it will a shattering of long-held beliefs. For at least 30 centuries, thinkers ascribed the beginning of life to an extraterrestrial agency - they talked of the hand of God, the divine afflatus, the vital spark, or of "seeds" of life traveling through the cosmos. We are finally on the cusp of having a real, tangible understanding of what life is and how it can begin. That upsets a lot of people.

In the meantime, certain lifeforms are content to tell other lifeforms what to do, how to think, and how to live their lives.

i submit the following quote from the scientific community on the origin of life.
This was also the conclusion of the seventh “International Conference on the Origins of Life” held together with the fourth congress of the “International Society for the Study of the Origin of Life (ISSOL)” in Mainz, Germany. At such occasions, scientists from all over the world exchange their latest results. In his review of the congress, Klaus Dose [D3] writes: “A further puzzle remains, namely the question of the origin of biological information, i.e., the information residing in our genes today.” Not even the physical building blocks required for the storage of the information can construct themselves: “The spontaneous formation of simple nucleotides or even of polynucleotides which were able to be replicated on the pre-biotic earth should now be regarded as improbable in the light of the very many unsuccessful experiments in this regard.”

As early as 1864, when Louis Pasteur addressed the Sorbonne University in Paris, he predicted that the theory of the spontaneous generation of living cells would never recover from the fatal blow delivered by his experiments. In this regard, Klaus Dose makes an equally important statement: “The Mainz report may have an equally important historical impact, because for the first time it has now been determined unequivocally by a large number of scientists that all evolutionary theses that living systems developed from poly-nucleotides which originated spontaneously, are devoid of any empirical base.”
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
There were other comments at the same conference from the same scientific community who disagreed with Dose. Dose's comments were hardly the consensus off the conference. The conference was a sharing of ideas and theories, and what came out of that conference was more or less the same positions that the scientific community had going into the conference, namely that we don't know yet, that no one can say for sure what the origins off life on this planet were. We are likely to not know unless and until life is discovered elsewhere.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
'Pro life' people are a strange contradiction: they are willing to admit exceptions to the sacredness of life, [self defense, war, capital punishment] but only those of which they approve. For an unwanted pregnancy, they'll make an exception for rape or incest, which means if the woman can prove she didn't willingly engage in sex, it's ok to abort - but if she chose to have sex, and pregnancy happened, she must go through with the pregnancy and childbirth, followed by the choice of giving up the newborn or embarking on a lifetime of parenthood - brilliant reasoning, innit?
Seriously: even if a woman can prove that she didn't intend to become pregnant [birth control fails at a surprising rate, and humans are fallible people who can forget to be careful in a moment of passion] she must continue the pregnancy. The only 'acceptable' reason to end a pregnancy is to prove that she didn't want to have sex.





 
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hossman2011

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
who says i dont donate...but shaming women who have been raped and wanting them to have the baby of a rape...gees thats just mean...

lets just have NO abortion..hell these religious wackos dont want birth control..WTF..
so if we stop abortions...no more birth control...who is paying for and HUGGING AND LOVING all these kids

Its not as much of feeding them or housing them...THEY NEED TO BE LOVED.. I could NOT imagine growing up unloved...thats to me is more cruel than not feeding them properly..
so to comply with the anti-abortion/birth control people...there brought into this world to stroke there egos and be UNLOVED..WAREHOUSED..
im sure you were brought up wanted loved hugged fed played with as a kid..
what about the right as a child to be loved properly.

anti abortion people say have em...but no idea who is taking care of these kids properly..but just have em..


I am all for allowing abortion for rape,incest, and health of mother.. What I am most in favor of though is personal responsibility.... if you don't spread them you can't get pregnant!!!! Plain and simple.. what ever happened to the good ole days when parents were really parents that had some sort of values, and passed those onto and drummed them into the children they chose not to abort... today having kids is more of a mine is bigger than yours mentality reather than the privilege it is...
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Your argument is nothing but supposition of possibilities.. things that yes, might be possible but in no way are certain. Death is an absolute, a finality, irrevocable. Is there another legitimate name for the taking of innocent life besides murder? I'm not talking about the liberals bull**** renaming of things to make them pretty and acceptable like calling discrimination affirmative action. I'm talking legitimate that intelligent people who actually think with their brains would use.

"Renaming things to make them pretty" is a "liberal bull**** thing"?! I don't believe it's liberals who use photos of adorable babies to push their views on abortion, is it now?
The typical first trimester abortion is not what is pictured, and that's a fact I know from personal observation.
When those images are displayed, it's a pure BS move to tug at the heartstrings and push the guilt buttons, and when it's aimed at vulnerable and emotional young women, it's despicable, IMO.

I'm 100% in favor of reducing the need for abortion, through education and access to birth control, but it will never be eliminated completely: neither birth control nor humans are perfect.
Shall we return to the days of coat hangers & back alley unlicensed practitioners, then? Would that make you feel better?
 

wvcourier

Expert Expediter
Abortion is very unnatural, it nothing but population control, believe me, behind closed doors ,repyblicans are high fiving at the fact that 60 percent of African Americans and other minorities are never being born. We,are living in dark ages.

Sent from my Teddy Ruxspin
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
Abortion is very unnatural, it nothing but population control, believe me, behind closed doors ,repyblicans are high fiving at the fact that 60 percent of African Americans and other minorities are never being born. We,are living in dark ages.

Sent from my Teddy Ruxspin

Well Margaret Sanger, the woman that started Planned Parenthood, was a supporter of eugenics and birth control to get rid of the unfit.

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hossman2011

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
"Renaming things to make them pretty" is a "liberal bull**** thing"?! I don't believe it's liberals who use photos of adorable babies to push their views on abortion, is it now?
The typical first trimester abortion is not what is pictured, and that's a fact I know from personal observation.
When those images are displayed, it's a pure BS move to tug at the heartstrings and push the guilt buttons, and when it's aimed at vulnerable and emotional young women, it's despicable, IMO.

I'm 100% in favor of reducing the need for abortion, through education and access to birth control, but it will never be eliminated completely: neither birth control nor humans are perfect.
Shall we return to the days of coat hangers & back alley unlicensed , then? Would that make you feel better?

not having intercourse until you are ready for children is probably the best idea.. but again i guess teaching a person to be measured with their bodies is to much personal responsibility to expect.. and the argument that that would be in a perfect world is just a BS justification for lack of character
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
not having intercourse until you are ready for children is probably the best idea.. but again i guess teaching a person to be measured with their bodies is to much personal responsibility to expect.. and the argument that that would be in a perfect world is just a BS justification for lack of character

Change just one word in the first sentence: not having children until you are ready is the best idea. Not having sex until one is mature enough to cope with the emotional aspects [and protect against the physical hazards of pregnancy and STDs] is a realistic goal - but until marriage? That's a very bad idea.
Marriage simply isn't for everyone, and shouldn't ever be - a fact that's reflected in the divorce rates. People who get married for the wrong reasons are seldom good spouses [don't ask how I know that for a fact, please] and people who give birth for the wrong reasons aren't usually good parents, either.
A committed and stable marriage is the very best foundation for having children, and we should do everything to encourage that - but it isn't the only way to have and raise children who are a credit to their upbringing, and we need to stop insisting it is.
We also need to stop insisting that having children is the only acceptable reason to have sex, because that's just wrong. There are a great many people who should not have children [some who know it, and some who don't] but that doesn't mean they should be denied one of the greatest pleasures a human being can experience, does it?

Are you really, really saying that the only people who should have sex are people who want children?!! :eek:
 
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