A simple EOBR question

beachbum

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Unless you load direct from the customer your customer is either the broker or the company you are leased too, therefore, brokers and leased companies are responsible to pay detention for time spent at the dock, period.

I believe most here don't understand business because what I posted above and what Zorry posted is business 101.

That is why I laugh at OOIDA wanting shippers and receivers held responsible for a trucking companies liability.
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
In english,EOBR's are coming wether you like them or not.

I wouldn't be to sure of that yet, there are multiple solid arguments against them. I have a feeling we may see them become a punitive device again for companies that have log book issues. We are still a long ways out before this will go into effect so there is plenty of time for it to change.

Sent from my ADR6400L using EO Forums
 

blackpup

Veteran Expediter
The EOBR should make it easier to prove detention time.
Just go to a carrier with the gonads to charge for it.

If the EOBR is ever a nation wide mandate for all ATA carriers, the detention time issue might bite the ATA carriers hard.

jimmy
 

pearlpro

Expert Expediter
They have passed a bill that forbids the DOT from spending any money to make the EOBR mandate work, its not here yet, seems many have just thrown there hands up and decided thats the way its gonna be, you dont mind what they regulate or tell you to do you just say heres my wallet, take my money....There may be some good things, there may be some bad things, its like an opinion we all have that and express it freely. Im against it, if it take 15 posts to show you what harrasment is when the box says you have to continue driving, but you want to park in a freindly truck stop and shower, but the box says you MUST DRIVE, and it beeps, and Beeps, and Beeps just like the qualcomm did, and does....if thats not harrassment, then its darn sure a friendly nudge saying MOVE/DRIVE/YOU MUST WORK.....maybe harrasment is when the seat shocks you and the Bunk throws you out on the floor, when the bossman says WORK.

How many safety messages do you get at 5 am telling you the highway is closed in Florida when your in AZ....I used to get message from our safety dept in Florida all when they knew darn well I was in bed sleeping, why sebd them at 3-4-5 am in the morning if your not driving then, so the EOBR will say You have 28 minutes left in your day MOVE MOVE MOVE, Ive seen it, and heard it from many guys weho already have them, AND they say the time gets manipulated, added, and all of a sudden the back on the road driving...DATA MANIPULATED

It may be the new law of the land but right now they cant do a thing with the mandate as the House defunded the DOT and made spending money to implement the EOBR isnt happening. They didnt defund the EOBR, but the ability of the DOT To implement the programs mandates.

I dont want them, sorry but Its my opinion.
 

EasyDoesIt

Active Expediter
EBOR is coming to a carrier near you, just a matter of time. We already have trucks with black boxes. Dispatch can tell if you hard brake, corner too fast, idle too long and many other things you do to their equipment. The scale house camera can see if you wear a seatbelt, scale you in motion and check brake adjustment with sensors as you roll up to the scale. PrePass, Qualcomm and Comdata all are electronic tracing devices. Wouldn't surprise me if they put sensors in the bunk to say you are actually in the sleeper.
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
We have a sensor in our bunk that can tell my co-driver if I'm sneaking a cookie at 70 mph. With the radio on and curtains closed.
One of the pitffalls of hooking up with a former school teacher.
 

pearlpro

Expert Expediter
STRAIGHT FROM THE HORSES MOUTH...


What is the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration’s (FMCSA) reaction to claims regarding the use of electronic on-board recorders (EOBRs) and their potential safety benefits?
How often are HOS violations discovered during roadside inspections?
Certain parties have claimed that an EOBR mandate would impose a $2 billion cost on the commercial motor vehicle (CMV) industry. This claim is based on the Agency’s Regulatory Impact Analysis (RIA) for the 2011 notice of proposed rulemaking (NPRM) that estimated total costs of $2.377 billion per year. Would the EOBR rulemaking be considered cost-beneficial with such significant expenses for the transportation industry?
What is FMCSA’s estimate for the costs of an average EOBR device?
Which EOBR device did FMCSA use as the basis for its estimated costs in the 2011 rulemaking proposal?
In the year since FMCSA published its proposal for a broad industry mandate for EOBRs, has the Agency observed any changes in the marketplace for these devices to influence the costs?
With regard to the performance criteria or technical specifications for EOBRs, how would FMCSA ensure the devices purchased by fleets meet the requirements?

1.

What is the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration’s (FMCSA) reaction to claims regarding the use of electronic on-board recorders (EOBRs) and their potential safety benefits?


FMCSA is considering a proposed rulemaking to mandate the use of EOBRs for carriers currently using handwritten records of duty status (RODS), or logbooks. The rulemaking would advance safety by requiring the use of a proven technology for accurately capturing driving time and increasing the level of compliance with the hours of service (HOS) rules. EOBRs would enable roadside inspectors to quickly identify drivers exceeding driving time limitations and to take action to prevent them from continuing to exceed HOS limits. This would decrease the risk of fatigue-related crashes, thereby improving safety.



2.

How often are HOS violations discovered during roadside inspections?


In 2011, Federal and State inspectors conducted 3.5 million driver inspections at the roadside, resulting in 1.2 million citations for driver violations of motor carrier safety regulations. Of these violations, 48 percent, or 576,000, were related to compliance with HOS or maintenance of logbooks, including exceeding daily and weekly driving time limits, false logs, “no log” violations, form and manner violations, and non-current logs.



3.

Certain parties have claimed that an EOBR mandate would impose a $2 billion cost on the commercial motor vehicle (CMV) industry. This claim is based on the Agency’s Regulatory Impact Analysis (RIA) for the 2011 notice of proposed rulemaking (NPRM) that estimated total costs of $2.377 billion per year. Would the EOBR rulemaking be considered cost-beneficial with such significant expenses for the transportation industry?


Yes. FMCSA’s RIA for the 2011 NPRM reported total benefits of $2.711 billion, resulting in an annual net benefit of $344 million. A significant portion of these benefits would come from $1.965 billion in annual paperwork reduction – a savings of $688 per driver each year – due to drivers no longer completing and submitting logbooks. The paperwork burden associated with RODS is one of the Federal government’s largest, in fact second only to the burden of filing Federal taxes each year. The Agency is currently preparing a supplemental NPRM that will re-examine the estimated costs and benefits (both paperwork savings and safety) associated with an EOBR mandate for carriers using handwritten RODS.



4.

What is FMCSA’s estimate for the costs of an average EOBR device?


The FMCSA estimated in its 2011 EOBR proposed rulemaking that the typical carrier would likely be required to spend $1,500 to $2,000 per CMV to purchase and install EOBRs, and several hundred dollars per year for service fees. The 2011 estimate was higher than the regulatory evaluation issued with the 2010 final rule, subsequently vacated by a Federal court, because the previous rule focused on the least expensive device determined to be compliant with the rule. The Agency chose to base its calculations on the higher cost device in the 2011 NPRM because it did not believe that a sufficient number of the cheapest units would be available for a broad industry mandate, which would cover approximately 2 million units.



5.

Which EOBR device did FMCSA use as the basis for its estimated costs in the 2011 rulemaking proposal?


FMCSA used Qualcomm’s Mobile Computing Platform (MCP) 150, which retails for approximately $1,775, including $100 for installation. The Agency based its estimate on this device because we did not find evidence indicating that a sufficient number of the lowest-cost units estimated under the 2010 final rule would be available for a broad industry mandate (the Agency estimates that approximately 2 million devices would be needed). The higher cost also reflects the assumption that carriers would install EOBRs with functions and features unrelated to the HOS-monitoring feature.



6.

In the year since FMCSA published its proposal for a broad industry mandate for EOBRs, has the Agency observed any changes in the marketplace for these devices to influence the costs?


Yes. The Agency believes the market has changed since 2011, with new vendors entering the market responding to the demand for electronic logging devices with fewer fleet management features. While FMCSA is still assessing cost data and projections, the availability of these cheaper devices should significantly decrease the estimated cost of the rule compared to that of the 2011 RIA. For example, Qualcomm has introduced an updated version of the MCP 150 called the MCP 50. This device retails for approximately $899, including installation, for a savings of almost $900 over the MCP 150, the device used as a basis for the cost estimates in our 2011 proposed rule. Other vendors are advertising EOBRs at even lower prices, although not yet in sufficient numbers to meet a broad industry mandate. Continental’s VDO Roadlog retails for about $500, including installation. Other smaller vendors offer EOBR devices that can run as an application on a smartphone. J.J. Keller leases devices for a monthly fee plus a $199 initial fee. Generally, these new devices would probably have satisfied the technical specifications included in the 2010 final rule.



7.

With regard to the performance criteria or technical specifications for EOBRs, how would FMCSA ensure the devices purchased by fleets meet the requirements?


The technical specifications FMCSA is considering for its EOBR rulemaking would reduce opportunities for tampering with the devices because the rule would make EOBR manufacturers – which have the most knowledge about their hardware and software designs – responsible for compliance with the Agency’s performance criteria. This approach would allow FMCSA to direct its enforcement resources toward those situations in which motor carriers or drivers misuse EOBRs or the records they generate. A previous Department of Transportation study entitled “Recommendations Regarding the Use of Electronic On-Board Recorders (EOBRs) for Reporting Hours of Service” addresses a range of methods to prevent tampering with the physical EOBR device, to the greatest extent practicable, as well as the electronic records it holds.


I guess were all lying cheatin no good crooked truckers, who must spend 1885.00 dollars and then the monitoring fee monthly....but what the heck, Im only here cuz I like my job .....
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
FMCSA's conclusions are as flawed as the reasoning used to support them. For example, their point in #1 is that ensuring compliance with HOS will reduce fatigue - not even remotely true. HOS are a one size fits all that was pushed [and probably written] by the 'big players': ATA. It does not work for solo drivers or expediters. It not only doesn't reduce fatigue, the loss of the split sleeper option increases it, by forcing drivers to continue for the 11 hours straight, because there's no flexibility in the 14 hour rule. This means we drive through NYC, Chicago, DC/Baltimore, etc, during rush hour, where we used to have the option of parking for 2 hours, enjoying a proper meal & a nap, and resuming feeling relaxed. Now we can't stop, so we get stressed and fatigued instead. It also threatens the ability of solos [like myself] to remain self employed, as detention time counts against the clock, and endangers the ability to deliver before time runs out. Their answer? Teams. Yep.
The ATA carriers don't worry too much about detention, as much of their work is drop & hook, and the rest isn't time sensitive. They find detention a lesser problem than insisting the shippers & receivers clean up their act. The response to that would be to switch carriers, and they know it.
Any claimed benefit in reducing fatigue by strict enforcement of the revised HOS is pure speculation, based on flawed assumptions, and countered by the proven experience of drivers who logged before and after the HOS revision.
Their #2 assertion regarding violations is one we all know is loaded with misleading statistics, such as violations for numerous log errors or omissions that have zip to do with fatigue.
The bottom line is the FMCSA wants EOBRs because the ATA wants them. Partly to 'level the playing field' [if only the 'bad apples' are required to use them, some of ATA's biggest carriers won't look too good] and partly to 'maximize' time driving. The last attitude is why I was fired when I drove T/T: I wanted to stop driving when I found a safe place to park, but the carrier insisted I drive until the time was up, and park wherever I happened to be. If I couldn't find a spot, that was my problem, not theirs.
Mandatory EOBRs are a poor response to the ATA's problems with retaining safe & qualified drivers, but it's what they want. FMCSA is happy to comply, as it appears they're doing something about a problem that they wouldn't have a clue how to effectively address otherwise, and we may be forced to accept it, because we all know whose opinions count with the government.
:mad:
 

pearlpro

Expert Expediter
Ya what do we know were just the DRIVER....the person responsible ....liable.....and paying for the insurance...but someone in a dark room staring at some Computer monitors KNOWS whats best for us....
 
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