$265,000 to welfare in a few years-

[DannyD]

#3 in residential sales. 120 or so houses sold. That's county, not country. No idea where he ranks in the country. Not sure what the average home in this area is, but I'm guessing 80-100,000 at that time. 3.5% commission (split w/ his broker) on most homes, .. $265K sounds about right. That's for real estate + his tax business.

That was his top year. His final year working. He didn't put that much in his bank account. He paid a slew of taxes. I don't know what write offs he got. I don't know the tax code. However, I can't see where there'd be a whole lot for someone in his job. Home office maybe, 401K or something like that maybe. Not sure what else. As a tax preparer he'd know what write offs he could get.

While I know a lot about him, I don't know his finances down to the last penny. So this is only a guess, but of that 265 he paid 80-100 of it in taxes.

He didn't give away his fortune. He spent it. This wasn't a one time give away, it was something that took some time. In a few cases I know where some big chunks of it went. Whether he has any hidden somewhere or not my guess is he doesn't. It wouldn't shock me if I found out he did though.

We're not enemies now, but once he moved a few years ago we sort of drifted apart. It was one of those things where I knew what he was planning-this, leave Michigan, a few other things- but once he moved our contact got less & less along the way. Every now & then we'll talk or email, but it's not like it was when he lived here.

Regarding your friends Real Estate Career. IF he was #3 producer in the Country he's missing something if his compensation was only $265,000.00. Plus I doubt if he gave away his foutune I'm sure it's available to him somewhere.

 

[scottm4211]

Danny do you think there's something more to his drastic change in lifestyle? (drugs, depression)
It seems bizarre for someone that was once so driven to drop out of society like that.

 

[layoutshooter]

Danny do you think there's something more to his drastic change in lifestyle? (drugs, depression)
It seems bizarre for someone that was once so driven to drop out of society like that.

Naw, it does not see all that bizarre to me. Why work if you have such a large percentage of it TAKEN from you? It is getting VERY old to say the least. What makes it worse is that they give to bums who are just to dang gum lazy to go out and earn themselves.

Our tax systems PUNISHES hard work and rewards sloth. That is NOT the best recipe for keeping a nation productive.

 

[scottm4211]

Naw, it does not see all that bizarre to me. Why work if you have such a large percentage of it TAKEN from you? It is getting VERY old to say the least. What makes it worse is that they give to bums who are just to dang gum lazy to go out and earn themselves.

Our tax systems PUNISHES hard work and rewards sloth. That is NOT the best recipe for keeping a nation productive.

But this is nothing new layout. It might be worse now, I'm not the one to judge that. But it certainly wasn't something that was just dropped in your collective laps.

 

[DannyD]

Right, if he was to make that, pay off his house, & live frugally. Live off the interest so to speak.

The reality of it though is that people who make money tend to spend it along the way. In his case ya could see the progression. From college where he lived w/ his folks to small house, to nice house, etc. Other things like his vehicle followed suit. From beat up Ford to a couple of nice cars.

I guess all threads take their twists & turns. While I don't think I'd do what he did, I can totally see where people get fed up w/ paying & paying & paying while our government spends spends spends money that's not theirs.

Whether he made the right or wrong decision I'm not so sure. Despite my support for him I'm actually leaning towards he made the wrong one. Of if not the totally wrong decision, there's better choices he could have made. In the end though it's his choice. It's definately a unique decision though.

Yeah, if he was to the point of selling a house a day, then he could retire as independently wealthy after about a year of that.

 

[layoutshooter]

But this is nothing new layout. It might be worse now, I'm not the one to judge that. But it certainly wasn't something that was just dropped in your collective laps.

No, it is NOT new. The problem is that it is just starting to wear on people. It IS getting worse to be sure. I to am starting to watch what is going on with MY business. We did good last year and taxes took quite a bite. Too much more of a bite and I will "limit" what I earn. I see NO reason to give it away.

 

[BillChaffey]

Dan D,
my apologies for not reading a little more closely. That being said. Any able bodied person who would prefer to be on the dole instead of working. I wouldn't stop to urinate on him if he were on fire.

 

[DannyD]

Very interesting observation. Ironic you'd bring that up. No drugs but we've thought maybe depression. "We" being a few of his other friends. However, he seems happy.

The thing that makes us think it's not depression is this was a planned happening. He's never shared anyone's personal tax info. At the same time we knew there were situations w/ tax clients he just didn't think were right. Either favorable to someone or not favorable to someone.

At first it might be a mild type comment. Without mentioning names it might be something like "this doctor is not only making this lazy couple healthy, he's paying their rent." He never used to swear. But as the years went on it became a comment like "Holy Chyt! This Doctor is getting F'ED!!" Insert any profession there- just using doctors as the example. Point being he'd be a lot more intense in his comments about who was making out & who was getting shafted.

The other thing that makes me think it's not depression is he'd go back to work if they changed the tax laws. He's for these changes even though he knows it would put tax services out of business. He's also ran numbers if ya will. What he's getting for free vs what he was getting for his work. Also what he's paid in vs what he's likely to get back.

I agree it's bizarre. Some of us have wondered if he was depressed. I guess it's possible. Most of us think it's a case of frustration/anger.

On the last thing it's not like he's dropped totally out of society. He's not a hermit living in the slums. He's got a girlfriend, lives in a decent apartment, has food, internet, tv, the basics of life.

Danny do you think there's something more to his drastic change in lifestyle? (drugs, depression)
It seems bizarre for someone that was once so driven to drop out of society like that.

 

[cheri1122]

I can see this point of view. I can also see my friends.

The biggest and wealthiest have gone far beyond exploiting tax loopholes, they've distorted the entire premise of the tax code. For example: establishing a 'presence' that consists of a bank account in a foreign country in order to claim it as a 'base'. Creating 'shell companies'. Creating wholly owned subsidiaries simply to recoup or recycle what they would otherwise have to pay in tax.
We ordinary folks have no such options, so we pay what the government requires.
Paying for the government is like paying the electric bill: I think it's too much money, but it is necessary if I want the services rendered. I can try to pressure the utility/government to reduce it, but I still have to pay for what I get. And personally, I'm thankful that I CAN pay, when so many have less.
Just curious, Danny: how does someone on welfare manage to live in a 'decent' house? At least in Ohio, the waiting list for housing assistance is years long, and few of the available apartments/houses are in 'decent' neighborhoods, because the 'decent' neighbors object - and they have clout with the local politicians, and get what they want.
Another thing: food stamps don't cover half the actual cost of food, and none for such luxuries as soap, toilet paper, toothpaste, etc. Anyone living off the government's 'largesse' is not exactly enjoying life, IMO.

 

[layoutshooter]

"Another thing: food stamps don't cover half the actual cost of food, and none for such luxuries as soap, toilet paper, toothpaste, etc. Anyone living off the government's 'largesse' is not exactly enjoying life, IMO."


Go watch them check out sometimes and see what they buy with food stamps. They also "trade" them for booze, drugs, cigarettes etc.

They MIGHT not be enjoying life by your or my standards but a whole bunch of them spend a lifetime doing it. Like my niece, her 3 kids and the two fathers. It is not known at this time which one of the two bums, neither work or support their kids, she is married to. She does have SEVERAL tatoos and 3 cell phones and no job. Great system. WE are paying for her sloth.

 

[cheri1122]

"Another thing: food stamps don't cover half the actual cost of food, and none for such luxuries as soap, toilet paper, toothpaste, etc. Anyone living off the government's 'largesse' is not exactly enjoying life, IMO."


Go watch them check out sometimes and see what they buy with food stamps.
I have never seen anyone buying the items that outrage people. I have read reports and analyses of benefits vs food costs, and all agree that food stamps don't provide enough money to eat for the time intended, much less eat healthy. Was a great experiment years ago, when the new director of Agriculture tried to live on a food stamp budget for one month, and admitted it isn't possible.
They also "trade" them for booze, drugs, cigarettes etc.
When 'they' get caught, they get prosecuted, too.

They MIGHT not be enjoying life by your or my standards but a whole bunch of them spend a lifetime doing it. Like my niece, her 3 kids and the two fathers. It is not known at this time which one of the two bums, neither work or support their kids, she is married to. She does have SEVERAL tatoos and 3 cell phones and no job. Great system. WE are paying for her sloth.

Just because you know some of the facts about one person, [and you don't know all the facts] doesn't mean the whole group is the same, does it? You think everyone on food stamps [or even most of them] is a lazy person? Because your niece is a worthless bit of trash, everyone who collects food stamps is too?
Of course you'll deny it, but it's the only comment you ever make: one person you know fits the stereotype, so it must be true.
The belief that poor people are also lazy is pretty popular around here, but it isn't generally true - it's just easier to ignore the problems if you think they deserve it.

 

[layoutshooter]

Just because you know some of the facts about one person, [and you don't know all the facts] doesn't mean the whole group is the same, does it? You think everyone on food stamps [or even most of them] is a lazy person? Because your niece is a worthless bit of trash, everyone who collects food stamps is too?
Of course you'll deny it, but it's the only comment you ever make: one person you know fits the stereotype, so it must be true.
The belief that poor people are also lazy is pretty popular around here, but it isn't generally true - it's just easier to ignore the problems if you think they deserve it.

I have NEVER said that the poor are lazy. I know MANY hard working poor people who EARN their way through life, would NEVER collect food stamps even though they can, and refuse any sort of help.

If I ever get the chance I will introduce you to a man that I know, disabled vet, who is a case worker in a southern Michigan county that adjoins Ohio. (I won't say which county, don't want to get him in trouble) He will fill you in on the reality that he deals with on a daily basis. His stories fit what I have learned from talking with many others in his business, the MAJORITY on public assistance are bums.

That is NOT to say that all are. There are many in real need of help. They are too sick, too retarded etc. There is NO valid excuse for able bodied people to not be earning a living.

Yeah, help them out in a pinch, for a SHORT time. REQUIRE them to EARN that help AND require them to upgrade their skill sets.

My niece is JUST like her father, my bum brother, who never finished high school, (too busy smoking dope and knocking up his girlfriend) who lived in public assisted housing for 16 years, (while smoking dope) and did NOTHING to improve his chances for a job. He blames the government for all his problems. It was Vietnam and the atomic bomb that MADE him smoke dope.

My nieces "live in whatever" is busy smoking dope and making guitars out of toilet seats. Never sells them. He does buy dope and cigs with YOUR tax dollars.

As I say, some day with any luck I will introduce you to some people, I am not talking out my ears. Yeah, I know all the facts about my niece. She tells everyone how she is NOT working and sees no need too. My brother HELPS her, his OWN DAUGHTER to get the government aid that she is ENTITLED TOO.

 

[greg334]

You know once upon a time people lived and worked without issues of what they didn't have. Then a bunch of people came up with the idea that they needed to help the "Poor" because they were poor but those who they called poor didn't felt that they were poor but worked with what they got. These people who went to help those poor explained to these poor that they didn't have this or that and showed them what they were missing. Once this idea got entrenched, it was all over for those poor people, they needed to achieve equality to those who have more than they had, to have a car and a phone.

NOW this is true, once, even into the 60's people were content with what they had, they lived and worked with what they had but when people told them they were poor, everything changed and many expected something. Those who work now are not poor and shoudn't be called poor because they have their pride to continue do better while those who claim to be poor and asking for help (not a hand up but hand out help) are lazy.

If we want to help those poor, outside of limiting help, cut them off and let them work together to move up in life.

 

[layoutshooter]

Well said Greg.

Another real life example. My wife's mother was the daughter of a share cropper. That family EARNED their way out and have done well WITHOUT government assistance.

It CAN be done but you have to WANT to do it.

 

[davekc]

With so many states in trouble financially, I think it supports the thinking of having people work for their welfare checks unless they have a physical limitation.
I would be of the thinking that the costs of welfare would drop in half.

 

[layoutshooter]

With so many states in trouble financially, I think it supports the thinking of having people work for their welfare checks unless they have a physical limitation.
I would be of the thinking that the costs of welfare would drop in half.

That guy I hunted with this year says that he believes that his case load would drop by 85%.

 

[chefdennis]

You got it Greg...just look at what happened to Detroit when the "Great Society' came and told them they needed the Gov help because they were poor...lol, but as you said, they didn't even know it....got to love the liberal mind set...help others so "they the libs' can feel good....

 

[layoutshooter]

The mindset of the "modern liberal" (different from a Classic liberal) is NOT to help but to create dependence to further their control of the people. Nothing more.

Welfare as we know it today MUST be done away with. It is working all too well, creating a class of dependent people who are now beholding to the government for their needs. That is NOT a good thing.

 

[davekc]

As I said, I think there does need to be some type of compassion clause for the truely needed. I don't think we are a country that would throw those people "under the bus".
Everyone else should provide some form of labor in my opinion for those benefits.
Same with unemployment. They should get the benefit of what they paid in and that is it. That is the whole purpose of the program. After that, no extensions or other aid unless they work for it.

 

[layoutshooter]

As I said, I think there does need to be some type of compassion clause for the truely needed. I don't think we are a country that would throw those people "under the bus".
Everyone else should provide some form of labor in my opinion for those benefits.
Same with unemployment. They should get the benefit of what they paid in and that is it. That is the whole purpose of the program. After that, no extensions or other aid unless they work for it.

We need a "safety net" of some sort. I don't think that the federal government is the right entity to provide it.

The idea of just handing out money is wrong. ANY assistance should require work, work that does NOT take away work that is already being done by someone else. It would do NO good to take away the job of a productive person.

When people are left to their own devices they tend to do better. When people are cared for they tend to stay that way. As the old saying goes, "Objects in motion tend to stay in motion, objects at rest tend to stay at rest". People are no different.