2010 Sprinter search begins
- Thread starter cspexpeditus
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cspexpeditus
Seasoned Expediter
Thanks for the heads-up. I have no plans for a dually, just saying I didn't think the extra drag and fuel was worth the extra strength. I will be looking at 2500's.
dhalltoyo
Veteran Expediter
Correct!
The dual wheel application reduces fuel economy.
In a GM platform it makes little sense to buy a dually with a GVWR of 10,000lbs when a single rear wheel now has a GVWR of 9900lbs.
In regards to the Prius, increased production levels can, and do, yield a decrease in costs. When the Georgetown plant opened I saw the MSRP on the Camry decrease. Toyota was producing units at Georgetown and still bringing in units from Japan. Mass production usually allows for greater leverage when buying parts from suppliers; therefore reducing final production costs.
Keep in mind that MSRP is a "suggested" price. If the market bares more in Florida...so be it.
The dual wheel application reduces fuel economy.
In a GM platform it makes little sense to buy a dually with a GVWR of 10,000lbs when a single rear wheel now has a GVWR of 9900lbs.
In regards to the Prius, increased production levels can, and do, yield a decrease in costs. When the Georgetown plant opened I saw the MSRP on the Camry decrease. Toyota was producing units at Georgetown and still bringing in units from Japan. Mass production usually allows for greater leverage when buying parts from suppliers; therefore reducing final production costs.
Keep in mind that MSRP is a "suggested" price. If the market bares more in Florida...so be it.
cspexpeditus
Seasoned Expediter
Its funny that the flat price of gas has had more people considering Prius lately. Used models coming off previous leases were fetching 26-28k when gas was at 3.80. When the gas prices fell so did Prius sales, I remeber everyone was buying up the Trailblazer SS for less than a Prius. Whats really frustrating is the 400hp SS 5.3l gets 1mpg better economy than our 275hp 4.2l.
lol Soon we will have a Prius though You mentioned that the duallys were just over 10k, and at the FMCSA website it says that vehicles under 10k did not need MC or DOT. But I am confused. If I were for hire, wouldn't I still need commercial tags, MC, DOT etc? I believe Florida requires it on vehicles under 10k also. And if operating under someone else's authority for interstate use, I think the commercial tags are required also? Could you help me understand this a little better. I know these requirements vary from state to state which is just rediculous.
Its funny that the flat price of gas has had more people considering Prius lately. Used models coming off previous leases were fetching 26-28k when gas was at 3.80. When the gas prices fell so did Prius sales, I remeber everyone was buying up the Trailblazer SS for less than a Prius. Whats really frustrating is the 400hp SS 5.3l gets 1mpg better economy than our 275hp 4.2l.
You mentioned that the duallys were just over 10k, and at the FMCSA website it says that vehicles under 10k did not need MC or DOT. But I am confused. If I were for hire, wouldn't I still need commercial tags, MC, DOT etc? I believe Florida requires it on vehicles under 10k also. And if operating under someone else's authority for interstate use, I think the commercial tags are required also? Could you help me understand this a little better. I know these requirements vary from state to state which is just rediculous.
Simple solution...go with Commercial tags and you are covered and no worries that some loco yoco isn't going to bust you...
chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
As Ovm wrote, buy commerical plates...but that doesn't mean you are controlled by the DOT unless you are OVER 10,000 gvw...not all dual rear wheel "cube vans are OVER but are right at 10,000 lb gvw, so no DOT rules apply as far as logs, scaling and hours of service....now that being said, some companies have different requirements of their UNDER 10,000 gvw drivers and some follow some DOT rules while others don't, that tends to be more for insurance reason.....
When you lease with a carrier, you will carry their DOT #,s, but again, in a under 10,000 you are still not under the rule of the DOT.....it is when you cross that line and go to 10,001 lb and up gvw that you now have to follow all the DOT regs....
As dave said, with GM offering a 9900 lb srw gvw chassis now, there is no reason to even consider a dually for what we do....personally I'd like to "stretch" a 9900 lb srw chassis so that it would take a 16 ft long inside dimension box....that would be a great truck for expediting as far as i can see....
When you lease with a carrier, you will carry their DOT #,s, but again, in a under 10,000 you are still not under the rule of the DOT.....it is when you cross that line and go to 10,001 lb and up gvw that you now have to follow all the DOT regs....
As dave said, with GM offering a 9900 lb srw gvw chassis now, there is no reason to even consider a dually for what we do....personally I'd like to "stretch" a 9900 lb srw chassis so that it would take a 16 ft long inside dimension box....that would be a great truck for expediting as far as i can see....
cspexpeditus
Seasoned Expediter
Thanks OVM and ChefD,
I guess what I am trying to understand is the basic definition of an O/O, and the advantage vs disadvantage being a solo act.
I thought an O/O was someone operating under their own authority. But what advantage is there to having your own MC compared to operating under someone else's? Isn't the OTR schedule the same either way, e.g. weeks or months on the road. I think what I am saying is, if you receive a load with no back haul, aren't you in the same situation of finding your own way out either way?
I guess what I am trying to understand is the basic definition of an O/O, and the advantage vs disadvantage being a solo act.
I thought an O/O was someone operating under their own authority. But what advantage is there to having your own MC compared to operating under someone else's? Isn't the OTR schedule the same either way, e.g. weeks or months on the road. I think what I am saying is, if you receive a load with no back haul, aren't you in the same situation of finding your own way out either way?
greg334
Veteran Expediter
1 - in this business (niche market actually) most of the people (O/O) are contracted to a company (FedEx, Panther, Bolt) and operate under their authority.
2 - independents, true independents are O/O who have their own authority.
3 - there drivers who work for O/Os who are either contracted to a company (they are sub-contractors at that point) or O/O who are independents.
4 - Then there are fleet owners who are not O/O at all but fleet owners. They are a mix of the first two and have drivers like number three.
5 - this is a lot different than OTR because in this case dwell time is a factor more than OTR, meaning that there is a lot more sitting here than OTR and the versatility of the vehicle, (tractor/trailer opposed to straight truck) matters because T/Ts can haul everything the van or straight truck can haul and more.
6 - there is no schedule, this seems to be like On Demand Trucking.
2 - independents, true independents are O/O who have their own authority.
3 - there drivers who work for O/Os who are either contracted to a company (they are sub-contractors at that point) or O/O who are independents.
4 - Then there are fleet owners who are not O/O at all but fleet owners. They are a mix of the first two and have drivers like number three.
5 - this is a lot different than OTR because in this case dwell time is a factor more than OTR, meaning that there is a lot more sitting here than OTR and the versatility of the vehicle, (tractor/trailer opposed to straight truck) matters because T/Ts can haul everything the van or straight truck can haul and more.
6 - there is no schedule, this seems to be like On Demand Trucking.
chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
I Own my van, I drive it myself as a Operator. I lease to Bolt and drive under their DOT Authority and they find my freight as i have a exclusive use lease with them, meaning i can only haul freight that goes through them...anyone can find their own freight with or without their own authority, but once a person without their own authority finds that freight, he lets a broker take a cut and book it.....
As Greg said there is no schedule...you might drop a load and then sit and wait for days until your carrier finds you another load.....this is not like the "trucking industry" as most people know it...we are not "drop and hook' or "drop and load", we are "drop and wait" for the most part
Now i think you are also confused on driving solo...that term as nothing to do with having the authority to haul freight...a solo driver or solo O/O drives my him or herself....a Team drives as a pair and in most situations can drive longer, more hours and miles then a solo...but... there are companies that do not restrict the hours of their CV drivers and let them roll....
I have no desire to get my own authority while driving a cargo van....the headaches of paper work, billing and the issues of getting paid timely or getting paid at all are not worth it to me...i'll let the broker/carrier deal with that and let them pay me up front and they can wait for their money...but thats just me....loading and driving all day, unloading then doing billing and paperwork from my CV does not appeal to me at all....but there are those that do it...more power to them....
As far as dropping and having a backhaul ...most drivers don't in this business...yea you from time to time be "pre-dispatched" with another load, but thats not as common as it once was...we drop and wait...hours, days, weeks if you are TJP!!
Keep reading here and asking questions, while it isn't rocket science, it is not as easy as falling off a cliff either!!!
As Greg said there is no schedule...you might drop a load and then sit and wait for days until your carrier finds you another load.....this is not like the "trucking industry" as most people know it...we are not "drop and hook' or "drop and load", we are "drop and wait" for the most part
Now i think you are also confused on driving solo...that term as nothing to do with having the authority to haul freight...a solo driver or solo O/O drives my him or herself....a Team drives as a pair and in most situations can drive longer, more hours and miles then a solo...but... there are companies that do not restrict the hours of their CV drivers and let them roll....
I have no desire to get my own authority while driving a cargo van....the headaches of paper work, billing and the issues of getting paid timely or getting paid at all are not worth it to me...i'll let the broker/carrier deal with that and let them pay me up front and they can wait for their money...but thats just me....loading and driving all day, unloading then doing billing and paperwork from my CV does not appeal to me at all....but there are those that do it...more power to them....
As far as dropping and having a backhaul ...most drivers don't in this business...yea you from time to time be "pre-dispatched" with another load, but thats not as common as it once was...we drop and wait...hours, days, weeks if you are TJP
!!Keep reading here and asking questions, while it isn't rocket science, it is not as easy as falling off a cliff either!!!
cspexpeditus
Seasoned Expediter
Gregg, ChefD, again thanks for your insight.
I'm starting to get the picture. Chef, what you are saying is that your leased on but you are not a sub-contractor? Meaning you could hire a driver yourself to run your truck?
Also, does Bolt, Panther etc, require CDL for Sprinter? I would have no trouble acquiring one, but does having it restrict your hours of operation? I ask because I would like to be able to move my vehicle any time I want.
The other thing that concerns me is the Qualcomm equipment. I know from experience that adding or modifying new vehicles usually voids the warranty. The warranty is one of the main reasons why I would be going with a 2010 model.
Sprinter search update
Just spoke with a dealer. Best they could offer was MSRP on a 170wb 2500 w/ V1 option.
I'm starting to get the picture. Chef, what you are saying is that your leased on but you are not a sub-contractor? Meaning you could hire a driver yourself to run your truck?
Also, does Bolt, Panther etc, require CDL for Sprinter? I would have no trouble acquiring one, but does having it restrict your hours of operation? I ask because I would like to be able to move my vehicle any time I want.
The other thing that concerns me is the Qualcomm equipment. I know from experience that adding or modifying new vehicles usually voids the warranty. The warranty is one of the main reasons why I would be going with a 2010 model.
Sprinter search update
Just spoke with a dealer. Best they could offer was MSRP on a 170wb 2500 w/ V1 option.
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A warranty can not legally be voided for adding or modifying equipment. That is federal law. A warranty can be limited narrowly and specifically in certain cases for certain specifics based on added or modified equipment.
If you add some killer 1200 watt lunatic sound system and have brakes or transmission or other trouble the warranty must cover it unless it can be proven that the looney tunes was the direct and specific cause of the problem.
If you put in that system and have an electrical problem due to overload from that excessive wattage then yes, the warranty can be disallowed for that problem. It can not be voided for the entire vehicle however.
chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
Yes my van is leased to a company and i am their "Contractor" , i can in turn hire a driver if i wanted to, send that driver to the carriers orientation and then put him in the van..he is then the sub contractor in my van.
some companies require a cdl to drive even a cargo van, bolt does not. Having a CDL does not mean you have to follow DOT Hours of service rules...that is covered by the GVW of the truck, again once you go above 10,000 gvw, you then fall under the DOT rules, 10,000 lbs and under, the DOT has no control over the operation as to hours of service and such.
as for the QC, i can't speack to anyine but Bolt, but our new QC are totally portable and only plug into a 12 volt outlet, there are no holes drill at all as the antenna now just lays on the dash and there is no dome and not large scale wiring at all. As leo said, there is no voiding of a warranty with what we install as look as it is done right.
some companies require a cdl to drive even a cargo van, bolt does not. Having a CDL does not mean you have to follow DOT Hours of service rules...that is covered by the GVW of the truck, again once you go above 10,000 gvw, you then fall under the DOT rules, 10,000 lbs and under, the DOT has no control over the operation as to hours of service and such.
as for the QC, i can't speack to anyine but Bolt, but our new QC are totally portable and only plug into a 12 volt outlet, there are no holes drill at all as the antenna now just lays on the dash and there is no dome and not large scale wiring at all. As leo said, there is no voiding of a warranty with what we install as look as it is done right.
cspexpeditus
Seasoned Expediter
ChefD, awesome info thanks. Yeah I happened to notice someone's post of the QC equipped ontop of their ride, which is the reason I asked. Thanks for sharing your position as a cv driver. What you are doing sounds like the sort of position I'd like to be in. Also, probably a good way to start.
I have read the conversations where members talk about how company's operate a little differently than each other, and how those differences suit the driver's individual needs.
Being as inexperienced as I am to the industry, I really wouldn't know how to compare two companies. I have read others saying not to work for flat rates, not to lease on with more than one company at a time, not to take loads that leave you outside shipping lines, no to agree to load refusal policy, etc. I'm sure most of these things are decided with experience, but I don't want to start out by trying to reinvent the wheel.
LDB, thanks for letting me know, and what you're saying is completely logical. The problem is big corporations do not build their bottom lines up on logical or sound decisions that seem to benefit their customers beyond the point of sale. I know what you are saying is true, but when a manufacturer, say GM, decides to limit or void your warranty then there is really no recourse for a consumer unless you can legally hire an attorney. But most consumers can not simply hire an attorney because there is an arbitration agreement in place 99% of time. And small claims court lacks jurisdiction because there is a Federal warranty question or the property is worth more than 5k, well at least here in Florida. What's worse is when you have a lemon and your State attorney general's office eliminates their auto investigation team.
It is federal law, the Magnusson Moss Act. If a dealership gave trouble about an obviously legitimate warranty item it might be enough to have a direct conversation with the service manager or the general manager about violating federal law and the potential for recovery as opposed to just doing the work.
chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
cspexp wrote:
Ok the CDL thing was covered but the restriction of hours and being able to move your vehcile anytime you want needs a little explanation. Now i am not sure about how you meant this so ill cover it a few ways. While a 10,000 gvw vehcile does not fall under the DOT hours of service, some companies do limit your total hours and miles in one day...i am sure some drivers from those companies can soeak to the exact limits but I think those that do limit you limit you to 750 miles a day and 12 hrs, again i am not sure. Bolt will let a driver run as long as the driver feels he can do so safely...they do not impose any restrictions on CV's. Now a few companies also have to sit after a freight drop and they control where you move to after a certain amount of time as in a dead move. Again, I move whenever i feel like it and to where ever i want. Now when i move it is always done after talking to dispatch and finding out where we have had freight moving and if we have any cv's in that area and if so if i move there what "board" position will i have when i carry my dwell time there....
another move thing is taking off and going to the walmart for grocery shopping or to bufflo wild wings for dinner...some companies will "ding" you for that, again others don't and i move and go where ever i want without any problems. I have gone to races ball games and been able to watch it all at times, other times i have had to leave when i was called for a run....some companies want you to go out of service for that kind of stuff.
Ok with all of that said, everything i wrote about other companies is strictly based on what i have been told by other drivers and not my experience working for those companies....i have only worked for Bolt....so again hopefully other drivers for other companies can confirm or correct the info i just posted.
Ok the CDL thing was covered but the restriction of hours and being able to move your vehcile anytime you want needs a little explanation. Now i am not sure about how you meant this so ill cover it a few ways. While a 10,000 gvw vehcile does not fall under the DOT hours of service, some companies do limit your total hours and miles in one day...i am sure some drivers from those companies can soeak to the exact limits but I think those that do limit you limit you to 750 miles a day and 12 hrs, again i am not sure. Bolt will let a driver run as long as the driver feels he can do so safely...they do not impose any restrictions on CV's. Now a few companies also have to sit after a freight drop and they control where you move to after a certain amount of time as in a dead move. Again, I move whenever i feel like it and to where ever i want. Now when i move it is always done after talking to dispatch and finding out where we have had freight moving and if we have any cv's in that area and if so if i move there what "board" position will i have when i carry my dwell time there....
another move thing is taking off and going to the walmart for grocery shopping or to bufflo wild wings for dinner...some companies will "ding" you for that, again others don't and i move and go where ever i want without any problems. I have gone to races ball games and been able to watch it all at times, other times i have had to leave when i was called for a run....some companies want you to go out of service for that kind of stuff.
Ok with all of that said, everything i wrote about other companies is strictly based on what i have been told by other drivers and not my experience working for those companies....i have only worked for Bolt....so again hopefully other drivers for other companies can confirm or correct the info i just posted.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Leo, that doesn't cover modifications as you may think.
What I mean is if PJs (an example) installs the qualcomm and didn't take the switched or constant voltage off the upfitters tap but jumped a fuse (installs a tap off the fuse as they did with several installs for me) but now there is a problem with the body computer that the dealer traces if back to improper install and the use of an improper power source, then the warranty can be considered null for that problem and related repairs.
Each manufacturer, especially GM has bulletins on how to install radio equipment and other equipment which is meant to eliminate issues with hack jobs. MB also has bulletins on upfitting vehicles.
What I mean is if PJs (an example) installs the qualcomm and didn't take the switched or constant voltage off the upfitters tap but jumped a fuse (installs a tap off the fuse as they did with several installs for me) but now there is a problem with the body computer that the dealer traces if back to improper install and the use of an improper power source, then the warranty can be considered null for that problem and related repairs.
Each manufacturer, especially GM has bulletins on how to install radio equipment and other equipment which is meant to eliminate issues with hack jobs. MB also has bulletins on upfitting vehicles.
cspexpeditus
Seasoned Expediter
LDB, I agree with you on all points, and bringing an issue to the attention of the owner/GM does carry some weight. Short of turning this into any lengthy story, I will just say that I have traversed these routes and exhausted all options in my case. The law is very grey and sometimes even blind when it comes to statutory limitations of justice.
Basically, the magnuson-moss act says that a dealer or manufacturer must buy back a car if they can not fix it. It clearly says that the car must conform to the warranty during the warranted period.
Why is this important? Because the dealers have a "we can't recreate the problem" "these are normal vehicle characteristics" syndrome. Now the law is suppose to keep the consumer from having to continuously renturn to the dealer for repairs when they have already said they cant be fixed. The laws clearly say, that if the dealer can't or won't fix it after 3-4 attempts then they must buy the vehicle back.
The dealer knows this, but they stall because they also know that most customers aren't aware of the two-year statute of limitations. If you send written notification to the manufacturer within two years of purchase they must fix or buy the vehicle. But, if notice is not sent??? Well the magnuson-moss sets the time limit of notice at "the warranted period." However, the state statute trumps the federal statute by limiting that notice period to (2) years. And if notice is not sent within two years, then the dealer and manufacturer have nothing to worry about. They know this, and that is why they continue to give customers the run around by saying things like "could not recreate the problem, normal vehicle charateristics," etc.
Thank you for the indepth explanation. By your description, that is the kind of situation I would like to pursue. You see I plan to take advantage of the 'waiting' to excercise some of my other non-business related interests, and receiving a call for a run while in the middle of said interests would work out just fine for me.
I am sure drivers find their own unique and odd ways of entertaining themselves during the hours they wait. While I have never worked OTR, I was in a salary based route once and the hours of my day were my own. I liked having that freedom especially when I covered for other drivers on routes to places I hadn't been. I enjoy the travel but I do not think that the business of expediting is any vacation, however. I think you put it best when you said, "stopping in walmart."