Secession makes for strange bedfellows.
20 states have filed petitions to secede
- Thread starter Crazynuff
- Start date
Secession makes for strange bedfellows.
True but old Ron will be long gone before it ever happens.
I now consider myself to be a political dissident. This shift in my political thinking has been a long time coming. I no longer trust, like or believe in our Federal government. Nor do I believe either of the 2 major political parties intend to address problems in a serious way. The Democratic and Republican parties are all about ensuring their own incumbency where possible and consolidating power unto the Federal government machine. We must look beyond political parties for solutions. Our Federal government is thoroughly corrupt and cannot be fixed by conventional means.
I was surprised to see that Herman Cain called for the creation of a third party not too long ago.
Speaking of good ideas, secession by the states isn't one of them; leave it to Ron Paul to spout off one last bit of nonsense in his swansong. But seceding from the Republican party has a nice ring to it, and judging from the results of this recent presidential election about 2 million GOP voters already have.
It could very well be that in the coming weeks and months the stars could align to form a legitimate third party for true conservatives, not - as Cain said - the Paulites, but mainstream conservatives that are fed up with the Rockefeller Republicans and mushy moderates that have given us candidates and campaigns like Dole, McCain and Romney. Major media figures with large audiences like Cain, Limbaugh, Boortz, etc. would have to get on board in addition to business organizations and some serious money men. Not the fruitcakes like Trump, but guys like Sherman Alelson, Steve Forbes and Steve Wynn. There would also need to be some defections from the Republican party by current or former Governors like John Kasich or Mitch Daniels, some existing House and Senate members with influence - Thune, Rubio, Ryan or Artur Davis - younger men and women that would have appeal to younger voters and minorities, and from which a primary messenger would emerge. The Tea Party is too splintered and has too many nut cases in its fringe groups, same for the Libertarian or Green parties. This party doesn't exist right now, but a lot of disenfranchised conservatives are probably willing to listen to anyone willing to put some good ideas on the table.
Speaking of good ideas, secession by the states isn't one of them; leave it to Ron Paul to spout off one last bit of nonsense in his swansong. But seceding from the Republican party has a nice ring to it, and judging from the results of this recent presidential election about 2 million GOP voters already have.
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
Now, it depends on what criteria you consider makes up a conservative. You automatically brand Ron Paul and Libertarians loonies, but demand our loyalty... or wish for it in a close race. What exactly scares you about less government equaling more personal responsibility and self governance? Self-anointed conservatives like to talk this talk, but are unwilling to feast on the plate when it's laid before them. Is it possible that they only want people to do what THEY want? Or are they willing to put other peoples' rights ahead of their own push for morality, so everyone can experience true freedom from a bloated, intrusive government? One that is truly restricted by the states and the Constitution?
Conservatives and libertarians aren't the same philosophically, though closely related on economic issues. Libertarians don't seem to care much about social issues and that's where they lose me. Social issues define what a society will be. No society can exist without social parameters concerning how we conduct relationships within the family, community and State. Pretending social issues don't matter is foolish. Every society has a dominant culture which displays characteristics held in common.
It appears the socialist/liberal progressives are winning the culture war. On social issues, libertarians are more closely aligned with the Left. To a social conservative, this seems like an alliance between liberals and libertarians to deconstruct the pillars of Traditional America.
I can find a lot of common ground with libertarians on economic and fiscal policy.
It appears the socialist/liberal progressives are winning the culture war. On social issues, libertarians are more closely aligned with the Left. To a social conservative, this seems like an alliance between liberals and libertarians to deconstruct the pillars of Traditional America.
I can find a lot of common ground with libertarians on economic and fiscal policy.
cubansammich
Not a Member
This domineering, autocratic mindset is exactly why the Republican Party is all but dead. Those of you who scream about your precious freedoms being stolen are the same hypocrites who demand abortion and marriage be sanctioned by the government.
Well duh! Perhaps you should consider the origins of both terms LIB-eral and LIB-ertarian. They are one in the same.
Look at the silver haired old dudes the next time they are gathered for a State of the Union speech. We got a geriatric group hanging on there like IV bags in an emergency room. Get a grip , old dudes are just hanging on for whatever reason, imho. PS, guess what, I am an old dude and I see these guys in government with no new ideas, just old stuff. Ut oh, could be me , u think?
Age has little to do with their thinking. It is only about their power, greed and glory. There are plenty of people who are 60+ years old who have the ability to handle the job. Just as there are plenty in the 40 to 60 range. While there are plenty of good thinkers younger they tend not to have any real life experience to temper their thinking.
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
I would say conservatism and libertarianism are closer than you might think. It's your brand of conservatism that is adrift of libertarianism. When I think of conservatism, I think of Barry Goldwater, who was asked if gays should serve in the military. His answer... "Only if they can shoot straight."
It's not the government's position to demand certain social etiquettes be adhered to. It's not for us to say, "We believe in freedom, as long as you do it our way." Both the liberals AND neo-conservatives are that way, much to Cubansammich's dismay.
BTW Cuban, just because LIBeral and LIBertarian start the same, that doesn't mean they are the same. Just try telling a group of liberals that the government isn't paying for their VD medications, or funding their artist lifestyle. Tell them they're on their own, as it comes to the federal government... and tell California it's on its own too, as far as paying its way out of debt.
In a libertarian world, you reap what you sow. It forces one to THINK before they act. It allows for the wise to thrive.
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runrunner
Veteran Expediter
I don't think any State wants to lose those Federal Funds.
There is no such thing as "Federal Funds". There is only funds, taken from the People by the Federal Government, and then returned, with strings, to the States.
IF a state was to secede, it would then have it's own money, economy etc and all funds would stay in the state. Most states would likely come out ahead on that deal.
IF a state was to secede, it would then have it's own money, economy etc and all funds would stay in the state. Most states would likely come out ahead on that deal.
Texas would certainly be one. They pay in to the Federal government quite a bit more than they actually recieve back. As for a third party, maybe maybe not. That whole thing comes down to who has the money and who doesn't. When you have to have a billion dollars or more for a presidential race, that counts most small groups out.
The Federal Government is now no better than the Mob. They kill more and are involved with the same types of crimes. Like extortion, ponzie schemes and the use of force when needed. It gets worse with each passing years and has reached a new low now. We should ALL be ashamed for allowing this to happen.
cubansammich
Not a Member
Like many you confuse the modern day democrats with liberalism. Come back and talk to me when you know what true liberal is.
While I have no need to belong to a political party, no current political party defines me. I am conservative on some things, moderate on some and liberal on others. I am a conservative thinker with a social conscious. Any new party that I would support would have to do the following:
Term limits for politicians at the federal level
Sunset clauses for all bills/laws if not reviewed for goals achieved by a certain projected time
Single bills presented with the clear issue they are meant to address, a study of existing laws and why they don't address this issue, a means to pay for the bill, a projected expectation and date of sunset if it fails to meet the projected standard and no attachment of additional bills with it, thereby eliminating pork barrel spending.
Flat tax across the board for everyone, to include all businesses
A consumption tax, if you don't buy, you don't pay
Merge the IRS and the postal service, we can pay our taxes when we pick up our mail, no more mail delivery
One military service branch to eliminate wasteful spending on similar projects
Withdrawal of all military occupying forces back to the US, they hate ys anyway and can protect themselves and develop their own technology
That is enough for now.
Scott
Term limits for politicians at the federal level
Sunset clauses for all bills/laws if not reviewed for goals achieved by a certain projected time
Single bills presented with the clear issue they are meant to address, a study of existing laws and why they don't address this issue, a means to pay for the bill, a projected expectation and date of sunset if it fails to meet the projected standard and no attachment of additional bills with it, thereby eliminating pork barrel spending.
Flat tax across the board for everyone, to include all businesses
A consumption tax, if you don't buy, you don't pay
Merge the IRS and the postal service, we can pay our taxes when we pick up our mail, no more mail delivery
One military service branch to eliminate wasteful spending on similar projects
Withdrawal of all military occupying forces back to the US, they hate ys anyway and can protect themselves and develop their own technology
That is enough for now.
Scott
True liberals are those who founded this country. They believed that the PEOPLE were the ultimate power. They believed in the idea of self determination. They believed in States Rights. They believed in a small federal government with little domestic power. They were opposed to a heavy handed federal government. They were opposed to the idea of a 'ruling class'.
Almost everything that the Federal government, and this administration in particular, is doing today is what the Founders revolted against. Our government today is becoming dictatorial, oppressive and all powerful. They are out to control the People. Nothing they are doing today enhances freedom.
I know of no 'true liberals' in government. Only conservatives and ultra conservatives. In other words, what we revolted against in 1776. The liberal ideas that our Constitution is based on are dead.
bobwg
Expert Expediter
I generally agree with you except my thought I would rather stop anyone, government, group etc that want s to hurt/kill us before they leave their land, cave, terror camp, etc. why damage our own cities ,beaches and water to stop them.
AMonger
Veteran Expediter
It failed then because the tyrant Lincoln successfully goaded SC into firing the first shot. Had that not happened, Lincoln would have had trouble raising support for his war of aggression. There was plenty of resistance to it even as it was.