1/2 hour break still going smoothly

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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Sorry, but you haven't yet convinced me that participating in interstate commerce is a very good reason, our even a bad reason, for the FMCSA to regulate cargo vans.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
If that were true, then people wouldn't be talking about regulating cargo vans, because there is no reason, be it safety or control, to regulate them under the FMCSA. None. There are specific reasons the FMCSA regulates the vehicles it does, and not a single one of them apply to cargo vans.
That is correct, but it does not matter. FMCSA is not regulating for safeties sake, they are regulating to control. Van operations are not controlled enough, yet, they will be. I don't like it, it's wrong, but that is what is going on now. They don't need a reason and IF they can't find a way for FMCSA to control them, they will use Obama Care or some other vehicle of control.
 

beachbum

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
There is a very good reason to regulate them, they participate in interstate commerce.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using EO Forums mobile app

Did you know that the minute any company puts a trailer behind their company vehicle that vehicle now becomes a commercial vehicle. Haven't you noticed more and more pick up trucks pulling tractors or even garden equipment being pulled over and inspected by the DOT or local cops, I have.

Well in 3.5 years partially retiring from this trade and just going to work till I make 15K then take the rest of the year off. At that time the DOT can do what they want because I'll work local and not give a darn that some of you are cry babies about van drivers.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
My point by nagging you guys is you let it happen by your in action failure to respond you let it happen it is your fault

It's not that simple. It's not as if there are the rule makers and truckers only and that if only enough truckers rose up against the rule makers the truckers would prevail. There are numerous forces at work within the regulatory arena and numerous agendas. A lot of what goes on has little to do with trucking but it goes on anyway.

To illustrate my point, let me step back and look at something that does not immediately affect us like trucking regs do. Let's look at Unites States Postal Service (USPS) regulations.

Years ago, when I worked in the financial services industry, I used direct mail to advertise my services. I would hire a service that would create and mail advertising pieces to a zip code near my office. They included postage-paid return mail pieces, the kind where a permit was purchased and an account was set up to pay the return postage. You have seen those pieces. They have the permit info and number printed where the postage stamp would otherwise go.

Thinking that I might be able to save some money if I did some of the direct mail work myself instead of hiring a service to do it, I went to the post office and asked for a copy of the regulations. They gave me a book that was the same size as the Minneapolis telephone directory.

Undaunted, I took it home to study and figure out the rules as they applied to direct mail, but gave up after a few hours. The regs were peppered with cross references to other regs, written in bureaucratic jargon such that words that had common meanings had different meanings in the rules and written in a way that left a layman like me helpless before them. I had no choice but to use a direct mail service that knew the rules better than me.

"Why is it that way?" I asked the USPS person by telephone. After being transferred up the line a couple of times, the answer came. The USPS person explained that the direct mail rules get modified every time a new president is elected. People coming in want to reward the friends who helped them get there so the change the rules to favor them. Grateful for the information, but irked at the way that system disempowered me from doing my own direct-mail work, I gave up and continued to pay for direct mail services.

A change of a single word or sentance buried deep in complex rules can make a multi-million dollar difference to the various interests that use direct mail. It could be an exception for a particular product that may be deemed to serve the public good. It might be applying book rate to catalogs from big retailers but not from retailers who do not use union labor to print the catalogs. It might be packaging and sorting requirements that favor the manufacturers of the machines that do the packaging and sorting. It might be one or more of many, many things. But whatever it is, it gets done by manipulating the fine print behind the scenes.

As with the USPS, so too with most if not all other government agencies. The rules are changed often but with little regard to readability and use by ordinary citizens. They are complex for a reason. The more complex the rules are, the easier it is for lobbyists to work behind the scenes to get new rules and new legislation passed. It is often the case that the lobbyists themselves write the proposed rules to "assist" the rule makers in doing their work.

There are numerous special interests at work in the rulemaking process, many with conflicting agendas and they are perpetually at war with each other. They hire lobbyists to do the fighting and those lobbyists earn their keep by winning favorable government benefits for their patrons. Whether new regulations are needed or not and what the benefits of them may be to the public at large is a secondary issue. With lobbyists getting paid big, big money to bring home the benefits, regulation for regulation sake becomes the norm. And that is part of why we see the bureaucratic hyperactivity and increasing reach we see today.

In the transportation industry, truckers are but one voice among many in the rule making and legislative process. It is an oversimplification to say that we have the rules we have today because truckers let it happen.

If truckers rose with one voice and all wrote their elected officials and all participated in mass demonstrations and made lots of news and lots of noise to advocate for a two-year moratorium in rule making -- a time out of sorts -- it would be fiercely fought by the special interests who benefit greatly by operating behind the scenes from their ability to change and benefit from the rule changes. Among the fighters would be our elected officials.

It is an appealing concept; a two-year time out from new rules. Focus instead on administrative excellence and financial efficiency. Give enforcement officials time to train up on the existing rules and learn how to enforce them in a uniform fashion. Save money by not having to republish and retrain all the time. Give carriers and drivers time to learn and adapt to the new rules. Allow a healthy status quo to develop. Let's take a peaceful pause. It's not like we don't have enough rules now. Let's give rule making a rest for two years.

Political insiders would fiercely fight that. Campaign contributions do not come in if there is not a good fight in progress. Lobbyists don't get paid if no new benefits can be delivered in a time-out period.

Layoutshooter is correct. Rule making for rule making's sake has become the norm, partly because very powerful people and groups benefit from that very thing.
 
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cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
You the American people are supposed to control Congress ...you let it get out of Control... Our soldiers are fighting dying bloodletting to help keep our freedom and you guys are just giving it away

As THawk says, many, many drivers [including this one] told FMCSA how ill conceived and counterproductive the change in HOS was, and nearly 10 years later, they're only making it worse. Apparently, Gov Rick Perry isn't the only one who believes "The more they scream, the more we know we're doing the right thing". Opposition = affirmation, when politicians choose to serve their own agenda.
PS When you figure out how to motivate apathetic people who don't know or care what our elected leaders are doing, please share it with us - we're in over our heads here.
:mad:
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
As THawk says, many, many drivers [including this one] told FMCSA how ill conceived and counterproductive the change in HOS was, and nearly 10 years later, they're only making it worse. Apparently, Gov Rick Perry isn't the only one who believes "The more they scream, the more we know we're doing the right thing". Opposition = affirmation, when politicians choose to serve their own agenda.
PS When you figure out how to motivate apathetic people who don't know or care what our elected leaders are doing, please share it with us - we're in over our heads here.
:mad:

EVERY career politician, and likely most politicians, are out ONLY for their own agenda and power, regardless of party. That goes for Obama, Bush and whom ever tries to take their place. NONE of them have the "good of the People" in their hearts. The more extreme, left or right, they are, the worse they are.

Right now, in national politics, it is the extreme left running things. There is almost NO middle of the road, few right wing and even fewer extreme right wingers. Not that it matters. All extremes are bad. ALL extremes seek to destroy the Constitution and take the power away from the People.

Also, in many cases, the determination of who is, or who is not apathetic, is determined by the political bend of the person making that determination.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
EVERY career politician, and likely most politicians, are out ONLY for their own agenda and power, regardless of party. That goes for Obama, Bush and whom ever tries to take their place. NONE of them have the "good of the People" in their hearts. The more extreme, left or right, they are, the worse they are.

Right now, in national politics, it is the extreme left running things. There is almost NO middle of the road, few right wing and even fewer extreme right wingers. Not that it matters. All extremes are bad. ALL extremes seek to destroy the Constitution and take the power away from the People.

Also, in many cases, the determination of who is, or who is not apathetic, is determined by the political bend of the person making that determination.

Uh... the extreme right wing are the classical liberals, true conservatives, and libertarians... not the warmongering neo-cons.
 

xiggi

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Gonna be time for a move to the soapbox soon.

Sent from my Fisher Price ABC-123.
 
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