Wrong turn to Mexico
- Thread starter Lawrence
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I blame the Ammo supplier. You did notice the drivers name. AKEEM!!!! That say's it all.
It doesn't say too much... I met guys, american born with very american names, which changed their religion and names...
Just as an example... this name, Cassius Clay tells you something?
What ever you want to believe. I DEFY you to come to my house, take one my rifles or handguns, put just a bullet in in and get it to fire. It will NEVER happen.
The beer is on me!
Nothing like a good ice cold beer and a "hunker" around a hot bon fire to loosen up the ole definitions!Commonly used 'definitions' are NOT always correct. Even IF some idiot put them in a dictionary.
Sorry it is what it is.
(no beer or hunker until the guns are put away, firearms and booze don't mix! Experiments first, fun after)
mrgoodtude
Not a Member
I didn't call you names and I am not always nasty with you..
Starting to seem however you are wrapped a little too tight lately.
Starting to seem however you are wrapped a little too tight lately.
Best think back, but I forgive you.
I am not wrapped at all, I wear clothes, but use buttons and belts.
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Intrigued, I looked into the HAZMAT and placarding issue. Notice in the news story photos the ORM-D lables on the ammo cans. Then turn to the Hazardous Materials Table in your Hazardout Materials Compliance Pocketbook. You will see that cartridges in hazard class ORM-D do not require placards.
Regarding the difference between ammunition and bullets, it is a distinction without a difference. If I went into a sports store and said I wanted to buy ammunition for a rifle, the clerks would send me to the same counter if I said bullets for a rifle; and the clerk at the counter would sell them to me without questioning the difference. The rounds that go in a particular rifle are the same whether it they are called bullets or ammo.
There may be technical specifics that matter to some people like they do to Layoutshooter but I would not in any way use that to fault the reporter who is covering this story. One of the reasons reporters get things wrong is because they are often put on stories in which they have little or no background information or education.
For example, I write a little about expediting and generally get it right. But if a story broke about say farm fertilizer and I was assigned to cover it with no notice, I would not have the contextual knowldedge to understand what people I interviewed were talking about. So if someone I interviewed called something Item X, I would call it Item X in my reporting and could very well miss the fact that Item X is a slang term that can be widely misunderstood and the true name for Item X would be better to use. I'd probably get it right after more research and work on the story but with deadline pressures with late breaking news, the luxury of time does not exist.
I spoke today by telephone with Alejendro Martinez, the El Paso Times reporter who is working this story. I called him to let him know about Truck Writers of North America. TWNA is a professional organization of reporters and writers who cover the trucking industry. Part of TWNA's purpose is to serve as a resource organization for journalists who are not familiar with trucking. TWNA works with journalists to help them understand that the headline should not read Trucker Kills Mother and Two Children when it was the mother who rear ended a parked truck.
Mr. Martiniz covers immigration and border issues for the paper but now finds himself in the middle of a story that is also a truck story. In my conversation with him I found him to be not a shoddy reporter but exactly the opposite. He was very interested to hear from me and wanted to know official sources he could contact to run down the trucking aspects of this story. He speaks Spanish, interviews people in Mexico and reports in English to make the story available to English-only readers like me.
The man is a professional, putting may hours into the story and working hard to get it right. It is a reach to distrust him over the difference between ammo and bullets when, as a practical matter, everyone understands that the word he used referrs to the items shown in the photos that accompanyed the story.
Notice too that he used the word bullets only three times in the piece and referred to the cargo as ammunition or ammo many more times. While it is perhaps true that Martinez does not know the difference between bullets and ammo, it is also true that only the most serious of gun people would.
Faulting him for saying "bullets" would be like me faulting you for reporting that you, a professional driver, own a car when automobile is the more accurate term. But there is no need to fault him or you because the context makes the meaning of the words clear. Car or automobile, bullets or ammo, it does not matter because the context makes it clear what the words refer to.
Regarding the difference between ammunition and bullets, it is a distinction without a difference. If I went into a sports store and said I wanted to buy ammunition for a rifle, the clerks would send me to the same counter if I said bullets for a rifle; and the clerk at the counter would sell them to me without questioning the difference. The rounds that go in a particular rifle are the same whether it they are called bullets or ammo.
There may be technical specifics that matter to some people like they do to Layoutshooter but I would not in any way use that to fault the reporter who is covering this story. One of the reasons reporters get things wrong is because they are often put on stories in which they have little or no background information or education.
For example, I write a little about expediting and generally get it right. But if a story broke about say farm fertilizer and I was assigned to cover it with no notice, I would not have the contextual knowldedge to understand what people I interviewed were talking about. So if someone I interviewed called something Item X, I would call it Item X in my reporting and could very well miss the fact that Item X is a slang term that can be widely misunderstood and the true name for Item X would be better to use. I'd probably get it right after more research and work on the story but with deadline pressures with late breaking news, the luxury of time does not exist.
I spoke today by telephone with Alejendro Martinez, the El Paso Times reporter who is working this story. I called him to let him know about Truck Writers of North America. TWNA is a professional organization of reporters and writers who cover the trucking industry. Part of TWNA's purpose is to serve as a resource organization for journalists who are not familiar with trucking. TWNA works with journalists to help them understand that the headline should not read Trucker Kills Mother and Two Children when it was the mother who rear ended a parked truck.
Mr. Martiniz covers immigration and border issues for the paper but now finds himself in the middle of a story that is also a truck story. In my conversation with him I found him to be not a shoddy reporter but exactly the opposite. He was very interested to hear from me and wanted to know official sources he could contact to run down the trucking aspects of this story. He speaks Spanish, interviews people in Mexico and reports in English to make the story available to English-only readers like me.
The man is a professional, putting may hours into the story and working hard to get it right. It is a reach to distrust him over the difference between ammo and bullets when, as a practical matter, everyone understands that the word he used referrs to the items shown in the photos that accompanyed the story.
Notice too that he used the word bullets only three times in the piece and referred to the cargo as ammunition or ammo many more times. While it is perhaps true that Martinez does not know the difference between bullets and ammo, it is also true that only the most serious of gun people would.
Faulting him for saying "bullets" would be like me faulting you for reporting that you, a professional driver, own a car when automobile is the more accurate term. But there is no need to fault him or you because the context makes the meaning of the words clear. Car or automobile, bullets or ammo, it does not matter because the context makes it clear what the words refer to.
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LOL!! Some of what you say is correct there Phil, BUT, not all.
IF you went into a REAL sporting goods store, not WallMart or Dunhams, more like the one my cousin owns and asked for 'bullets' he would ask you some questions like:
What caliber? Boattail? Hollow point? Soft Point? What Grain? How many? And MANY others.
IF you asked for say, rifle ammunition, he and I, would ask many similar and DIFFERENT questions like:
Magnum? How many grains of powder? etc, Those questions are in ADDITION to those asked about the bullets ONLY.
The ORM-D classification is going away. It was used for trucks carrying retail hazmat so as not to scare the pants off of Suzy and Sam homemaker. It was NOT only used for ammo.
One other little FACT few know. Smokeless powder is NOT an explosive, it does burn VERY fast, but does NOT explode. Most MODERN ammunition is made with smokeless powder. ALSO, shotgun ammunition loaded with bird shot or buck shot does NOT have bullets. Neither does some rifle and pistol ammunition loaded with what is called 'bird or rat shot'.
Black powder, and some of it substitutes DO explode.
IF you went into a REAL sporting goods store, not WallMart or Dunhams, more like the one my cousin owns and asked for 'bullets' he would ask you some questions like:
What caliber? Boattail? Hollow point? Soft Point? What Grain? How many? And MANY others.
IF you asked for say, rifle ammunition, he and I, would ask many similar and DIFFERENT questions like:
Magnum? How many grains of powder? etc, Those questions are in ADDITION to those asked about the bullets ONLY.
The ORM-D classification is going away. It was used for trucks carrying retail hazmat so as not to scare the pants off of Suzy and Sam homemaker. It was NOT only used for ammo.
One other little FACT few know. Smokeless powder is NOT an explosive, it does burn VERY fast, but does NOT explode. Most MODERN ammunition is made with smokeless powder. ALSO, shotgun ammunition loaded with bird shot or buck shot does NOT have bullets. Neither does some rifle and pistol ammunition loaded with what is called 'bird or rat shot'.
Black powder, and some of it substitutes DO explode.
mrgoodtude
Not a Member
I just don't understand hijacking the thread to passionately argue semantics.
I see what you are saying. Let me TRY to explain.
I don't see it as 'semantics'. I see it as lazy work, shoddy work. I don't trust those who do shoddy and lazy work. I therefor don't trust anything that they say or do.
Shoddy and lazy reporting has lead to a lot of bullshootski about MANY important issues, issues that people VOTE one, have NO idea in the world about what they are voting about. Like the difference between an 'automatic and a semi-automatic" firearm. The "lame stream media sees them as the same.
THAT is why I question the writers ability.
OK. that is your right and you have made your statement. Now I'll make mine.
I want readers to know that I have confidence in Mr. Martinez' reporting. This comes from reading the stories he wrote about the ammo truck that crossed into Mexico and from talking with him by phone. He strikes me as a conscientious professional who is working hard to get the story right.
Phil,
I have NO reason to argue with you, nor do I want to. I do NOT respect inaccurate reporting. No matter how small the mistake. Mistakes, no matter if intentional or not, have lead to the mess we are in today.
IF he would like to talk to me, I am willing. MAYBE some good can come out of this.
EXAMPLE of ANOTHER 'mistake' (lie) that has lead to serious problems.
Can anyone name ONE species in North America, that has been made extinct by sport hunting? Many may claim that there is ONE, but it would be WRONG. Yet, many vote against modern wildlife management, based on that 'mistake', (lie) and do serious damage to real efforts to protect habitat and REAL efforts to insure that we have wildlife around for our grandkids.
Reality is IMPORTANT. Terms are IMPORTANT. Our Founding Fathers were anal about insuring that the RIGHT word was used in their writing. EVERY journalist should strive for the same.
Just as I thought.
Kinda like the BULLOOONEY I heard when Cheney had a hunting accident.
LIKE: (heard this ALL on Fox. Can't say I only pick on NBC, etc)
They may have to remove the, get this, "the shotgun shell, from his face"
"You mean those 'bullets' are that small?"
"Of course you need a hunting license to hunt quail, anytime a 'deadly weapon is used you need a license"
Yep, accuracy is of NO importance when reporting is involved.
Trust this guy? Ain't gonna happen.
Kinda like the BULLOOONEY I heard when Cheney had a hunting accident.
LIKE: (heard this ALL on Fox. Can't say I only pick on NBC, etc)
They may have to remove the, get this, "the shotgun shell, from his face"
"You mean those 'bullets' are that small?"
"Of course you need a hunting license to hunt quail, anytime a 'deadly weapon is used you need a license"
Yep, accuracy is of NO importance when reporting is involved.
Trust this guy? Ain't gonna happen.
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mrgoodtude
Not a Member
Do I need to get some more popcorn?
Never mind, I forgive you...
Never mind, I forgive you...
So much for intelligent conversation. About what I expected from someone who would call a fellow poster a "POC".
mrgoodtude
Not a Member
Yawn
I can't believe your still beating this to death..
Let it go
I can't believe your still beating this to death..
Let it go
Just as I thought. I expected nothing less. Go to bed if you are THAT tired. What a joke. Nothing new out there.
Of course you MUST deny that you once called me a "POC", don't you? Got away with that one.
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mrgoodtude
Not a Member
I call shenanigans! How can you call me a "Joke and Unintelligent" in an open forum and get away with it?
Do you DENY that you once called me a "POC"? IN an open forum? Do a search. Or,do you think it is OKEE DOKEE to call me a "POC" just because you don't like what I do?
JOKE? Yep.
OR,
It is OKEE DOKEE, for some and not others. I DARE you to prove me wrong.
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