Wow..a whole 370!!

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Feds arrest 370 immigrants in 10-state bust

The Associated Press rapidcityjournal.com | Posted: Friday, August 27, 2010 1:00 pm

CHICAGO -- Federal officials in Chicago say they've have arrested 370 convicted illegal immigrants and immigration fugitives in a three-day bust in 10 Midwest states.

In a news release Friday, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement says some of the people arrested included gang members and sex offenders.

The operation ended Thursday and arrests were made in Illinois, Indiana, Wisconsin, Kansas, Missouri, Michigan and Ohio. Other arrests were made in Iowa, Minnesota and Nebraska. Officials initially said arrests also were made in South Dakota but later removed that state from the list.

ICE Director John Morton is in Chicago to talk about the arrests at an afternoon news conference.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Big news, Feds are hard at work rounding up illegals, in the Midwest, where it's a significant problem.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
More states, bigger news, bigger illusion that they're hard at work.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I know a catfish hole in Michigan where you can get 25 or 30 a night if you wanted too. Not catfish, illegals. Catfish are easier to catch.
 

pjjjjj

Veteran Expediter
I know a catfish hole in Michigan where you can get 25 or 30 a night if you wanted too. Not catfish, illegals. Catfish are easier to catch.

But hey! What if they had one of those nifty vans with the xray equipment so they could see the illegals hiding out? Oops, but then that would infringe upon your rights, sorry!

I guess I'm having a hard time merging two veins of thought.. and it's not just Americans.. except you guys are a lot more vocal about your rights, at least the people on EO seem to be..

We're too soft.. and yet we're too hard..

Like.. complain about the illegals, but balk at a system that could do just that.. why? because they might be able to see what you have in your truck and that would infringe upon your rights..

Complain about the criminals but complain about some of the means used to catch them..

Complain about innocents getting murdered, but complain about the criminals' machine guns being taken away, because in so doing, you're going to get YOURS taken away too..

Complain about the terrible 4wheeler drivers, but complain about the cops who park behind just behind the top of a hill trying to catch them driving badly because it's entrapment..

Complain about criminals who just take off to escape from the police stopping them, but disallow the police to go after them because they might harm someone in the process..

Complain about people owning pitbulls because the dogs are mutilating innocent people.. but become outraged when they're banned (in Ontario Canada!)..

Complain about horrible crimes, but feel bad about killing the perps and give them 7 years instead..

Joe Pigfarmer is killing and burying many women on his property, but they don't have enough reasonable grounds of suspicion to enter his property..

Where does the line get drawn?
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The line is MY freedom. It is my birthright. The borders should be controlled. You won't understand, I won't argue. You don't believe as I do and never will. I would rather DIE than live life as a slave to a government.

Under our Constitution the PEOPLE control the government. That is freedom. It is an idea. That WE are are own masters, not Washington. NOTHING is worth losing freedom for. NOTHING!!

I can take care of those illegals at that catfish hole. OUR government will NOT do the job that they should be doing. I don't NEED to give up freedom. THEY need to do what they are hired to do. All they need do is come down there with me and arrest every one of them.

I guess you just had to be born to it to understand. Sorry you don't.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Like.. complain about the illegals, but balk at a system that could do just that.. why? because they might be able to see what you have in your truck and that would infringe upon your rights..

Well sort of. The chances of mass amounts of invaders sitting in vans and trucks is slim and law enforcement is more or less looking for anything that they can catch people with. Our system of law is not innocent until proven guilty but more or less a mess with the cottage industry built up around lawyer's rights.

Complain about the criminals but complain about some of the means used to catch them..

No complaints.

Complain about innocents getting murdered, but complain about the criminals' machine guns being taken away, because in so doing, you're going to get YOURS taken away too..

Well also sort of. The use of Machine Guns in a crime is not what many in the world think it is. You have a better chance of getting killed with one in Europe than here. The criminal isn't the focus of gun control, the citizen is because it does two fold to the citizen when guns are regulated, it lessens their ability to defend themselves and it leads to a tyrannical government.

Complain about the terrible 4wheeler drivers, but complain about the cops who park behind just behind the top of a hill trying to catch them driving badly because it's entrapment..

Actually I don't complain about it, others do because they don't want to get caught.

Complain about criminals who just take off to escape from the police stopping them, but disallow the police to go after them because they might harm someone in the process..

Actually another one I don't complain about, I want the cops to shoot the person who runs, it is simpler for everyone involved, especially if that person causes an injury or death of someone while running.

Complain about people owning pitbulls because the dogs are mutilating innocent people.. but become outraged when they're banned (in Ontario Canada!)..

Well I can't complain about it for two reasons, 1 - I know someone who was killed by a pack of them (Detroit has a big problem with dog packs) and 2 - witnessing the neighbors pit bull who was actually a nice dog take 15 shotgun blasts and 7 9mm rounds by a sort of over zealous cop causes me to have mixed feelings about it.

Complain about horrible crimes, but feel bad about killing the perps and give them 7 years instead..

I don't feel bad, never do, let me pull the switch.

Joe Pigfarmer is killing and burying many women on his property, but they don't have enough reasonable grounds of suspicion to enter his property..

The law is a bit more easier than the movies and tv programs lead you to believe.

Where does the line get drawn?

I think there are two ways of looking at things. The first is that society has devolved, once it was about protecting society and criminals were just that, criminals but now we have to understand what made them do it - most of the blame seems to be something to do with racism (which I can't seem to find), poverty or just being stupid.

And the second thing seems to be that we forgot that a criminal really doesn't have a debt to society but a debt to the victim(s). As much as we are an enlighten bunch, other cultures who we d*mn and hate seem to think that the way for any debt to be paid is with the inclusion of the victim or their family to determine sentence. For example some one kills one of my family members and I can reconcile with what happen, being a good Christian I will forgive the person for that. When he goes to court and faces the judge, I will have a direct bearing to whether he will pay the price or at what degree his sentence can be at. This is his debt to my family who is directly impacted by his actions.
 
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pjjjjj

Veteran Expediter
The line is MY freedom. It is my birthright. The borders should be controlled. You won't understand, I won't argue. You don't believe as I do and never will. I would rather DIE than live life as a slave to a government.

Under our Constitution the PEOPLE control the government. That is freedom. It is an idea. That WE are are own masters, not Washington. NOTHING is worth losing freedom for. NOTHING!!

I can take care of those illegals at that catfish hole. OUR government will NOT do the job that they should be doing. I don't NEED to give up freedom. THEY need to do what they are hired to do. All they need do is come down there with me and arrest every one of them.

I guess you just had to be born to it to understand. Sorry you don't.

And I guess you are having difficulty seeing your own contradictions.

Another thing I find especially confusing.. specifically about you more than the rest, layoutshooter, is that you were self reportedly involved with some aspect of your government's 'intelligence' activities..

As such, wouldn't you know, more than others, that some of the spying stuff that goes on by your government happens to be some of the same stuff which has in fact protected your freedoms?
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
But hey! What if they had one of those nifty vans with the xray equipment so they could see the illegals hiding out? Oops, but then that would infringe upon your rights, sorry!
Exactly. It would be one thing if they peered into the van or truck and saw people, and those people were illegals, and every time they peered into a truck or van and saw people that those people were illegals, every single time, but all it takes is once where those people aren't illegals for it to be an illegal search and seizure and an invasion of privacy.

Like.. complain about the illegals, but balk at a system that could do just that.. why? because they might be able to see what you have in your truck and that would infringe upon your rights..
You're assuming the motives of the people with the xray equipment is righteous and pure, and that their ethics and morals are such that they will not, ever, under any circumstances abuse it and use it for something other than to search for illegals. Human nature, and history, has proven without a shadow of a doubt that whatever those in power have at their disposal will be abused. In order to justify the stopping of someone when no real reason exists, evidence can be planted to "manufacture" a case against someone. Corrupt law enforcement even working within the legal rights of citizens have perpetrated all kinds of abuses. Imagine if they had a free hand to do as they will.

Complain about the criminals but complain about some of the means used to catch them..
If those means violate the rights of innocents, you betcha.

Complain about innocents getting murdered, but complain about the criminals' machine guns being taken away, because in so doing, you're going to get YOURS taken away too..
If you snapped your fingers and suddenly all guns of all kinds just disappeared, murders would not suddenly cease. There are too many examples of murders throughout history that didn't include any type of firearm to list here, but suffice it to say that if all guns were eliminated, murders would not cease. The government would certainly have the upper hand on its citizens at that point, tho. The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. There is no wiggle room there.

Complain about the terrible 4wheeler drivers, but complain about the cops who park behind just behind the top of a hill trying to catch them driving badly because it's entrapment..
Not really entrapment. Entrapment is enticing someone who would otherwise not break the law, to break the law. Catching someone in the act of breaking the law isn't entrapment.

Complain about criminals who just take off to escape from the police stopping them, but disallow the police to go after them because they might harm someone in the process..
I would hate to be run over and killed while crossing the street because the police is involved in a high speed chase going after someone who robbed a bank. I would have to be involved in a 17 car accident with multiple injuries and deaths because of a high speed chase after some guy who committed any crime, even murder. The lives of innocent people aren't worth catching the guy right now, as opposed to catching him a little later, or for that matter letting get away.

Complain about people owning pitbulls because the dogs are mutilating innocent people.. but become outraged when they're banned (in Ontario Canada!)..
That's throwing the baby out with the bath water. That's wanting to kill, or at least deport, all Muslims because a handful of them flew planes into the World Trade Center. That's wanting to ban all handguns because a few people with handguns use them to kill people. That's wanting to ban horseback riding because Superman had his spinal cord crushed in a fall off a horse.

Complain about horrible crimes, but feel bad about killing the perps and give them 7 years instead..
Down here, many states still have the death penalty. Most complain when someone who deserves the death penalty doesn't get it. Even those who get it, people complain that death doesn't come for 10 or 20 years after being sentenced to death.

Joe Pigfarmer is killing and burying many women on his property, but they don't have enough reasonable grounds of suspicion to enter his property..
If they don't have enough reasonable suspicion, then they don't know that Joe Pigfarmer is killing and burying anyone. Just because someone says Joe Pigfarmer is killing people, that doesn't mean his is, and it is not evidence that he is. If someone says he is, and the police go and check it out and find that he isn't, then his right to be left alone, among other rights, have been violated by The State. If they find he's not killing anyone, but find a few marijuana plants on his property, the fact that growing marijuana is a crime doesn't in any way excuse the fact that his Constitutional rights have been violated, such as the right to privacy, the right to unreasonable search and seizure, and the right be to secure in their person. Otherwise, the police could barge in to your home at any time for any reason and there's nothing you can do about it.

Where does the line get drawn?
At the top of Page One of the US Constitution. Don't mess with anything below that line.
 
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pjjjjj

Veteran Expediter
At the top of Page One of the US Constitution. Don't mess with anything below that line.

Then how about we all stop complaining about the perceived injustices which occur in our countries because to have justice, we're always going to be infringing on somebody's rights.

If we can't chase the criminals when they run because we might hurt an innocent, the criminals have free reign, don't they? And they know it.

Here, an officer can't hide with his radar gun because it's entrapment.

We can't kill convicted killers because we may have made a mistake in convicting him.

We have a world summit, protect the world leaders, arrest the bad guys, and then get sued for arresting them.

The world is just nuts and so are all the people in it.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Then how about we all stop complaining about the perceived injustices which occur in our countries because to have justice, we're always going to be infringing on somebody's rights.
No, not always. I know it's easy and popular to say that all laws infringe on someone's rights, but that's not necessarily the case. People don't have the right to harm someone else without consequences. They certainly have the right to harm someone, but they have to pay the price that society sets for doing so, and that price doesn't necessarily infringe on a right. Sure, going to prison deprives you of liberty, but you knew the price to be paid for committing the crime. You risked giving up your liberty when you decided to commit a crime that could result in your liberty being taken away.

If we can't chase the criminals when they run because we might hurt an innocent, the criminals have free reign, don't they? And they know it.
Well, no. They might have free reign for a few moments, but they know they are a fugitive and are likely to be pursued, just not at high speed. How many innocents can be hurt or killed that would justify catching the criminal if, in fact, the person running was the one that committed the crime, and not running because he's been doing a cop's wife and he's afraid that the cop that is chasing him is the husband.

Here, an officer can't hide with his radar gun because it's entrapment.
It's that way down here in a few states, too. In Ohio they can't even sit there at night unless they are in plain sight with their headlights on.

In Tennessee, though, they'll sit in the middle in the dark with their lights off and will flip the radar on and off as cars go by, rather than leaving the radar gun on all the time.

But it's not really entrapment. Ensnarement, perhaps, but not entrapment.

Officer: "Why were you going so fast?"

Driver: "Because I didn't know you were there. Duh."


We can't kill convicted killers because we may have made a mistake in convicting him.
That's a strong argument. In order to sentence someone to death, there can't be any question at all to his guilt to innocence. Better to set 10 guilty men free than to kill an innocent man. We've had many people who where put to death be later exonerated of the crime. There are those, however, where there is no doubt whatsoever that they committed the crime, and there is nothing that could ever possibly exonerate them at a later date.

We have a world summit, protect the world leaders, arrest the bad guys, and then get sued for arresting them.
Hey, might as well sue. You might win.

The world is just nuts and so are all the people in it.
Pretty much. Fupped, every one of us.
 
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