We as truck drivers ARE part of the public. We have as much right to strike as the UAW, the writers in California, major league baseball players and other pro (millionaire!!!) athletes. Lets not forget you hockey fans and others just to make a point that there was a whole season missed recently because of a strike. If we want to park our trucks we have as much right as Humpty Dumpty wanting to sit on that damn wall!
Would you be willing to shut down??
- Thread starter are12
- Start date
We as truck drivers ARE part of the public. We have as much right to strike as the UAW, the writers in California, major league baseball players and other pro (millionaire!!!) athletes. Lets not forget you hockey fans and others just to make a point that there was a whole season missed recently because of a strike. If we want to park our trucks we have as much right as Humpty Dumpty wanting to sit on that damn wall!
greg334
Veteran Expediter
OK, I understand what your saying but let' s be a little realistic here.
1 - the UAW has a strike fund - let's put into the pot $500 each every month to build up a strike fund, or maybe $1500 a month would be better. When a strike happens, it takes money out of the mouths of people and does not pay the bills.
2 - the writers, who are just a bunch of greedy fill in the blank that work in a system that they get paid for doing one job and most do it poorly. They want more, they want to be paid outside of what they were paid for in the first place - greed. Well Ok, let's demand that what freight we haul, we get a percentage of the profits the company makes off of that freight. Sounds great right? how long do you think our jobs would last in an anti-American system like that.
3 - Oh major league baseball players strike, what a joke that is. Ok you are part of 750 or so people who are part of an exclusive all mens club (yes that was meant to be sexist because it is true) and you don't like the millions that you are being paid, you want more? You strike and at the same time the congress protects your industry with anti-trust exemption. I would like to see the same thing applied to the trucking industry, it would lets a New York minute.
We all have the right to say no we are not working, but if you put into a proper perspective, you can see that shutting down for any reason is a bad thing to do at this time. The one thing that I don't think has been mentions is that this is a company/shipper market, there are far too many trucks in the market to serve the freight and when something like this idea is brought up, then the losers are the ones who shut down and didn't make any money.
I agree with a few who are watching the industry, maybe the $5 a gallon price is a good thing for a while, maybe it will shake the industry out and the people who can survive will, and those who can't won't and this will bring back an equilibrium to the entire industry.
An exerpt from Bloomberg....you can see Gregs point it's not all about the oil...the U.S dollar has alot to do woth it....
You can also see that the lack of useage is making them slow production to keep profit margins up....
Striking will only cause them to slow down even more to maintain profits.
Profit Margins
The profit margin, or crack spread, for making three barrels of crude oil into one of heating oil and two of gasoline fell to $7.395 a barrel on March 17, the lowest since November, based on futures prices. The margin is at $11.7528 today. The crack for making a barrel of crude oil into one of gasoline was negative on March 17.
``Refinery runs were down a lot because margins were close to zero,'' said Brian Gambill, who helps manage $18 billion at Manning & Napier Advisors Inc. in Rochester, New York. ``U.S. demand was fairly weak. You have demand in emerging markets, which is subsidized, supporting the energy market.''
Valero Energy Corp., the largest U.S. refiner, said this week that output from its catalytic cracking units, the primary gasoline-making devices at its 15 U.S. refineries, has been reduced to 73 percent because of ``uneconomic'' margins.
Total implied fuel demand averaged 20.3 million barrels a day in the past four weeks, down 2.2 percent from a year earlier, the Energy Department report showed.
You can also see that the lack of useage is making them slow production to keep profit margins up....
Striking will only cause them to slow down even more to maintain profits.
Profit Margins
The profit margin, or crack spread, for making three barrels of crude oil into one of heating oil and two of gasoline fell to $7.395 a barrel on March 17, the lowest since November, based on futures prices. The margin is at $11.7528 today. The crack for making a barrel of crude oil into one of gasoline was negative on March 17.
``Refinery runs were down a lot because margins were close to zero,'' said Brian Gambill, who helps manage $18 billion at Manning & Napier Advisors Inc. in Rochester, New York. ``U.S. demand was fairly weak. You have demand in emerging markets, which is subsidized, supporting the energy market.''
Valero Energy Corp., the largest U.S. refiner, said this week that output from its catalytic cracking units, the primary gasoline-making devices at its 15 U.S. refineries, has been reduced to 73 percent because of ``uneconomic'' margins.
Total implied fuel demand averaged 20.3 million barrels a day in the past four weeks, down 2.2 percent from a year earlier, the Energy Department report showed.
Point taken. That is a different issue altogether.
That answer was given in repsonse to your comment that you were pulling money out of reserves to pay for fuel. You have corrected that statement and I now understand you are not pulling money out of reserves to pay for fuel.
Yes, it is true that some drivers are out there trying to support a home and family. It is also true, as I stated in another post, that some drivers are out here literally going hungry.
Just as the rain does not care if you get wet, the industry does not care if you prosper or starve. People may feel bad for those who do not do well, but the impersonal industry does not care.
It is a cold, hard fact that expediting rewards certain business practices (like maintaining financial reserves) and punishes others (like trying to run a business without capital).
When you expand the picture to include personal lifestyle choices, how reasonable is it to expect expediting to come to the rescue?
For example, say Diane and I decided to adopt two hard-case teens that have been in an orphanage all their lives, passed over by all others who came and adopted children. Say we built a house to provide for them, enrolled them in a good school, and hired a skilled nanny to watch over them and the house while we were out on the road. And say, because we now have a life at home and important family priorities, we change our business to be out three weeks and home one, and off more in the summer when the kids are out of school.
While putting good works and family priorities in play, this scenario would quickly drain our resources; both by increasing our expenses and reducing our income. If that happened, would it be the industry's fault? You know it would not.
Sometimes I wonder if I am the only one to listen to the voice of experience in the Open Forum. are12, you made a point that other veteran expediters have made HUNDREDS, that's right, HUNDREDS of times. RichM has said it. DaveKC has said it. Many others have said it, month after month, year after year.
In this post, you put it like this: "Each year, everything it takes to run this business,especially the fuel, has gone up except for our rate per mile."
Over and over and over again, veteran expediters have talked about how operational costs have increased and revenues have decreased. Diane and I took that point to heart long before we entered the industry, and we are standing strong today because of it.
I do take exception to the blanket statement that freight rates have declined, but do not wish to belabor the point here. Our revenue per mile has increased in the four years we have been on the road. In the shorter time we have been owner-operators, we have seen increases too.
But still, we knew going in that the good old days of expediting where easy money was made are long gone. One of the reasons we have few complaints about expediting is we are not trying to support a household with our expediting revenues or trying to get home often.
The mostly property-free life we live gives us the freedom to stay on the road and be more focused on the freight and opportunities expediting provides.
Life on the road is not for everyone. And it is especially tough for people who try to serve the two masters of a household and a business that takes them away from home and family.
Supporting a household and living on the road at the same time might have been possible for expediters in the good old days. It is not something I would recommend trying today.
I can only answer for myself here. I support OOIDA mostly because I love the work they do for drivers who have disputes with their carriers and fleet owners. Much of that does not make the news but is worked out one case at a time. That good work OOIDA does is what motavites me to open my wallet when OOIDA calls.
If OOIDA called and asked me to be in Washington April 1, I would ask the same question I asked about the proposed strike. What do you hope to accomplish with a trucker rally in Washington?
greg334
Veteran Expediter
You know Phil, you are making my case about telling people to wait to get into this business. Many have made it out like it is easy to learn and easy to deal with but reality sucks when you have a $2000 truck payment and no way to actually make money with the truck outside of the company you are contracted with.
This is an impersonal business as much as this is a hard business and realistically speaking many who have done this for a while and some from trucking background don’t know how hard it can be for some to transition into the business successfully.
I don’t think expediting itself rewards anyone or anything. It seems that skill, determination and fortitude do. But to go along with your statement, one thing that many of you do not want to admit to is that the company makes or breaks you, nothing else comes close to that cold hard fact. I don’t care what some say, favoritism does come into play in all companies, and the more complex and diverse the company is, there is more opportunity for that to happen.
Well Phil, I for one ask the same question about trucking, is it reasonable to ask that it becomes a main source of income?
Isn’t this true with almost any business? I mean the only thing that sets most of us apart from other types of businesses is the fact that most can not negotiate our pricing per job. It is sad when you think about it, like FedEx changing their dispatching system to get trucks moving more often.
Phil, your revenue is not derived the same as most others. It is clear that you have not been seeing a drop in revenue while others have. Why take exception to a statement that applies to many of us?
Actually you did it the smart way for you and your situation. You eliminated that extra liability but again it works for you, it may not work for a lot of others.
I have said this before and will say it again, many people want to make the big easy bucks but this leads them to failure. It is far better to know where you are to know where you need to go. For me, I need $2000 a month for all the household bills and some of the truck related stuff. This does not include the PM stuff or fuel. What this allows me to do is not to worry about making the big bucks but allows me to focus on keeping the truck moving. If people would have this attitude of knowing where you are to know where you need to go, there would be a lot less failures.
I think this is exactly the way a lot of us feel about the OOIDA.
runningturttle
Seasoned Expediter
Yes I would. $400.00 to fill the tank is hurting the profit margin. However I doubt that you could get the drivers to stick togather. If something is not done soon the O/O's will not have a truck. No way they are going to afford truck payments, upkeep, insurance and all the other costs and pay for fuel too.
Last night on 700 wlw a fellow driver called in and said their income was pretty much the same as last year but fuel was 1.00 higher this year and this is why they was shutting down.
not long after a junior broker who is paid on commission by his senior broker called in and came right out and said the brokers are charging more for the loads but not passing the increase on because they know the drivers need to make money and will accept the load no matter what rate.
as for me my kids have spring break starting today at 4 pm so I will be down until April 7th but has nothing to do with the shut down. however I do support those who are.
suggestion hold out for decent rates and pass on the rest. if your company values you at all they will find you loads.
not long after a junior broker who is paid on commission by his senior broker called in and came right out and said the brokers are charging more for the loads but not passing the increase on because they know the drivers need to make money and will accept the load no matter what rate.
as for me my kids have spring break starting today at 4 pm so I will be down until April 7th but has nothing to do with the shut down. however I do support those who are.
suggestion hold out for decent rates and pass on the rest. if your company values you at all they will find you loads.
We would do it. But need to be where the public can see your trucks and know what is going on. Truck stops near your home, parked in front of your house by road, maybe a big parking lot. Would also need to put signs on the trucks to let the public know why. Why not? But we will need the public behind us or to at least know what is going on, or our efforts would be lost along with pay. Just shutting down for a few days and no one knowing about it or why really wouldn'y make much since.
Fr8 Shaker
Veteran Expediter
If a majority of the trucks shut down everyone would know it in a day. and 3 for sure when theres nothing on the shelves.
We move the Nation if it takes a Shutdown to get the Nations Attention and get them off their Backsides to do something, Fuel, Rates, and Whatever it takes to makes us a Profitable Industrie Again I'm For it. Even if it Means Thinning The Herd of the Weak.Fuel is what it is, They Rates need to go up. IMO.
yes all 35 that have been cleared so far by our goverment what kind on threat is that???
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Fr8 Shaker
Veteran Expediter
Somebody has been listening to Rollye James again... Good show but she's not always right!
smartest thing i read on this thread so far
arkjarhead
Veteran Expediter
In Landline Magazine I read yesterday a company called Trinity dropped out of the pilot program and that only left 47 Mexican trucks with approval to run outside of the commercial border zone.
arkjarhead
Veteran Expediter
The departure of Trinity left 42 trucks from 12 different Mexican-domiciled motor carriers operating in the U.S. as part of the cross-border program in early February (Jones, Jami “Mexican company drops out of cross-border program” Land Line Magazine March/April 2008, pg. 24) .
greg334
Veteran Expediter
I got to throw this in.
I was listening to the BBC yesterday on the way home and they were talking about Africa and how many countries are moving ahead economically. These countries have now realized that government should stand out of the way of the markets and let things happen on their own. Now it seems that many of these countries in the past have had very horrible governments that repressed the citizens and controlled their markets with socialist measures. These same government looked at the US and saw the success we had in our past and trying to copy it while we are trying to copy them.
What I mean is we, as truckers, are sitting here crying about fuel, brokers and all that but as I have said, it is the government that we need to get out of our business, not the government that needs to solve our problems. So what if the price of fuel is high. So what if the brokers are taking all the money. Nothing will ever change if you want an open and free market where you have the opportunity to make money. Try to find solutions, try to find a way to improve things for yourself first and show others what you are doing. Slow down, use your head, purchase wisely, be frugal and don't count on someone else to solve the problem.
The biggest problem I see with this industry is the concept behind our work that we have to run the freight to meet a deadline. Push back if you can, slow down if you can. Outside of Hours of Service, the thing I see is that many let the company dictate to them how to run - even with the 45 MPH rate, can you actually run it at 55MPH and make the delivery? Maybe the rate for delivery needs to be adjusted to 35 MPH to reflect a realistic time for delivery?
In all honestly the one thing that the government can do for all of us is to bring back some of the realistic regulations for Hours of Service - like the split sleeper one and allow us to pace ourselves with one or two 2 hour breaks that stop the clock. These two things will actually help keep our cost down if we are allowed the flexibility to run as we need to run as we see fit.
The last thing of course is political involvement... do I have to say any more?
I was listening to the BBC yesterday on the way home and they were talking about Africa and how many countries are moving ahead economically. These countries have now realized that government should stand out of the way of the markets and let things happen on their own. Now it seems that many of these countries in the past have had very horrible governments that repressed the citizens and controlled their markets with socialist measures. These same government looked at the US and saw the success we had in our past and trying to copy it while we are trying to copy them.
What I mean is we, as truckers, are sitting here crying about fuel, brokers and all that but as I have said, it is the government that we need to get out of our business, not the government that needs to solve our problems. So what if the price of fuel is high. So what if the brokers are taking all the money. Nothing will ever change if you want an open and free market where you have the opportunity to make money. Try to find solutions, try to find a way to improve things for yourself first and show others what you are doing. Slow down, use your head, purchase wisely, be frugal and don't count on someone else to solve the problem.
The biggest problem I see with this industry is the concept behind our work that we have to run the freight to meet a deadline. Push back if you can, slow down if you can. Outside of Hours of Service, the thing I see is that many let the company dictate to them how to run - even with the 45 MPH rate, can you actually run it at 55MPH and make the delivery? Maybe the rate for delivery needs to be adjusted to 35 MPH to reflect a realistic time for delivery?
In all honestly the one thing that the government can do for all of us is to bring back some of the realistic regulations for Hours of Service - like the split sleeper one and allow us to pace ourselves with one or two 2 hour breaks that stop the clock. These two things will actually help keep our cost down if we are allowed the flexibility to run as we need to run as we see fit.
The last thing of course is political involvement... do I have to say any more?
WARNING - LONG POST!
The short answer for me is no, not as it stands right now. What I would need to know is, what is the strikes purpose (what do you want as an end result), and who can bring this result? If it is fuel price that is the issue, then who can "fix" them? The government, who already makes more off a gallon of fuel, than the big "evil" oil companies, and are considering adding an additional $0.25 - $0.60 per gallon tax? I don't see them being the solution. The oil companies who run at a 9 - 12% profit margin, should we ask them to make less profit because we don't know how to run our business at a decent profit margin (by the way what is your profit margin, do you even know the real numbers). The public, just what do you expect them to do to help control fuel prices - drive less, is that even practical even if you could get them to understand how supply and demand works?
If we think the government can help us think about how inefficient the government has been with the monies given to them already. SS, highway trust fund, medicare; you name it, the government is horrible with money. How about regulations, we all love the regulations they already have for our industry, what would they do to help us now? Since we get better fuel mileage at slower speeds, maybe follow Ontario's proposal and put speed limiters on us. Maybe just lower the speeds for trucks to 55 nationwide. Maybe they’ll regulate the rates or fsc, what if it's less than you get now? Maybe your company will keep yours the same, maybe they'll keep the difference, maybe they'll lower their rates to be more competitive. Maybe the government will implement new fuel mileage standards for trucks, forcing you to (at your cost) add technology to your truck or forcing you to go buy a new truck that meets their standards, which of course will cost more. If you want the government "to help" make sure you know what your asking for.
The only, and I do mean ONLY thing the government could do to help the situation is to open up the ANWR for drilling and/or allow more offshore drilling. This would increase supply, the mere announcement of this would drive the futures market down, then the actual increase in supply would even further drive the fuel prices down. Some have said to increase rates, how does that help in the long run? If we (O/O's) demand an increase in our base rates that cost is passed on to the carrier, they don't just absorb it, they pass it on to the shipper who doesn't absorb the cost either, they pass it on to their suppliers, etc. eventually it gets passed to the consumer (we are a part of the consumer). In order for the consumer to afford to pay for the increases on the shelves they now need an increase in their pay. What ever product or service they provide now goes up in price. Yes, it is a vicious circle that will continue on and on and on.
So what is the solution? First keep in mind as O/O's it is your business, understand it, know your numbers, this is not just a job, it is a business. We are not force dispatched, if it isn't profitable say no. If your numbers aren't as good as you think they should be, see what it is that you can do to reduce cost. Run slower, use anti-idling technologies, drive a more fuel efficient truck, etc. If you weren't an O/O and had a different business, would you not in order to be competitive, cut cost where possible? Understanding that just randomly raising the price of your goods or services without knowing the numbers would simply drive your customers away to find better prices from your competitor. Is there really a difference in our business?
The free market is driven by one law of economics, that of supply and demand. It is a very simple law and why some don't get it is beyond me. Why do the prices of hotels go up in Orlando in the summer? Bigger demand, same supply; then drop again in Sept, Oct.? less demand, same supply. Keep in mind that fuel is a global market, if we strike will that change the use of fuel by China, India or anywhere else? The only way to bring prices down, since demand is constantly increasing is to increase the supply side along with it.
As a side note, do you believe that company drivers will strike? No, of course not, they are paid by the mileage and the company pays for the fuel. So what happens to the freight you don't pick up; JB, Schneider, Swift, etc. these companies would be glad to come in and take it, they already know what their profit margin is and have the drivers to cover it.
The short answer for me is no, not as it stands right now. What I would need to know is, what is the strikes purpose (what do you want as an end result), and who can bring this result? If it is fuel price that is the issue, then who can "fix" them? The government, who already makes more off a gallon of fuel, than the big "evil" oil companies, and are considering adding an additional $0.25 - $0.60 per gallon tax? I don't see them being the solution. The oil companies who run at a 9 - 12% profit margin, should we ask them to make less profit because we don't know how to run our business at a decent profit margin (by the way what is your profit margin, do you even know the real numbers). The public, just what do you expect them to do to help control fuel prices - drive less, is that even practical even if you could get them to understand how supply and demand works?
If we think the government can help us think about how inefficient the government has been with the monies given to them already. SS, highway trust fund, medicare; you name it, the government is horrible with money. How about regulations, we all love the regulations they already have for our industry, what would they do to help us now? Since we get better fuel mileage at slower speeds, maybe follow Ontario's proposal and put speed limiters on us. Maybe just lower the speeds for trucks to 55 nationwide. Maybe they’ll regulate the rates or fsc, what if it's less than you get now? Maybe your company will keep yours the same, maybe they'll keep the difference, maybe they'll lower their rates to be more competitive. Maybe the government will implement new fuel mileage standards for trucks, forcing you to (at your cost) add technology to your truck or forcing you to go buy a new truck that meets their standards, which of course will cost more. If you want the government "to help" make sure you know what your asking for.
The only, and I do mean ONLY thing the government could do to help the situation is to open up the ANWR for drilling and/or allow more offshore drilling. This would increase supply, the mere announcement of this would drive the futures market down, then the actual increase in supply would even further drive the fuel prices down. Some have said to increase rates, how does that help in the long run? If we (O/O's) demand an increase in our base rates that cost is passed on to the carrier, they don't just absorb it, they pass it on to the shipper who doesn't absorb the cost either, they pass it on to their suppliers, etc. eventually it gets passed to the consumer (we are a part of the consumer). In order for the consumer to afford to pay for the increases on the shelves they now need an increase in their pay. What ever product or service they provide now goes up in price. Yes, it is a vicious circle that will continue on and on and on.
So what is the solution? First keep in mind as O/O's it is your business, understand it, know your numbers, this is not just a job, it is a business. We are not force dispatched, if it isn't profitable say no. If your numbers aren't as good as you think they should be, see what it is that you can do to reduce cost. Run slower, use anti-idling technologies, drive a more fuel efficient truck, etc. If you weren't an O/O and had a different business, would you not in order to be competitive, cut cost where possible? Understanding that just randomly raising the price of your goods or services without knowing the numbers would simply drive your customers away to find better prices from your competitor. Is there really a difference in our business?
The free market is driven by one law of economics, that of supply and demand. It is a very simple law and why some don't get it is beyond me. Why do the prices of hotels go up in Orlando in the summer? Bigger demand, same supply; then drop again in Sept, Oct.? less demand, same supply. Keep in mind that fuel is a global market, if we strike will that change the use of fuel by China, India or anywhere else? The only way to bring prices down, since demand is constantly increasing is to increase the supply side along with it.
As a side note, do you believe that company drivers will strike? No, of course not, they are paid by the mileage and the company pays for the fuel. So what happens to the freight you don't pick up; JB, Schneider, Swift, etc. these companies would be glad to come in and take it, they already know what their profit margin is and have the drivers to cover it.