Why such Doom and Gloom

[davekc]

I would agree with both Dave's. I'm not really seeing the gloom and doom so I see little reason for the nails and sand.
Most get into trouble by being undercapitalized, driving for a under performing carrier, personal "wants" get in the way, or afraid to adapt to another situation if the current one no longer performs.

 

[pjjjjj]

If you are going to drive for an 'owner', it seems to me that is a good way to try out the industry without a lot of risk or capital. I don't think it would be a big thing later, if you were to change your mind and go back to long hauling. If you were to buy a truck right now, you might be more stuck with your decision.

You have to realize that everyone's perception of 'GOOD' money, is vastly different. And it really does matter which carrier you are with, and perhaps to a lesser extent, which owner you are with. Not that one might not be as good as another, but one might not suit 'you' and 'your' circumstances, as well as another.

Some people are thriving, and others are going out of business. I can pretty well guarantee you that all of them feel they are giving it their best, and have tried different things to make it better for themselves. The thing is, you don't know what you don't know.. some might not have a clue what they could be doing better. Some don't know they're shooting themselves in the foot, so to speak, when in fact they are. Some people have misconceived ideas of things from the start. Some recruiters are less than honest. Some try to talk themselves into believing certain things are true when in fact they're not, or vice versa. Some might feel $2000/month net income before taxes is good money, others might feel $10000/month is good money. Some might have huge personal expenses outside of the truck to look after, some might only have their on-the-road expenses. Some might be doing this as their sole source of income while others might also have a pension to rely on. Some have bad attitudes and aren't even aware of it. Some don't have financial sense. And the list goes on and on.

There are just way too many variables to get a straight and simple answer. That said, you seem determined. You seem to be starting out with experience and knowledge that others may not have had. And there are all kinds of things you can do to change your own situation if it's not working out for you the way you want it to, before throwing the towel in.

Like any business, or any job for that matter, you really won't know until you're in it. Read all you can, learn all you can, make your own best decisions for yourself, weed out the stuff you feel doesn't apply. Monitor your progress, tweak as necessary, work hard, and give it your all.

Oh, and one personal observation. I used to think it was best to give something a long-ish period of time to work out the 'warts', and now I feel differently. Altho it can be expensive to change carriers, it just costs way too much money in lost revenue potential if you're with the wrong carrier (for you).

Sorry this turned out to be so .. wordy ;/

 

[davekc]

Hey Pjjjjj

That was a good post.

 

[broker]

Wow, I can say one thing, there are more drivers who know what it to takes to run a "business" in Expediting, than in over the road T/T.
Some of you could easily have had a 5 year degree in business.
I am very excited and am sure of my choice to go this route.

You have the same problems that I saw in T/T land. Some don't have the cards fall their way, picked the wrong company, are over their heads in debt, saw big $$ signs without knowing the sacrifices it would take, etc.

You know, they have made the trucks so easy to drive now, that anyone gan get behind the wheel. However, driving the truck isn't even half the key to profibility.

I have purshased over the years, 1 used and 4 brand new Tractors, all makes. Priced from $60,000 to $150,000.
I made good money with them all.
You told me what I wanted to know and I know we can make good money in Expeditiing.

Sure am looking forward to meeting all of you in person. What a great group of people. Best of all however, you like to help others.
Thank you,
"Big" John

 

[pjjjjj]

Well thank you Dave, I was going to say the same about this post of yours.. says it all in a nice little nutshell

Most get into trouble by being undercapitalized, driving for a under performing carrier, personal "wants" get in the way, or afraid to adapt to another situation if the current one no longer performs.

 

[Rabbit]

I'm an outsider, researching and considering whether or not to hop in when the time comes, in about a year. And I can tell you that all the "doom and gloom" has me scared spitless. So I research, research, research...

...and discover that the reason no one seems to agree is that _there are no agreed-upon facts_. Everyone's arguing personal experiences and opinions; there's no commonly-accepted "truth" about how much one should make at this, what one's expenses ought to be, how many miles to expect, etc. Should an expediter in a van expect to make more than a Wal-Mart shelf-stocker? More than a drywaller? More than a plumber? No one agrees on the expectations, any more than there seems to be any agreement on what kinds of trucks are most and least profitable. It's not just this forum-- there's no objective facts to be had _anywhere_ regarding this stuff. So, everyone beats each other over the head with _opinions_ and personal history.

That said... So far my approach has been to look at _myself_, my strengths and weaknesses. Who and what I am, I believe, will be far more important to success and failure than what truck, what company, etc. I'm historically a good worker with a strong work ethic. I love to drive for hours at a time under virtually all conditions, and see new places. I'm a loner by nature; my social life fits neatly in my laptop. I'm also reasonably intelligent, more responsible than most with money, and willing to see a risk through the hard times as well as the easy. Plus, I have decent capitalization. In short, I think I might just have the makings of a pretty fair solo expediter.

And, therefore, I'm going to measure my potential for success against the _upper_ part of the range, not the lower. In other words, I'm not going to overly-fear the failures of others who are probably (though I can't know for sure yet) less fitted to this lifestyle. So long as others are making decent livings, so can I. After all, _any_ Tom, Dick, or Harry can fail. I, however, don't intend to. In my heart, I believe that where another person can succeed, so can I.

And you know what? I bet I will. Unless the financial universe ends or my health fails, expect to see me out on the road with you in early 2010.

 

[chefdennis]

Rabbit,

I just started this business in a van myself within the last month. If you have read my psot, you will see that the 2 of us seem to be on the same wave link. I'll look to cross pathes with you in early 2010..........and well beyond!!

Chef Dennis

 

[TeamCaffee]

This business is like any other there are some that can take a lemon and make lemonade and others that just see the sour lemon. It is what you make of it and how you handle your finances and time. As Phil said there are really good weeks and there are really bad weeks that can stretch into a month. The better prepared you are for the slow times and how easily you can change your business model to fit the changing times is key. For us staying pro active and not reactive works for us.

 

[greg334]

Well Doom and Gloom?

My advice to people who want to get into this business

1 - learn what your situation is; don't assume that just because you have money in the bank and some other savings that you will financially survive an issue if it happens

2 - Set your goals, small goals are the best and then write a plan on how to reach those goals. Depending on what you are doing, a business plan may be a good thing, but on the other hand it may be a lesson in futility unless you learn how to follow it.


3 – Always protect yourself, get professionals to help you get it together and to protect you. DO not wait until you need them.

4 - Read and read and read. If it is all negative, read it a couple times to learn what is being said. FSC, DH, and all those terms matter, listening to others complain about their company will help. All the complaints will matter when they happen to you so the best thing to do is learn what they are, identify and then avoid them if you can.

5 - Never ever assume what works for someone, will work for you. Business like other things are experiments, what sometimes works in one situation may not in another. When people start out at the top of the game in any business, they will not fail. They are not the examples to follow; the ones who struggled and made it through hard times are the ones to follow, like the guy who has the right attitude, saves and moves up to a newer truck. These are the people who to listen to, they know what matters and what doesn’t. Getting certifications, getting into the elite of the fleet and all that don’t matter until you need to have it matter but not when you start.

6 – the most important thing is to pick a company that will fit your goals. This was not said until I started saying it (or am I wrong?). The company makes or breaks you – that is a fact of life. The other part to this which is part of #5, getting all the certifications may sound great at some companies but companies may not want you to get them. It is not a given that you have access to anything within some companies.

7 – Attitude is 90% of the real success of this business, not knowledge but attitude. This means that you have to have the attitude to fight boredom, to deal with the frustration of having to deal with bad people at the company or have a shipper who is really an a**. But attitude also has to make sure you get into good habits like tracking your expenses, maintaining your vehicle and so on. Getting the right habit makes it easy for life in general.

8 – Remember that this business is hard. I don’t mean learning the business; there is two different aspects of learning – the learning of the company owner and the independent owner. But I mean that this business is hard because there is a cost to do this business when families are involved, when you need to get off the road and can’t because you can’t afford it and so on.

9 – There is a difference between the company owner and the independent owner and the learning curve that is needed to reach a comfortable point in your business. I am not talking about how to drive or secure loads. The company owner (and driver) does not have to learn a lot outside of the company but has to learn how to handle YOUR finances and set YOUR goals and limits and get into good business habits (which is the hardest thing to do for a lot of people) but most of us do not go out and pound payment to get the loads or work on fixing serious problems with shippers or anything close to all that. The company does, all we do is accept the load, pick it up, drop it off and locate ourselves to get another load. We have to learn the details of how the company works which differs with every company but pretty much they are all the same, even the one I am driving for right now. So with that in mind, your learning is limited what the company does, how it does things, how you interact with the company and so on. I won’t comment on the independent owner because I am not one.


9 – Do not fall for the blame game; you failed because.......

 

[dhalltoyo]

Rabbit brought up a good point when he said, "my social life fits neatly in my laptop."

Most non-expedite freight travels on a regular schedule. I know of companies that give their drivers a load and drop off schdule for the entire week.

Expediting tends to be more hurry and then wait.

Rabbit's comment reminded me how important it is for expediters to have a hobby, something they really enjoy doing, to keep from going stir crazy during the "wait" periods.

I am considering working on another degree program for personal enrichment via College Without Walls to help me pass the time between loads.

Years ago, I built some pretty nice models and I have thought about doing so again...just to keep myself occupied.

 

[dcalien]

ps always and I mean always make sure the floor is on the bottom unless you plan to roll over a lot.

 

[Broompilot]

The original poster asked WHY SUCH DOOM AND GLOOM. You said "have years in Trucking" and your asking.

Come ON guy & Kathy, how many places did you use to PU at that are no longer in business? Look at what is happening to our Business Future do to Over Borrowing?

Its your business if you want to stay out for months at a time, but making $ in that time is gona take what Dave Casey stated. You never mentioned once your savings amount or if there is one, Phil did however mention it over and over. That is gona be your biggest cushion. If there is no Savings chances are better than good you will last about as long as an ice cube on the pavement in Laredo.

Know what your getting into, right now those that are gona survive have a savings account, expierence in this business but that is no Guarantee.

Example two/three years ago I was Averaging a load every other day PU and delivered 4 a week most weeks. Now ask others here how many they are averaging.

If things were doing well, I would be encouraging others to do this if they want to, today the fun is taken out when the income is not there to justify being out for months at a time.

Most people have to wait, and wait UNTIL the BEEP. (not all)

 

[broker]

Broompilot,
Why the comparsion to my years in T/T O/O business?
There is none, other than both drive a truck and haul some kind of frieght.
As said before, anybody can drive T/T general frieght. Get in, go where they tell you, call in, go where they send you next.
Same deal everyday and it pays the same every load.
The last Company I was leased to, I drove a 700 mile radius of home base. Went out with basicly the same frieght, came back with basicly the same frieght.
Another example:
Have any of you in Expediting arrived at your destination ON TIME, then sit and wait for a loading dock to open for 5 hours, then after you get docked you have to unhook the tractor from the trailer (in sub zero weather) and go park in the lot, while a LUMPER takes another 4 hours to unload what you could have in 2 hours? Add to this, you can not even go into the business to use the rest room.

I think comparing Expediting to general frieght T/T/ is like apples to oranges. They are both some kind of fruit.

This is why I'm acting like I have never been in this business before and asking these questions and giving opinions on how I look at things.

I'm here to learn, that's all.

I HAVE FRIED AN EGG ON THE STREETS OF YUMA AZ.
"Big" John

 

[bludragon13]

[.
Another example:
Have any of you in Expediting arrived at your destination ON TIME, then sit and wait for a loading dock to open for 5 hours,

Sorry broker, it does happen in expedite, expedite is figured at 47 or so mph,have arrived on time,2am in saskatoon, to find shipper closed and wont open till 7am ,or have a del based on mph over 2200 mi to find shipper closes 4hr before you are scheduled to arrive, or you are held up at a border crossing, because of a broker mistake or yours, for 6to11 hrs. doesn't happen often but it does happen,and anyone who says it doesn't is probably a recruiter.be prepared for things to snafu at any time cause at some point it will.these are the kinds of things that add to the toughness of this bus. and many more besides as others may add ,point is if you think this is a snap cause t/t is so tough then maybe better the devil you know then the one you don't know.also the trip to I-80 is fun,have you had your wife practice with a milk jug? she'll need that as well as that trip to fantasy land.

 

[nightcreacher]

Our customers at fecc are given 45 mph.sometimes third party loads dont have a confirmed delivery time,and fecc has to deal with third party for delivery conformation,and you arrive before this happens,finding the customer closed,this can happen,does it?not often.Worst senario,you go to pick up and find them closed,if your early,not good,if your right on time,probably going to be a dry run.But as far as arriving on time at a delivery,and have to wait hours at a time to get to a dock,you probably didnt have expedite freight on,probably a second day delivery discount that was rushed to deliver straight thru

 

[ATeam]

Sorry broker, it does happen in expedite, expedite is figured at 47 or so mph,have arrived on time,2am in saskatoon, to find shipper closed and wont open till 7am ,or have a del based on mph over 2200 mi to find shipper closes 4hr before you are scheduled to arrive, or you are held up at a border crossing, because of a broker mistake or yours, for 6to11 hrs. doesn't happen often but it does happen,....

I agree. Delays sometimes happen for the reasons described above. More often, it is the case that pickups and deliveries are not delayed. It has happened to us many, many times that we have arrived and been bumped to first in line ahead of others that have been waiting to pick up or deliver.

be prepared for things to snafu at any time cause at some point it will.these are the kinds of things that add to the toughness of this bus. and many more besides as others may add ,point is if you think this is a snap cause t/t is so tough then maybe better the devil you know then the one you don't know.also the trip to I-80 is fun,have you had your wife practice with a milk jug? she'll need that as well as that trip to fantasy land.

I disagree about the toughness of this business. After five years on the road, Diane and I still say every day feels like a weekend and that this is the easiest, least stressful, most fun and most lucrative work we have ever done.

Attitude is everything. At this moment, we are in Manhattan. Having threaded the needle into it in rush hour and getting bumped off our planned route by an exit closure, we are parked half on a sidewalk on a busy street waiting for our pickup contact to arrive. Some people refuse to go to NYC because of the stress. Going to NYC is not fun but it is not tough either ... if you decide ahead of time that you will not let it get to you and prepare well.

There are the circumstances of this business and your responses to them. You cannot always control your circumstances but you can usually control your responses. Whether you think this business is tough or not is a function of the responses you choose.

In other words, attitude is everything.

 

[bludragon13]

Broompilot,
Why the comparsion to my years in T/T O/O business?
There is none, other than both drive a truck and haul some kind of frieght.
As said before, anybody can drive T/T general frieght. Get in, go where they tell you, call in, go where they send you next.
Same deal everyday and it pays the same every load.
The last Company I was leased to, I drove a 700 mile radius of home base. Went out with basicly the same frieght, came back with basicly the same frieght.
Another example:
Have any of you in Expediting arrived at your destination ON TIME, then sit and wait for a loading dock to open for 5 hours, then after you get docked you have to unhook the tractor from the trailer (in sub zero weather) and go park in the lot, while a LUMPER takes another 4 hours to unload what you could have in 2 hours? Add to this, you can not even go into the business to use the rest room.

I think comparing Expediting to general frieght T/T/ is like apples to oranges. They are both some kind of fruit.

This is why I'm acting like I have never been in this business before and asking these questions and giving opinions on how I look at things.

I'm here to learn, that's all.

I HAVE FRIED AN EGG ON THE STREETS OF YUMA AZ.
"Big" John

phil,
of course attitude is every thing, thats why we are an extremly sucessful team, you missed the point! the poster,broker, made a comparison to t/t that he thought never happens to expedite o/o-drivers, which of course does,as if he thinks expediters don't have the same problems as t/t drivers.he stated his wife would be joining him as a first time driver and took her to i-80 at walcot,ia to show her a truck stop-just the average one right phil. as i have driven t/t before i am aware of the attitude toward "little trucks " among many ,not all, t/t drivers, which is as I've been told many times, "those little truck drivers are all t/t wanna be's who can't cut it with a big rig".So I'm aware when that attitude starts coming thru in a posters statements.you obviously didn't read his last post but just felt a need to correct me in my attitude when in fact you need to have thoughts of your own not just respond to others statements.you have responded to me on a few occasions, always in a manner that shows disrespect for another sucessful team, and i've let you slide til now but no longer , watch your responses to me in the future as your free ride is over, now your fans can jump in and say your pickin on phil, maybe you just need to be more through in reading and not so quick to fulfill your need to type and see your words on screen.

 

[bludragon13]

Our customers at fecc are given 45 mph.sometimes third party loads dont have a confirmed delivery time,and fecc has to deal with third party for delivery conformation,and you arrive before this happens,finding the customer closed,this can happen,does it?not often.Worst senario,you go to pick up and find them closed,if your early,not good,if your right on time,probably going to be a dry run.But as far as arriving on time at a delivery,and have to wait hours at a time to get to a dock,you probably didnt have expedite freight on,probably a second day delivery discount that was rushed to deliver straight thru

steve, sorry you missed this one, we have arrived on expedite loads , on time and have had to wait for cons to open, we also go to the head of the line with expedite when they are open, however why are you trying to answer me when the poster was making the comparisons? perhaps as i stated to phil you have a little of that same feeling toward "little trucks"? just kidding i know you wouldn't look down on fellow expediters.if you have never arrived for a 6am sechduled del and the cons doesn't open til 7am, then you have been most fortunate in your many years of expedite, i did not say it happens often, the poster asked if that ever happened to anyone-also we have been to places where they didnt have facilities for truck drivers to use? do you believe that the i-80 ts is a ave. ts? it's the right place to take the wife if your trying to convince her ts are cool- not if your giving her a taste of what to expect on the road at the ave. ts, this site is supposed to be about the info of expedite and to an extent trucking so sugarcoating the info is not helping others make good decisions,start by responding to the newbies questions as i tried to not to the responses of a team that has been doing expedite for a few years.thanks

 

[ATeam]

as i have driven t/t before i am aware of the attitude toward "little trucks " among many ,not all, t/t drivers, which is as I've been told many times, "those little truck drivers are all t/t wanna be's who can't cut it with a big rig".

Shifting the topic a bit to the attitude toward little trucks said to be held by "many, not all" tractor/trailer drivers, not once in five years has any t/t driver suggested to me, face-to-face or over the CB or even online, that I am a t/t wannabe who can't cut it with a big rig.

If someone did, he or she would be wrong on two counts: (1) I don't want to drive a big-rig, and (2) I know enough about the road and truck stops and class A CDL requirements to know that if I chose to drive a big-rig, I'd be behind the wheel of one in short order and successfully driving it.

The attitude of big-rig drivers toward straight-truck drivers is someting for people researching the industry to consider. Consider not the attitude itself, but the importance of it to you.

So what if some big-rig drivers look down on you? Listening to them on the CB, these are people who look down on themselves too. They hate their jobs. They hate their companies. They hate newbies. They hate drivers who out-compete them for "their" freight. They hate the oil companies. They hate, hate, hate. That straight-truck drivers are one of many items on their hate list is meaningless.

Understand that not all big-rig drivers are like this. But just as some look down on straight trucks and others do not, some have hateful hearts and some do not.

Think about it. Why are you getting into expediting? Is it to earn the approval of tractor/trailer drivers? If it is, there is nothing you can do to win. There will always be some that look down on you and there will even be some that hate you.

Unless your reason for getting into expedting is to win a popularity contest of some sort or to be popular in the eyes of a selected group of people, it does not matter what t/t drivers think of you.

Regarding popularity and acceptance, what matters is what your carrier and the customers you serve think of you.

By the way, when you get a group of straight truck drivers together, it is not difficult to find some in the group that look down on t/t drivers. T/T drivers should disregard those opinions for the same reasons straight-truck drivers should disregard T/T driver opinions about them.

Also note that there are a whole bunch of straight-truck drivers that started out in big-riges and consider their "move up" to straight-truck driving a positive career move.

 

[broker]

bludrangon13
This is for only YOU my friend. So everyone else, don't take this personal.
You need someone to knock that chip off your shoulder.
You don't know me from Adam. Don't come on here cause you had some bad times with other T/T drivers and tell everyone how I look down at Expeditiors.
You are like some of those T/T drivers you speak of and have a problem with them.
I have had nothing but respect for the Expediting proffesion.
You folks have to sit and wait sometimes for days to get your next load. You have to "decide" what loads to take and sometimes you are wrong and can cost you profits. You may have to spend more than a month away from home. I could go on but you have it a lot tougher than T/T drivers.

I can say I'm wrong or as I'll put it, misinformed. I did not know you had to wait at shippers. I thought this was emergency frieght and the people were glad to see you and you went ahead of anybody else when you got there.
Shouldn't always listen to what strangers tell me.

So, one more time for you bludragon13,
I respect Expeditors more than common dry frieght T/T drivers.
Not to say T/T driving is easy, as stated before (that got you all upset) but being an Expeditor has a whole lot more pressure on making the right decissions.

Send me a private email if you still have a problem with me.
I'm sure you will find I'm not who you think I am.
Just no need to get this topic off on another track than it was ment for.

TO LEARN WHAT MY WIFE AND I CAN ABOUT THE EXPEDITING BUSINESS.
"BIG" John