why can't they leave the native americans alone??

morningstar55ny

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Paterson signs law to collect taxes on Indian cigarettes : Home: The Buffalo News



Paterson signs law to collect taxes on Indian cigarettes
By Tom Precious
NEWS ALBANY BUREAU
ALBANY -- Gov. David A. Paterson this morning signed into law a new effort to begin collecting taxes on cigarettes sold by Indian retailers to non-Indians, a move certain to spark controversy and push-back from the booming tobacco trade on Seneca Nation reservations.

The governor, who had been saying he wanted to negotiate a resolution to the decades' old dispute, is facing a $15 billion state budget deficit and needs all the revenues he can uncover in the fiscal plan he will unveil Tuesday to close gaps in both 2008 and 2009.

"This law has not been adequately applied for far too long, giving non-Indians easy access to tax-free cigarettes both on the reservations and over the Internet," Paterson said in a statement this afternoon after signing the measure in Utica.

"However, the signing of this bill should not be seen as anything other than enforcing the tax laws of New York in a fair and effective manner. My commitment to the sovereign powers of New York's Indian nations has not and will not waver and I will continue to seek a comprehensive negotiated solution with all of New York's Indian nations," he added.

Indian tribes were already threatening legal action to stop the law from being implemented.

"If the state is serious about resolving this issue, it will negotiate with Indian nations rather than constantly attacking them," said Mark Emery, a spokesman for the Oneida Nation, which sells tax-free cigarettes at 13 Oneida-owned convenience stores in central New York.

And some lawmakers, recalling the violent showdowns the last time the state tried to collect the taxes in 1997, were calling for a calm response. "I urge the governor and the Seneca Nation to undertake discussions to find a peaceful and productive resolution to their differences," said Sen. Catherine Young, R-Olean.

Seneca Nation officials had no immediate comment, a spokesman said.

Lawmakers believe the state is losing at least $400 million annually from Indian tax-free cigarette sales.

Sources on Sunday told The Buffalo News that Paterson would have weakened whatever little chance he might still have to negotiate a settlement if he had vetoed the bill. The measure would require wholesalers to attest, under penalty of perjury, that they have not sold tax-free cigarettes to any retailer. Manufacturers would then, in turn, only supply those wholesalers who make those assurances.

On Tuesday, Paterson is expected to propose slapping higher levies on everything from health insurance companies to consumers who buy "high caloric" beverages, clothes and gasoline.

The governor will unveil how he intends to close nearly $15 billion in deficits over the next 16 months, also wants to trim payments to hospitals and nursing homes, and sharply reduce anticipated state aid to public schools, which would likely push districts to raise property taxes.

Aides said he also will widen the safety net for poorer residents by raising welfare grants for the first time in 18 years and relaxing requirements -- from fingerprinting and in-person interviews to asset tests -- for Medicaid applicants and making hundreds of thousands of more people eligible for the public health insurance program.

The governor also is expected to redo the state's much-criticized Empire Zone program, which provides lucrative tax incentives to private companies, many of which have failed to produce promised job-creation numbers. Sources say the effort could make it more difficult to develop Canal Side, the big Erie Canal-themed development unveiled Sunday in Buffalo whose participants are counting on Empire Zone assistance.

While the governor has said he wants to avoid an increase of the personal income tax in the budget proposal, a whole assortment of fees and other assessments would be imposed on New Yorkers, including higher tuition at state universities, an assessment on health insurance policies that will trickle down to consumers and looming higher fees on everyone from automobile and truck drivers to users of the state's park system.

The governor, sources said, also is looking for givebacks from state workers, and a proposal he pushed in November to have government retirees contribute more to their health insurance is expected to be dusted off and released again in Tuesday's proposed budget.

The governor also is considering longer hours for gamblers to make bets at racetrack casinos. And he is under growing pressure to close some upstate prisons, which have seen a drop in prisoners in recent years. And hundreds of millions from off-budget authorities will be "swept" into the general fund to help balance the plan.

The Legislature in August gave final passage to the cigarette tax bill, but the Assembly held onto the bill to give Paterson time to negotiate with the tribes. The governor recently met with officials from the Seneca Nation regarding the issue of cigarette sales, but the talks produced no deal.

Paterson has been under enormous pressure from industry and health groups -- as well as more recently by unions, lawmakers and budget stakeholders -- to collect what has been estimated at more than $400 million in lost annual revenue as a way to cut back some of his spending cut plans. The tax-free business has flourished over the last decade or more during a time when the tribes have taken advantage of big increases in the tobacco tax at the state level. The state now charges $27.50 per carton in excise taxes.

Seneca officials have said the tax-free sales are protected by treaties dating from the days of George Washington.

Seneca officials were not available to comment.

"If he is signing this and he anticipates the revenue, that is a sign he's very serious, and time will tell," said Russell Sciandra, director of the Center for a Tobacco Free New York.

The collection efforts have been stalled for years. Then-Gov. George E. Pataki once tried, but he quickly backed down after violence along the Thruway by Seneca and other Indian protesters who shut down the highway and clashed with state troopers.

Signing the bill, however, would not automatically begin the collection effort, and Paterson could still stall the process to give himself time to obtain deals with the tribes.

"We've got a financial situation, and the courts have said we should collect. Now we should go one step further and take a look at gasoline and sales taxes," Magee said of those taxes that are not collected by Indian retailers.

In other budget matters, the Paterson administration said that its budget plan would expand the safety net for poor people in several ways. But the plans are mostly either backloaded, with the expensive costs not kicking in until 2010 or they rely on risky federal waivers -- and money from Washington -- that is far from guaranteed.

The proposed benefits include:

-- Raising the basic welfare grant by 30 percent over three years, though not starting until January 2010, affecting 200,000 households. When fully implemented, the average family would get $387 per month, up from $291 now, a "significant investment in New York's most vulnerable population," according to senior Paterson health adviser Joe Baker.

-- Eliminating certain procedures, including fingerprints and face-to-face interviews, for Medicaid applicants, making it easier and faster to qualify.

-- Permitting government workers and 19- and 20-year-olds who don't live with their parents to participate in a Medicaid program known as Family Health Plus.

-- Raising income eligibility to 200 percent of the poverty level, up from 150 percent, for Medicaid coverage, adding about 440,000 adults. It would require Washington's approval and Washington's funding, too. Paterson also wants Washington to cover indigent care for community and mental-health clinics.

-- Higher spending for veterans counseling and lead paint prevention, and more money for food pantries struggling to cope with the economic downturn.

While the Paterson administration sought to highlight its concern for the poor, advocacy groups said anticipated major cuts to health programs would be eroding access to care.

"AARP is concerned about any potential budget cuts that would not allow an older person to stay in their home and live independently in their community as they age," said Bill Ferris, an AARP lobbyist. "Maintaining home- and community-based services should be a priority of New York State in these difficult economic times because it saves the state money."

Daniel Sisto, president of the Healthcare Association of New York State, a hospital and nursing home trade group, said looming budget cuts will force facilities to cut jobs, "further weakening already fragile local economies and threatening the level of care and service the public demands."

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last time they tried this......

there were war parties in full war paint all over city hall .....

and I90 closed down with tires burning across it.... cuz it goes thru the middle of the reservation..

and I and my family and friends are very supportive of the Indians 100# .. we have some spare used tires to donate if need be. heh
 

TeamCaffee

Administrator
Staff member
Owner/Operator
On the reservations who pays to maintain roads, provide fire protection, libraries, mail service and all the other items taxes help out with?
 

morningstar55ny

Veteran Expediter
Driver
On the reservations who pays to maintain roads, provide fire protection, libraries, mail service and all the other items taxes help out with?

im not sure..........but al the roads and such i been on .......over there... are very well maintained all the time.....
they even have there own police.....
 

TeamCaffee

Administrator
Staff member
Owner/Operator
I do not know either just wondering if we have to maintain everything for the reservations. Never thought about it till I read you post.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I'm not sure how leave the native Americans alone relates to the proposed collecting of taxes due and payable by purchasers who aren't native Americans. It sounds to me like they're just trying to do what should have been done all along.
 

Doggie Daddy

Veteran Expediter
The state of New York ought to be glad that the tribes let the roads come trough their land without charging them any extra fees.

The native Americans are very well organized in the state of New York,so this tax will not come to be without a fight.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
I do not know either just wondering if we have to maintain everything for the reservations. Never thought about it till I read you post.
Well ... considering that our forefathers pretty much stole this entire continent from the "red man", herded the remainder of the population left after that genocide onto "reservations" (can you say "internment camps" ?) and then succeeding generations have repeatedly reneged on various promises and treaties over the last 400 years or so, that might be the least we oughta do .....

... just a thought ......
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
If not for the Early Americans there would be no tobacco to tax or canoes to license. Casinos would be limited to Nevada and New Jersey.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Forever and ever. Who did the "Native Americans" displace when they emigrated to this part of the world? I thought I was a native American, I was born in Detroit. How much more native can you get? I really did enjoy fighting fires with the Seminole crews in Florida. Those guys were REALLY good firefighters. You did not have to worry about your "back" when you were on the fire line with that bunch. Layoutshooter
 

mjolnir131

Veteran Expediter
Forever and ever. Who did the "Native Americans" displace when they emigrated to this part of the world? I thought I was a native American, I was born in Detroit. How much more native can you get? I really did enjoy fighting fires with the Seminole crews in Florida. Those guys were REALLY good firefighters. You did not have to worry about your "back" when you were on the fire line with that bunch. Layoutshooter

From the archaeological remains it appears that they wear aboriginal in nature,think down under those island chains.The present population of mis-named native Americans have very few of these aboriginal gens in there tribes,so the original tribes wear either killed off out right or starved off. That is the way it works though contrary to what some of the weaker minds tell us thats how nature handles things that is how man does it. we are the product of our planet nothing wrong with that. what is wrong is complaining about your loss to the point of changing history it's dishonorable to your ancestors and there warriors it makes them unimportant and thats bad karma.

I'm quit sure that our modern tribes do not sit around countering there casino profits wondering how they can make it up to the aboriginals they wiped out.why would they those guys lost

So when you start felling guilty for past aggressions, stop yourself, you have been brain washed.your not only dishonoring there warrior and ancestors but yours as well and thats double bad karma.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
The Feds in Canada did this to the reserves many years ago....one must have a Native ID card to make fuel or purchase smokes.....It's NOT a big issue...the natives are breaking the law by selling to non natives in the first place, they have nothing to complain about. Most that live in reservation areas have native friends that make thier purchases for them, to skirt the laws.
All this squawking is about money made from tax avoidance. It has nothing to do with Indian rights. If the natives asked for ID in the first place NY wouldn't have had to legislate a law to force them to....
 
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arrbsthw

Expert Expediter
the Indians have been here long enough with the "regular people" that there should be no difference any longer.
If I have to pay tax...Indians should have to pay tax
jmho!
 

Suds43

Seasoned Expediter
To anwswer your question TeamCaffee, the State of New York pays to maintain any 'state' roads thru the reservation. Any reservation that's 'indian land' in the state of NY. No matter if it's the Seneca's or whatever.
The state roads are maintained, plowed, etc. with state crews.
Yes, morningstar, they do have their own "Nation" police force. Why? Because it's not safe to have NYS troopers go on the reservation.
They (the indian nations) cry and whine about "our land", how it was stolen from them, yet you never hear them talk about the millions they make off their casino's, which the state has no mandate over whatsoever.
I grew up in that area of NYS. Thank God I don't live in NY anymore!!!! I remember the time they shut down I-90 for a week. Yes, they pulled tires, lumber, whatever they could get and build huge bonfires in the middle of the interstate. Closed both lanes, east and westbound. They actually had snipers in trees with rifles daring any NYS trooper to come onto "their land".
I remember when "the nation" decided to put an extra property tax on any non-indian (caucasian) families that owned homes or property in the city of Salamanca. Yet, they whine and cry when the state tries to tax them.
I can't say this for a fact, but they probably get state aid for their schools, etc.
I say if they want to be a nation, the state should lease any property that goes thru "their land". Rt. 5, Rt. 20, I-90, etc. Let them be a nation. Shut off any state, federal funding, Deal with them as if they were any other foriegn country. Let them be a Nation!
Alot of people say we 'owe' the 'native americans'. There are no 'native americans' alive today. We owe these people nothing!
JMHO
 
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layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I seem to remember back in my college antropology classes that those who we now call "Native Americans" "displaced" a few Viking settelments in what is now New England. Those settlements pre-dated all or most of the "Native" settlements in those areas. Not that any of this matters. What's done is done. I was not there. None of my reletives were there. I am not responisable for any of it. Slavery either. I am ONLY responsible for my actions. No one elses. I did help them fight fires on thier land though. That made up for any "Group Guilt" that some might try to force on me. I sleep well at night. They were really good on the fire line. Layoutshooter
 
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