Who is supposed to pay the liability and cargo insurance?

RoadHouse

Active Expediter
I see a lot of the multi-carrier companies are now requiring their drivers to either get MC Numbers, or to lease on with them exclusively. But they are still requiring their drivers to carry their own liability and cargo insurance. I don't think this is right. Isn't the carrier supposed to pay for the liability and cargo insurance if their drivers are running exclusive? I don't see how any driver can make money with the high cost of cargo insurance while earning 90 cents per mile. Why would anyone want to pay for their own cargo insurance just to run with one rinky dink carrier for cheap rates? It just doesn't make any sense to me.
 

CharlesD

Expert Expediter
Those carriers are mostly only doing brokered freight and bidding it so darn low that there's not much profit in it after paying the driver and taking out the factoring fees. I'm assuming factoring fees because most of those carriers are probably factoring as well.

It's a bad combination. A company running all or mostly cargo vans, running bottom of the barrel freight, and not making enough of a margin to pay the insurance. That's why we just decided not to take on any more cargo vans at this point. It costs darn near as much to put a van on a policy as a straight and the straights are a wee bit more profitable. Would I want to run around the country making .90 or less and paying my own insurance? No way. Wal Mart probably pays more than that.
 

RoadHouse

Active Expediter
All I know is if I'm the one paying for cargo insurance, my carrier better never ever tell me who I can or cannot run for. Not unless they pay the 400-500 dollars a month in premiums!
 

Casper0418

Rookie Expediter
Those carriers are mostly only doing brokered freight and bidding it so darn low that there's not much profit in it after paying the driver and taking out the factoring fees. I'm assuming factoring fees because most of those carriers are probably factoring as well.

It's a bad combination. A company running all or mostly cargo vans, running bottom of the barrel freight, and not making enough of a margin to pay the insurance. That's why we just decided not to take on any more cargo vans at this point. It costs darn near as much to put a van on a policy as a straight and the straights are a wee bit more profitable. Would I want to run around the country making .90 or less and paying my own insurance? No way. Wal Mart probably pays more than that.


Are you including sprinters in the same category as cargo vans in that last paragraph?
Would a sprinter/cv have to carry as much insurance as a straight truck?
And last, but not least, do carriers like Load1, FedEx and Panther pay the insurance?
 

RoadHouse

Active Expediter
Yes they do Casper. 1 Million Liability and 100k cargo is the same whether the truck is a semi, straight truck, sprinter, or cargo van. There is generally no difference in the cost of the policy. Cargo van and sprinter freight runs too cheap to be able to pay the insurance rates and turn a profit according to Charles. I tend to agree. But I don't work for a smaller company. So I really can't say for certain!
 

CharlesD

Expert Expediter
Are you including sprinters in the same category as cargo vans in that last paragraph?
Would a sprinter/cv have to carry as much insurance as a straight truck?
And last, but not least, do carriers like Load1, FedEx and Panther pay the insurance?

Our policy has a price per unit that is the same for vans and straights. The amount of coverage is the same for all units, 1 million liability and 250k for cargo. As far as I know, most companies pay the primary liability and cargo.
 

RoadHouse

Active Expediter
What I wonder is how do these smaller companies trick their drivers into paying for their own cargo and liability insurance? Are they fooling their drivers, or perhaps their drivers don't know any better? I just read an old post where one company is forcing their drivers to convert from the multi-carrier model to exclusive use, but that company is still making their drivers provide their own insurance.
 

Chris@Doms

Seasoned Expediter
Carrier Management
I work for a small carrier and the owner pays his own cargo insurance. We have our own as well with 5 million limit to cover our self.
On vans we usually charge 20% non exclusive and 15% exclusive.
Our biggest problem is keeping the factoring company rates low we must have many of our own vehicles on our policy. I think it's $25k a month per vehicle. If we take too many owner ops especially their driving money makers we can pass that limit right up very fast.
I had a sprinter do $5000 in 6 days this week. Yeah ok so I made $500ish after factoring? How can we say that's cost effective to pay his insurance too?
 
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Opel2010

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I just read an old post where one company is forcing their drivers to convert from the multi-carrier model to exclusive use, but that company is still making their drivers provide their own insurance.

Yes, some companies are doing that. I had myself that kind of problem. I told her goodbye and I switched to a larger carrier.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note III
 

guido4475

Not a Member
I work for a small carrier and the owner pays his own cargo insurance. We have our own as well with 5 million limit to cover our self.
On vans we usually charge 20% non exclusive and 15% exclusive.
Our biggest problem is keeping the factoring company rates low we must have many of our own vehicles on our policy. I think it's $25k a month per vehicle. If we take too many owner ops especially their driving money makers we can pass that limit right up very fast.
I had a sprinter do $5000 in 6 days this week. Yeah ok so I made $500ish after factoring? How can we say that's cost effective to pay his insurance too?

I think the first thing you need to do, somehow, even though it may not be easy, is to stop giving you're money to the factoring companies to begin with.Just my thoughts....3% or whatever can add up real quickly over time, just like not having to buy cigarettes.....it would amaze you how much that adds up, pack by pack, carton by carton. So glad I quit back in April.
 

guido4475

Not a Member
I see a lot of the multi-carrier companies are now requiring their drivers to either get MC Numbers, or to lease on with them exclusively. But they are still requiring their drivers to carry their own liability and cargo insurance. I don't think this is right. Isn't the carrier supposed to pay for the liability and cargo insurance if their drivers are running exclusive? I don't see how any driver can make money with the high cost of cargo insurance while earning 90 cents per mile. Why would anyone want to pay for their own cargo insurance just to run with one rinky dink carrier for cheap rates? It just doesn't make any sense to me.

My thoughts exactly. Cargo ins. is the cheaper of the two, or at least it used to be. Primary insurance is like everything wrapped into one bundle for what you need to run having you're own authority.

A company based in a suburb of Cleveland on top of the hill going down into the valley off of 480 wanted me to carry primary ins. to haul their freight at standard owner-operator rates. Local freight, mind you. I just shook their hand, told them to have a nice day, and walked out.
 

Chris@Doms

Seasoned Expediter
Carrier Management
I think the first thing you need to do, somehow, even though it may not be easy, is to stop giving you're money to the factoring companies to begin with.Just my thoughts....3% or whatever can add up real quickly over time, just like not having to buy cigarettes.....it would amaze you how much that adds up, pack by pack, carton by carton. So glad I quit back in April.

That's the goal and in time I think it's easily possible. Plus it will up the profits to our drivers and ourselves since we can comfortably bid 5% lower. But at this point in the game we need to buy more trucks with income we're making.
 

NorthernBill

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Just wondering, why would you bid 5 percent lower? Increase your net by dropping the factoring fee, I get that. Why not in joy the reward's of your success.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
That's the goal and in time I think it's easily possible. Plus it will up the profits to our drivers and ourselves since we can comfortably bid 5% lower. But at this point in the game we need to buy more trucks with income we're making.

Might want to review posts with the label "bottom feeder" in them.
 

Chris@Doms

Seasoned Expediter
Carrier Management
Just wondering, why would you bid 5 percent lower? Increase your net by dropping the factoring fee, I get that. Why not in joy the reward's of your success.

It all depends on what it is. A vehicle moving will make more then one sitting and bidding all day. We actually compete against ourselves in our office. If we have 2 dispatchers looking for 2 different vehicles in the same area, we both make a bid on the same load.
Most my owner ops have a average per mile they want. If I can lower that bid on occasions where i know it's a freight fright, then guess who "should" win. Although relationships between all can make someone pick someone else no matter what rate or distance out.
 

xiggi

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
We actually compete against ourselves in our office. If we have 2 dispatchers looking for 2 different vehicles in the same area, we both make a bid on the same load. .

My head hurts. :eek:



Sent from my Fisher Price - ABC123
 

Chris@Doms

Seasoned Expediter
Carrier Management
Might want to review posts with the label "bottom feeder" in them.

Ever been paid $850 on a basic cargo van load from Milwaukee to Toledo? Or $500 for a sprinter from Chicago to Indy?
I have...
I'm not a bottom feeder but when you're in a place like Evansville, IN where there's cv loads in and not a lot out you have to compete. That's where keeping my oos happy with their rates keeps them with me and if I have more of a margin to play with everyone's happy.
 

CharlesD

Expert Expediter
I have a few observations on your situation, and all these observations come from a been there done that perspective.

Getting off factoring should be a goal to shoot for, but it gets harder the more you grow and the more revenue you start doing. We started factoring a few years ago when I started recruiting other owner operators because I needed a way to pay them quickly. Now that we've grown, the amount of money I would need to make a clean break away from factoring is much higher and I'm looking at a bit of an uphill climb to set aside the revenue needed to get away. You need to basically get enough to pay off whatever is owed to the factoring company along with another 45 days of expenses. For us, that figure is 800k.

What do you do when you get off factoring? For us, we're not changing our pricing one bit. I want to get off factoring to increase the bottom line. If I'm not going to keep that extra 3%, what's the point? Either I add that to the bottom line, or I just keep factoring. Factoring companies really do quite a bit of your work for you when it comes to billing and collecting on those invoices. If you're going to take on that work, you might as well make that money. We paid out over $120k last year. I could put that to good use. We'll be off factoring within a year or two at the most and you can bet I'll be keeping that 3%.

Regarding the internal competition, you might want to re consider that. When you have someone ready to award you a load and you might have two different bids from your company, it makes you look somewhat unorganized, or you might be leaving some money on the table. If I have a load listed and I get two bids from two different people a the same company, I might give the load to another company that has a bid in the price range I'm looking for. If you have two vehicles in the same area, you need to figure out who's first out and submit one bid on the load for the guy who's first out. Having multiple bids go to the same broker just doesn't look good.

Also, if you're having too hard a time winning loads at a profitable rate, there are a couple things you can do. First, get a good salesman and try to get access to more freight that you don't have to bid competitively for. Even some good 3PLs that aren't on Sylectus is a good start. The freight listed there are the lowest priced loads you'll haul. Nail down a few customers, either direct shippers or some 3PLs that aren't on Sylectus. You'll see your rates improve. The other thing you can do is forget about the cargo vans and focus on recruiting straight trucks. When we finally decided to do this, there was a big learning curve at first, but it's paid off. Straights are a bit more work with having to mess with IFTA and all of the safety stuff, but it's worth it. It's easier to keep them rolling and you make a whole lot more money when they're rolling. Since it costs about the same amount of money to insure them as it does vans, it's really a no brainer.

Another thing a lot of people don't realize, is that it's not always the lowest price that gets the load. We've been brokering for a short while now and most of the loads I've brokered out have not gone to the lowest bidder. There are some people who send me some of the most ridiculously low bids you'll ever see. I'm not going to award a load to some carrier who bids .70 a mile. I want to get good service from a carrier and I figure you get what you pay for.

Anyway, these are just some things I've learned over the years, a lot from making mistakes along the way.
 
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