POLL Which Sprinter engine - 4 or 6 cylinder in your opinion.

[trobertson]

OVM...
Very smart move on your part, as always!
I hope you get another 500,000 miles on the rebuild.

Tom Robertson
A. Blair Enterprises, Inc.
Louisville, KY

 

[LDB]

If my only choice were the Sprinter I'd take the 4 cyl. engine but in today's market I'd go with a gasoline Transit. I believe the ecoboost would do a good job and I have an mpg foot so overall I should come out ahead.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

If my only choice were the Sprinter I'd take the 4 cyl. engine but in today's market I'd go with a gasoline Transit. I believe the ecoboost would do a good job and I have an mpg foot so overall I should come out ahead.

IF I were in the market that would be my choice as well....

 

[trobertson]

I have a 2014 Promaster on the road with more than 140,000 miles on it, with $0 in repairs. We also have a couple of Transits out there with considerably fewer miles, also with $0 spent on repairs. Both appear to be getting the job done! I can't at this moment remember the exact number of Transits vs Promasters I will have running within a few days but I will be keeping numbers on both types of vehicles to see which offers the best performance at the least cost. Feel free to hit me up in future months for details.

Tom Robertson
A. Blair Enterprises, Inc.
Louisville, KY

 

[Unclebob]

I have a 2014 Promaster on the road with more than 140,000 miles on it, with $0 in repairs. We also have a couple of Transits out there with considerably fewer miles, also with $0 spent on repairs. Both appear to be getting the job done! I can't at this moment remember the exact number of Transits vs Promasters I will have running within a few days but I will be keeping numbers on both types of vehicles to see which offers the best performance at the least cost. Feel free to hit me up in future months for details.

Tom Robertson
A. Blair Enterprises, Inc.
Louisville, KY

You should consider contacting one of the car or truck magazines for a write up of your results. That would be truly beneficial for the buying public.

Also thank you very much for sharing your experiences!

I traded a 2011 Sprinter for the Transit and it was the easiest decision I ever made.


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[Greenlight]

How about the durability of 4cyl little engine ? My friend's cousin put 990k ! on 2008 V6 Sprinter . Same engine , nothing touched . Well , he had a tune with EGR and DPF deleting .
Do you guys think that a little 4cyl engine will make like 500k ?
Yes , fuel economy is 18% better , but do not we need durability ?
I am surprised that no one knows that 4 cyl engine has only single timing chain . V6 has a double timing chain , just like all of MB's diesels in those good old years . I was born in Europe , and I've seen a LOT of MB diesels with over a million miles and you did not have to touch that timing chain , because it never fails .
On 4cyl engines the timing chain is also in the back , so the engine has to be taken out . How much will it cost ? All money that you can save on fuel ?
http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/engine/170639-high-mileage-problem-om651-diesel.html

There are even people , here in USA that called that shop and asked if 4cyl should be avoided if you want to put a lot of miles on your van ( yes , we want )

 

[QuickPUD]

I have a 2014 Promaster on the road with more than 140,000 miles on it, with $0 in repairs. We also have a couple of Transits out there with considerably fewer miles, also with $0 spent on repairs. Both appear to be getting the job done! I can't at this moment remember the exact number of Transits vs Promasters I will have running within a few days but I will be keeping numbers on both types of vehicles to see which offers the best performance at the least cost. Feel free to hit me up in future months for details.

Tom Robertson
A. Blair Enterprises, Inc.
Louisville, KY

Tom,

Do the ProMasters have the V6 gasoline engine or the 4-cyl diesel?
Do the Transits have the 3.7L or the 5-cyl diesel?

 

[QuickPUD]

How about the durability of 4cyl little engine ? My friend's cousin put 990k ! on 2008 V6 Sprinter . Same engine , nothing touched . Well , he had a tune with EGR and DPF deleting .
Do you guys think that a little 4cyl engine will make like 500k ?
Yes , fuel economy is 18% better , but do not we need durability ?
I am surprised that no one knows that 4 cyl engine has only single timing chain . V6 has a double timing chain , just like all of MB's diesels in those good old years . I was born in Europe , and I've seen a LOT of MB diesels with over a million miles and you did not have to touch that timing chain , because it never fails .
On 4cyl engines the timing chain is also in the back , so the engine has to be taken out . How much will it cost ? All money that you can save on fuel ?
High mileage problem with the om651 diesel - MBClub UK - Bringing together Mercedes Enthusiasts

There are even people , here in USA that called that shop and asked if 4cyl should be avoided if you want to put a lot of miles on your van ( yes , we want )

Now I know about the 4-cyl timing chain in the rear. I will leave that engine alone.

 

[scottm4211]

For all of the great engineering at their disposal, the German's do some weird things.

 

[Tom Robertson]

Tom,

Do the ProMasters have the V6 gasoline engine or the 4-cyl diesel?
Do the Transits have the 3.7L or the 5-cyl diesel?

The ProMasters and Transits are all gas engines

 

[xiggi]

Tom they both have diesel options. Oh you probably meant the ones you own, sorry

 

[QuickPUD]

The ProMasters and Transits are all gas engines

Thanks, Tom.

These days, depending on the application and use, good old gas engines have advantages.

It's hard for me to swallow spending .50 - .75 cents or more per gallon for diesel for every tankful.

 

[Ragman]

It's hard for me to swallow spending .50 - .75 cents or more per gallon for diesel for every tankful.

But won't that same gallon of diesel get you considerly farther.

 

[Turtle]

But won't that same gallon of diesel get you considerly farther.

Considerably. Anywhere from 8-44 MPG depending on vehicle and usage. A couple of years ago the University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute did a pretty exhaustive study and analysis (commissioned by Robert Bosch) where they compared the difference between gas and diesel in similar vehicles. They compared cars to cars with gas and diesel versions, and then SUVs to SUVs, light trucks to light trucks, and also medium duty trucks and vans to each other. They also broke it down in mass market (Jetta) and luxury segments (Mercedes) for cars and SUVs, and between light and heavy towing and hauling for the light and medium duty trucks and vans. The study was more about total cost of ownership over three and five year spans, so it took a lot into account, including initial and maintenance costs. They also did if for all model years from 2002 to 2012 (to analyze depreciation and other factors over time).

In every case the total fuel costs were lower in diesels, with all but a handful of passenger cars having at least double digit reductions in fuel costs, ranging from 10 to 29 percent. All of the medium duty trucks and vans showed double digit reductions with those doing light towing and hauling in the 15 percent range and those doing heavy (max capacity) towing and hauling in the 35 percent range. The total cost of ownership savings for three and five years vary from a low of $67 in three years (one of the VWs) to a high of $15,619 in five years (Mercedes Sprinter with the GL Class SUV very close to that at $14,881), but most of the savings are in the $2,000 to $6,000 range.

So, if you only look as far as the price at the pump as the only factor, the price difference between gas and diesel can be hard to swallow. It's the same as looking at the price of tires where some people will laugh at the notion of spending $800 or more on a good set of tires (that are more fuel efficient and actually pay for themselves over their lifetime) and instead spend half that on cheap tires that last half as long and cost twice their price in reduced fuel economy.

 

[Unclebob]

What were the prices for diesel and gas at that time?

If diesel prices were the same or cheaper than gas that would make a difference compared to today's price points.

Just curious.

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[Turtle]

What were the prices for diesel and gas at that time?

Don't make me look up the average prices of gasoline and diesel for every week between 2002 and 2012. The bulk of the study covers today's price points, post-2005, where diesel costs more than gas. It analyzed the total cost of ownership over 3 and 5 year periods, which is one of the reasons they went back to 3 years before diesel prices rose in 2005. If they limited the data to pre-2005 model years and fuel prices, the differences in total cost of ownership would be even greater.

One of the reasons they went back to 02 is because of depreciation and resale values of the 02, 03 and 04 vehicles after the 3 and 5 year time frames, since the cost of ownership of diesels from those years went up dramatically at trade-in time when people freaked out over the prices of diesel in 2005 and for a few years after that. The cost of ownership for those 02-05 diesels over the 3 and 5 year periods ended up being more than for gas models because of the crappy resale value of them in 05-07.

The price of diesel needs to be well over more than a dollar per gallon, consistently over a long term 3-5 years, before the total cost of ownership starts to break even between gas and diesel. If you only look at the price of fuel, and only figure it over a month or a year, then you will conclude a gasser is cheaper. But the study wasn't about the total cost of fuel, it was about the total cost of ownership.

 

[FlyingVan]

For this year, over about 60k miles my fuel cost is 8.9 cents per mile. This is on my trusty 2004 sprinter. Maintenance added 2 cents a mile more.

Anyone with a gas transit or promaster keeping records? I would be interested in your gas per mile cost for the year. I know moot keeps records, but he hasn't owned his transit that long.

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[FlyingVan]

Thanks, Tom.

These days, depending on the application and use, good old gas engines have advantages.

It's hard for me to swallow spending .50 - .75 cents or more per gallon for diesel for every tankful.

You don't have to buy diesel at a truck stop where diesel is that much more. Use Walmart, Kroger, QT, Racetrack, etc.

For example, tonight I fueled up at Walmart in Sidney, OH. Diesel was $1.899 a gallon, only 9 cents more than gas, while the whole I 75 was full of truck stops where diesel was 2.35.

Gasbuddy app is my best friend out here on the road.


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[OntarioVanMan]

then with the new diesels....one would have to add in the cost of the DEF as well.....which might add a penny...

 

[xiggi]

The def fluid itself doesn't cost close to that in a sprinter.
When I used to add def I got about 10000 miles on about 4 1/2 gallons. At the pump it's 2.79 a gal, by the box you double the price.