wheel base / frame stretch questions

[Xplorer99]

hey guys, been doing alot of reading on here... had a couple questions on setting up my new truck. i got an amazing deal on an international 4700. originally a 254wb but the last owner shortened the WB to 218 and has 18.5' of frame behind the cab. its double framed to the center of axle right now its only a cab/chassis right now. i was looking into stretching the frame out so i can add a small sleeper (36" maybe 48" at most). id like a 26ft box - which should put me just under 40ft.

anyway i was wondering what a good wheel base is for something like that. looks like most expeditors have the axle right in the middle of the box. truck is 25.5k loads will be around 10k



also looking for suggestions on frame stretching. does it HAVE to be done by a certified shop or anything? or would i be able to do the work myself and just have a weld shop do the frame welding.. someone told me it had to be done by a certified frame shop to pass inspection. been searching for shops on the internet but havent found much. im in PA. OH wouldnt be far either.


thanks for the help!!!

 

[paullud]

It absolutely, without question should be done at a shop and make sure the shop has a good reputation. There is just to much from a safety perspective, weight distribution, and alignment that can go wrong.

Sent from my ADR6400L using EO Forums mobile app

 

[Rocketman]

There are a lot of variables to be considered. You'll need someone who knows how to calculate the wheelbase for your individual truck. You'll likely need somewhere between 280" - 310". I know that's a wide range but without knowing specifics, one "guess" is as good as another.

If you know of any truck body dealers/manufacturers in your area, give them a call. If they are in the business of installing bodies, they either do stretches or know someone that does. Anyone who builds and/or sells boxes, flat beds, dump beds, wrecker bodies...anything like that. They'll have some info.

 

[Dynamite 1]

why not leave it the way it is, go with a 24' box and just extend the rear to make up for the box.

you have 18'5"- 4' for a sleeper + 4" gap for the box = 14'1" left over to the rear axle. put a 24' box on and you will have 14' in front of the axle and 10' in back of the axle. just add to the rear of the frame to make up for the box. the truck should be light enough on the front axle that this split should be ok. ofcourse that is if a 24' box will work. you will get 12 skids on a 24' box and a 26' wont get anymore.

i am taking it by your description the frame ends at the rear axle as it sets now !!

 

[Xplorer99]

why not leave it the way it is, go with a 24' box and just extend the rear to make up for the box.

you have 18'5"- 4' for a sleeper + 4" gap for the box = 14'1" left over to the rear axle. put a 24' box on and you will have 14' in front of the axle and 10' in back of the axle. just add to the rear of the frame to make up for the box. the truck should be light enough on the front axle that this split should be ok. ofcourse that is if a 24' box will work. you will get 12 skids on a 24' box and a 26' wont get anymore.

i am taking it by your description the frame ends at the rear axle as it sets now !!

right now the frame is 18.5ft. 12ft from cab to axle. 6.5ft from axle to end of frame. the DOUBLE frame ends at the axle. the 6.5ft behind the axle is single frame.. the wheel base is only 218

 

[Dynamite 1]

ok, misunderstood on the lengths. the same would now work with a 22' box but not the 24'. is there a reason you need a 24' or 26'? most of us do use the 22'.

 

[Xplorer99]

im not sure what i want to do yet, right now as it sits i could put a 18ft on it. or just lengthen the back as you said. my way of thinking is the more deck space the more cargo, which means more money. company i workd for gets material by the truck load, but sends small ammounts of junk material as well as all the pallets and such back to the supplier. the loads only weigh 8-10k. so im thinking the more box space the better... it is a 2 day trip - hence the reason for the sleeper. the truck isnt on the road yet. mabye this summer if all goes well. just looking for thoughts and opinions. the way i see it. since its down right now anyway. if i do modify the frame in anyway why not just go the whole way and stretch it all the way out.

 

[guido4475]

Please accept my apology for sounding negative here, but why not just buy a truck already set up the way you want it and need it to be, instead of going through all of that frame stretching, etc? I just wonder how much money in the end you are going to save by stretching this truck, etc, as opposed to buying one already done from the factory?

 

[Xplorer99]

Please accept my apology for sounding negative here, but why not just buy a truck already set up the way you want it and need it to be, instead of going through all of that frame stretching, etc? I just wonder how much money in the end you are going to save by stretching this truck, etc, as opposed to buying one already done from the factory?

i agree with you on that... when it comes to buying a used truck i have always read that you should try to find a reason NOT to buy it. if you cant find a reason NOT to buy it, then its the right truck for you.. i almost did not buy this truck, but after looking for a few months (and almost buying a few that needed rebuilt) i bought this b/c the only thing that was wrong with it was the frame length. i bought it as a project to begin with so i already had intentions of putting money into it. 99 IH 4700 dt466e with the 6+1 trans. 390k miles just rebuilt engine AND trans. paid $3600 bucks for it.

 

[Rocketman]

Is this a single axle or tandem?

Either way, for what your describing.... I would measure from the back of the cab to the center of the axle (or center of the tandems). That #, which appears to be 12 ft? double that, then subtract 2' gives you 22'. Put a 22' box on it and forget the sleeper. Your gonna spend waaaay too much money getting a '99 truck stretched. If you hired it done, it will cost somewhere between 2 and 3 times what you paid for the truck.

The work you are describing does not warrant a sleeper. A sleeper is the wrong way to go with this truck. You can buy ALOT of motel rooms for what you will spend stretching and adding a sleeper to this truck.

AND what happens if 3 months into all of this, the gig falls through? The truck your describing won't be worth a penny more with a sleeper and stretched frame, so your not adding value. You would lose thousands. Stretching frames and adding sleepers is not cheap.

Use what you got, with the least added expense..... or sell it and find something set up for the job. I still wouldn't be concerned about a sleeper though.

 

[Xplorer99]

ah good info. so the optimal axle placement would be just under half way (as you said 12x2 = 24 -2ft to get the 22) with a 22ft box (which is what i was orgainally thinking) id still need to lengthen the frame tho since its only 18ft now. im guessing that wouldnt cost much tho.

keep in mind that i would be doing as much work myself as possible. this is my project truck. so the sleeper i wouldnt do my self. i wouldnt have a problem moving the axle either. i was kinda planning on having the frame shop just stretch the frame. maybe even have them punch the holes for suspension mounts. im more than capable of doing the rest. not sure how much that would change the price. and being its a C/C they wouldnt need to pull the body since it doesnt have one...

all good points you guys have made tho... i am having a hard time deciding what to do..
it is a single axle. the sleeper again goes back to origional job for the truck. the trip will be over night, but wouldnt only be a couple trips a week... so if i had a sleeper our broker could keep me out and about with loads in the mean time rather than dead heading so much (which is what we do now)

thanks everyone for the info

 

[Rocketman]

Adding to the frame wouldn't cost too much...and you do need the frame to extend to the rear of whatever box you put on it. Any frame work other than that and your going to start getting in too deep in my opinion. I think that even a cheap frame stretch/axle move will cost $3k...even with you doing as much work as possible. Then your looking at $2-$3k for a decent box. Then you have whatever you spend on a sleeper. In the end, it just doesn't add up for me....on an older truck. If you were investing in a late model truck that would have some resale and possibly be worth more after the work than before...sure. On and older truck?.... not for me.

Have you considered throwing a fifth wheel on it? Add a sleeper if you like and buy a 28' pup trailer... even more space, more legal weight...you would be subject to cdl and ifta though being over 26k lbs gvwr.

 

[Xplorer99]

hmm... im starting to think against it, atleast for the moment. one last question regarding the frame... i just took some more measurements a few minutes ago.
cab to axle is 12.5 ft double frame ends 16" after the center of rear axle
axle to end of frame is 6' 9"

now when you say extend the frame (for a 22ft box) would they just weld new frame to the very end or (to me it would make more sense) to pick up where the double frame left off and keep going from there?

i know usually when a frame is stretched like with a tractor, you cut it in half and add the new frame to the middle, but with the way this truck is with the partial double frame, i was thinking that they would just extend the rear and then move the axle back. rather that "stretch" it. i would assume this would be much cheaper, add in the stock style cross members and the rails should be perfectly straight. i could even sand blast the frame before i had them do it.


sorry for the long posts and again thanks for all the input!!!

 

[Rocketman]

Just to add the box, I would just add frame to the original frame. I wouldnt worry about double frame after the axle.

Don't forget that your also going to need a set of dolly legs with this setup.

There are times in life when ya just got to realize that if you want to do a job, you need to be prepared to purchase the proper tool for the job. This truck isn't meant to be in my opinion. I would much rather spend $12k-$18k on a well maintained class 8 expediter where all I really needed to do to get it road ready is turn the key. The time you spend working on this IH getting it ready to make money, you could easily recover the price difference by running freight. Just my opinion. Either you want to be in business or ya don't.

Added: The last paragraph is a bit harsh, I know. I thought about deleting it....but I would rather you...and others...think I'm a bit harsh than to see you waste money. It is your money though. I would think on it a bit though...just my 2 pennies

 

[Xplorer99]

thanks for all the info, its been helpful. on aside note, is there any way i can find out what rear axle i have? theres no tag on it. having trouble finding part numbers for the u-joints and brake pads too.. dumb question i know lol but ive neverhad to order parts myself before haha thanks!

 

[guido4475]

thanks for all the info, its been helpful. on aside note, is there any way i can find out what rear axle i have? theres no tag on it. having trouble finding part numbers for the u-joints and brake pads too.. dumb question i know lol but ive neverhad to order parts myself before haha thanks!

Call The International dealer and give them the vin #, and they should be able to provide what they call a "Line setting ticket". basically, it is a spec sheet of the truck for assembly. It will have everything on it.

 

[zorry]

Talk to previous owner that shortened truck.
He may have changed rear axle.

 

[Rocketman]

Since I kinda beat up on ya earlier, I'll offer another idea that won't sink too much money into a project truck. You would come out with a shorter box though.

Your truck could handle a 22' box as is... so you might consider a 22' box with a divider in it, build your own sleeper in front of the divider. By doing it that way, you would avoid the expense of stretching the wheelbase. Obviously whatever size sleeper you build will take away from the 22' of cargo space.

Note: There are DOT requirements on building that divider. I would probably let a box builder install it to DOT specs.

Just an idea.

 

[Dynamite 1]

like guido said, except, the dealer should be able to give you a part # for whatever you need with just the vin #. the build sheet would be nice though.

as far as the axle ratio, just have someone pull the truck forward one revolution of the tire and count the number of revolutions the driveshaft makes. that will get you a good interpretation of what the axle ratio is.

 

[Xplorer99]

Call The International dealer and give them the vin #, and they should be able to provide what they call a "Line setting ticket". basically, it is a spec sheet of the truck for assembly. It will have everything on it.

do they charge you for the line setting ticket?

i tried e-mailing the company that owned the truck... no response... wonder if id have any luck calling them??