What rights do we have working for a owner?

silverbullitt

Expert Expediter
I have been driving for 5 years and our first 3yrs were great. Went to a new owner and what a change, they didn't care. So we quit driving to safe our marriage mostly never knew when we would get paid. Then they charged us for everything including a $1000 front brake job. Any adive, need help. We miss the road but don't want to get used again.
Merry Christmas
 

Glen Rice

Veteran Expediter
Well we learn thru our experiences, don't we? If there is a next time I would'nt go to work without a contract. You never have been charged for a brake job, and I know you know that. It is just simply normal wear and tear. I'm sorry you got burned, there are quite a few good fleet owners out there. I hope you find a great one if you continue this path in expediting. It's hard to do, but try to put it behind you and go froward, if you can. Good luck, and happy holidays!
 

RichM

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Another sad story which again proves you and the owner need to have everythinhg in writing,notarized etc.
Were you responsible for maintenance,if not I don't see how the owner could charge you for simple wear and tear.
A while back the A Team posted that when they left an owner they had the owner sign off on the condition of the truck.Smart move on their part. Good luck
 

geo

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Navy
what state are you from or what state is the owner from go to state labor broad and see what they have to say or go to legal aid and talk to them to see if there are anything else you would be able todo
also join ooida
 

raceman

Veteran Expediter
I am an owner of a couple of trucks and it just floors me when I hear drivers say the owner screwed them. I know not everyone is honest but as I look at the US today it makes me wonder what happened to morals. Is there anything that is done by the humans in the US where we remember our morals. I wonder. Well let me just say there are some very good owners out there. I have gone without income many times to be sure my drivers were paid, the trucks had fuel and they were maintained. I am beginning to think I am the fool here. I read these things and hear you guys say you went without pay for weeks, you had to fix the truck, you got fined and so on and it just makes me wonder am I the idiot here. I don't need any drivers right now and to be honest I hope I don't for a long time but you have my word and contract when you sign on with me. I guess I will get my pay in the end where it counts and I will tell you this, you can bet that the owner that screwed you will get theirs. I don't mean to go all hollyer than thou here but there is a bigger owner in this world and these folks that have lost their morals and have no guidence will be punished one way or another. Just keep your head up and know their day is coming. Some call it carma some say what goes around comes around but I will tell you, people that pull that garbage do pay sooner or later. Keep your head up and don't let one jerk spoil your desires.

RaceMan

---Why Hug a tree when you can sit on a Diesle---
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
First the disclaimer: I'm not an attorney and none of the following should be understood or construed to be legal advice. The only thing I'm licensed to do is drive a truck. I'm simply sharing my personal views and beliefs in response to the topic raised in this thread. Also note that while my wife is an attorney, I have not discussed this thread with her and she has not yet seen it. In other words, she's off the hook and I'm just a truck driver yammering on. End of disclaimer.

I've been doing a little research into the question you ask. The answer is, independent contractor drivers have very few rights with truck owners beyond those spelled out in the contract the driver and owner enter into.

Drivers are often advised to have contracts. That's common sense. The problem is, well-written driver/owner contracts are not easily found in the expediting industry.

I've thought about developing a prototype document that could be used as a starting point for drivers and fleet owners; even getting an attorney's help in doing so. But I abandoned the idea. State laws vary too much and we're in an industry that spans all states. What may work for an Ohio-based driver and a Kentucky-based fleet owner, may not work for a Michigan-based driver and Florida-based fleet owner. Federal law also enters in.

Out of curiosity, and being in the neighborhood (Kansas City), I recently dropped into OOIDA headquarters and visited with an official there.

When you read of OOIDA going after a carrier (law suit) because a carrier allegedly cheated owner/operators leased onto that carrier, OOIDA is usually acting under a particular federal statute that specifically addresses lease agreements between carriers and the owner/operators that lease on with them. That's about owner/operators, not independent contractor drivers.

When you read about a labor relations board or some such entity sanctioning a carrier because the carrier's employee drivers had a legitimate beef, labor law is in play there. That's about employee drivers, not independent contractor drivers.

Both of the above are also about carriers, not fleet owners that lease their trucks to carriers and put independent contractors in them.

From what I've learned so far, the fleet owner/independent contractor driver relationship that is common in expediting is somewhat unique in the trucking industry overall.

That takes us back to the importance of good contracts between fleet owners and independent contractor drivers. Good contracts state the expectations and rights of the contracting parties and address as many situations as can be anticipated in that relationship.

For example, a contract we once operated under did not clearly spell out the procedures for turning in the truck and inspecting it. We took care of that by having our fleet owner sign a document stating that he had the opportunity to inspect the truck and found it in satisfactory condition. But that's not something a lot of drivers would think to do and there is no assurance a different fleet owner would agree to sign such a statement.

A well written contract - in my view - would include provisions for the truck to be inspected by a neutral third party when the truck is turned in, and the third party's report would be used in determining how much of the damage deposit would be returned.

A well written contract - in my view - would also protect fleet owners if the driver abandoned the truck. If I was a fleet owner, I'd include a $10,000 penalty payable by a driver that abandoned one of my trucks. While the driver may be broke at the time, the provision would enable me to obtain a court-ordered judgement against him or her for the amount of the penalty and perhaps collect it later. That provision - I believe - would make a driver think twice before abandoning a truck. It may also scare some bad drivers away, which would be exactly what I want. It would also be an easy provision for a good driver to agree to since abandoning a truck would be something totally outside of the driver's moral norms.

I'm digressing here. The original question was about what rights do drivers have in fleet owner relationships. While the answer is very few, that does not mean that help is not available. OOIDA would be my first stop, if you are a member. There are people there that can help you assess your circumstances and plan your next move. Hiring an attorney is another choice, but perhaps costly.

I wish I had more resources to suggest. The fact is, if you don't have a good contract starting in with a fleet owner, you may well have troubles when you get out.

As I continue to learn about the expediting industry, the driver/fleet-owner horror stories continue to trouble me. So much of what we hear about seems preventable by good communications, good contracts, and well-managed expectations. Yet we continue to hear the horror stories again and again and again.

Our industry needs a better way. Too many people are getting hurt. Either drivers and fleet owners need to get better at doing business with each other, or the independent contractor driver/fleet-owner relationship has to fall by the wayside in favor of something else.

I continue to look into and think about things like professional organizations; prototype agreements; third party service entities that hold escrow money, inspect trucks, etc.; good owner/bad owner lists; good driver/bad driver lists; and more. I have no solutions to suggest at the moment, but I believe there has to be a better way for independent contractors and fleet owners to interact.

As an industry, expediting needs to elevate it's methods and adopt procedures that help bring the best out of people, not the worst.
 

raceman

Veteran Expediter
A-Team, You are exactly right. I am very lucky in that I got a lot of training while in the CORP. world and it does make a difference. Using communication skills I learned works well for me. I will also say that people need to find their morals. No matter how well a bad seed communicates he still is a bad seed. If these owners are doing what folks describe they need more than communication skills.
I do agree with you in that alot of these things may be worked out with good communication. That is very true.
IRaceMan

---Why Hug a tree when you can sit on a Diesle---
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
And raceman, you are right about morals. We could come up with the best contractual and business systems in the world, but that will do little to protect people from others that enter into contracts in bad faith or are irresponsible to their core. While a good contract will provide remedies against bad faith or irresponsible acts, its a good heart and mind that will keep such acts from happening in the first place.

I woke up this morning with two additional thoughts on my mind about these issues. The first is that the next time I'm at a truck show or industry conference of some sort, I'm going to buttonhole the trucking industry lawyers that are presenting there, and talk to them about these issues to see what they might suggest.

The other thought is to write an article or begin a thread entitled, "Questions drivers and fleet owners should ask each other." Threads are easy to start...going to do that now.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
You folks are right when it comes to having some type of agreement. I have had them in the past but as A team mentioned, neither party can really enforce much on it. Either side can hire an attorney and seek a judgement, but collecting on it would be difficult.
The other issue as mentioned is dealing with multiple states. Laws are either to broad or not the same from state to state.
I haven't yet seen a good solid answer that addresses both sides concerns. It does help if the owner and driver reside in the same state. That of course is not always possible.
Davekc
 

conwayman

Expert Expediter
This would work if the companies would go along with it.
All exchanges would be made at whatever company you drive for.
In other words say you are going to drive for someone with PantherII you would pickup the van, truck at the parking lot. There is always an owner setting in the breakroom during the week that could be the third party. The owner/driver/ and third party could all inspect the truck and all three sign the agreement. When truck is returned the same think would happen the third party does not have to be the same person during the pickup and return.
have two escrow funds one for the driver that they would get after the trucks are returned in good shape, and one for the owners if trucks are abdoned and the drivers would loss that and any income due.
The drivers escrow would be an equal to what that trucks usually gets in one week, that way the driver would still get most of what they have coming.
This is just a thought:D
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
You're right, conwayman. IF the carriers went for it, such third party services would be a big help. But no carrier in their right mind would get so involved. Talk about a minefield! Carriers have other fish to fry. Might a company specializing in third party services like you describe rise to fill the need? I don't see that happening anytime soon. The market is not large enough to sustain such a business. There aren't that many expedite fleet owners and drivers out there to sign on.
 
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