What gives?

[LDB]

The woman very clearly and unmistakably identified herself as a nurse. Her title might be resident services director but is there something that says a nurse couldn't be hired for that position? Could she not be both? Whether she is or isn't, it's still pretty disgusting to watch someone die while arguing with a 911 operator and refusing to help or to even find someone else to help. She's probably union.

 

[AMonger]

Again, as I said before, IF the was a "DNR" order on record, NO PROBLEM. If not, charges should be filed.

There's certainly such a thing as depraved indifference to human life. Now that modern CPR is done without rescue breathing, no body fluids are involved, so that eliminates that as an excuse. A passerby can say that no one has the right to obligate him, but someone in a caregiver role?

 

[jaminjim]

Still outraged?

'No CPR' policy common at independent living facilities

'No CPR' policy common at independent living facilities

Independent living sites such as the one in California where an employee said company policy prevented her from performing CPR on an elderly resident don't have to provide care, experts say.

(Photo: Gosia Wozniacka, AP)
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NASHVILLE — The "no CPR" policy that has embroiled a California independent living facility in controversy is fairly common but not always fully understood by residents, senior housing experts say.
Facilities, such as the one in Bakersfield, Calif., where an employee said company policy prevented her from performing CPR on an elderly resident who subsequently died, are not required and usually are not equipped to perform CPR or other emergency medical care, they say.
"Independent living does not provide care," said Paul Williams, senior government relations director for the Assisted Living Federation of America, whose members also operate independent centers. "It's like renting a senior apartment, with meals and social activities included. There is no care provided."
STORY: No-CPR policy takes heat after woman's death
The controversy erupted after authorities released a taped 911 call surrounding the Feb. 26 death of 87-year-old Lorraine Bayless in Glenwood Gardens, a facility owned by Brentwood, Tenn.-based Brookdale Senior Living Inc., in Bakersfield.
In the call, an unidentified employee who said she was a nurse refused to perform CPR — despite the 911 operator's pleas — on Bayless because it was against the facility's policy. The local police department is now investigating the episode, theLos Angeles Times reported.
So is Brookfield, the company said in a statement.
"Glenwood Gardens is an independent living facility, which by law is not licensed to provide medical care to any of its residents," the statement said. "We are conducting an internal review to determine all of the facts about what occurred while waiting for the paramedics, who arrived moments later. Our associate who was involved was serving in the capacity of a resident services director, not as a nurse."
Brookdale did not respond to repeated requests for further comment Tuesday. The publicly traded company, the largest owner and operator of senior living communities in the country, operates more than 645 assisted living and retirement communities with nearly 60,000 residents in 33 states, according to its website.
Bayless' family said Tuesday in a statement to The Associated Press that she had chosen to live in a facility without medical staff and wanted to pass away without life-prolonging intervention. The family said that it does not plan to sue the independent living facility.
Independent facilities essentially are senior-housing complexes in which residents pay rent in exchange for living quarters and other services, such as prepared meals and home maintenance. As such, they're not regulated by Tennessee or any other state.
"Living in an independent living facility is just like having a landlord-tenant relationship," said Jerry Blasingame, Tennessee's long-term care ombudsman. "They're not required to have any medical staff or provide any medical care."
That differs from assisted living facilities and nursing homes, which are regulated and licensed. All but nine states require those facilities to have at least one employee who is certified in first aid and CPR on duty at all times, Williams said.
The only time they can refuse to perform CPR is when the resident has a "do not resuscitate" order or other pre-existing directives against such attempts, he said.
It's a distinction that residents and their families need to understand, an AARP of Tennessee spokeswoman said.
"This heartbreaking situation in California absolutely points to the need to get as much information as possible about facilities and what their policies are," Karin Miller said.
But those policies can differ, even among the same type of facility.
Five Star Quality Care Inc. has a policy similar to Brookdale's for its more than 260 facilities nationwide, said Lisa Cooney, associate general counsel for the Newton, Mass.-based company.
"Our response to incidents and issues involving our independent residents is dictated based on the specific circumstances of each incident," she wrote in an email. "In the event of an emergency, staff immediately call 911, remain with the resident, follow all reasonable instructions, and provide whatever assistance is needed to emergency responders upon arrival at the scene."
She declined to elaborate on whether "following all reasonable instructions" includes performing CPR as directed by a 911 operator.
Elmcroft Senior Living, though, has a different policy for its 103 facilities in 19 states, including those offering independent living, said an official of the Louisville, Ky.-based company.
"In the event a resident suffers cardiac or respiratory arrest, to the extent allowed under state law, our policy is to call 911 and perform CPR unless the resident has a do-not-resuscitate order," said Bob Goyette, Elmcroft's senior operations vice president. "That is a standard practice in the assisted living industry. Performing CPR at independent facilities — it's up to the facility."



​

 

[OntarioVanMan]

The following is our medical emergency policy:

In the event of a health emergency we will take the trouble of dialing 911 and then we'll do absolutely nothing except sit and watch and wait. Don't expect us to do anything to attempt to save the life of your loved one. That is not part of our storage service for your loved one. We store them for you, we do not treat them for you.

I see nothing wrong with that policy... This is America... You get the service you pay for... The lady was NOT a patient... She had a lease and details Were probably included about policy. That is like expecting the laundromat attendant to catch the rinse cycle for you.

 

[muttly]

There's certainly such a thing as depraved indifference to human life. Now that modern CPR is done without rescue breathing, no body fluids are involved, so that eliminates that as an excuse. A passerby can say that no one has the right to obligate him, but someone in a caregiver role?

Right... Modern CPR no longer requires mouth to mouth. Wonder how much that had to do with too many people opting out of performing this life saving procedure? Chest compressions can be taught to someone in a few seconds, so there isn't any good reason other than a DNR order for someone not to help.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

It makes me wonder if "nurse" is just a moniker for "waitress" for those facilities. I believe that once people realize this is normal operating procedure at most of the independent living places, then they'll cool down, but still demand changes in the policies regarding CPR. There is no excuse; CPR is simple to learn. To stand by and watch as someone struggles to breathe is not a policy I would be happy to enforce.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

I see nothing wrong with that policy... This is America... You get the service you pay for... The lady was NOT a patient... She had a lease and details Were probably included about policy. That is like expecting the laundromat attendant to catch the rinse cycle for you.

Not hardly. In the industry we're talking about, they deal with death and dying everyday. Heart attacks are commonplace. CPR is a minor thing that anyone can do, to attempt to save a life. They should, and do, expect people to have heart attacks at their facilities, yet do nothing to try and save them.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

But Hawk it appears to be in the lease? The resident is just in a expensive hotel room with room service... Nothing can or should be expected from them ...common courtesy would be nice tho but it's not a mandate.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Iam betting most businesses with attendants have a similar policy... Just call 911... CPR if not done properly can kill someone

 

[jaminjim]

I guess some are too busy being outraged to read the article I posted.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

I guess some are too busy being outraged to read the article I posted.

I read it.... Even the woman's daughter is ok with it....the whole situation is spelled out very clearly

 

[OntarioVanMan]

I can tell ya's if you have a heart attack in front of me. You gonna die...I am not trained

 

[jaminjim]

I can tell ya's if you have a heart attack in front of me. You gonna die...I am not trained

Already had one of those, not much fun.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

I guess some are too busy being outraged to read the article I posted.

What makes you think I didn't read it?

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Already had one of those, not much fun.

same here...and the type it was, CPR might have killed me by releasing clots thru my system...

 

[jaminjim]

What makes you think I didn't read it?

Based solely on the continued responses that they should have done more. After talking with my elderly mother, her comment was along the lines of "if I saved her she would whoop my a$$."

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Based solely on the continued responses that they should have done more. After talking with my elderly mother, her comment was along the lines of "if I saved her she would whoop my a$$."

Then why hire a nurse in the firstplace? Why not hire waitresses?

 

[LDB]

I see nothing wrong with that policy... This is America... You get the service you pay for... The lady was NOT a patient... She had a lease and details Were probably included about policy. That is like expecting the laundromat attendant to catch the rinse cycle for you.

So Ken, you find the rinse cycle and human life to be equal? If your (and everyone else substituting their primary loved one whoever that may be as I'm not picking on only you) wife couldn't breathe and the group of people around her called 911 but refused to help her and she died before paramedics could arrive you would think that's acceptable?

 

[Turtle]

Family: Woman denied CPR wanted no intervention
By TRACIE CONE, Associated Press

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — Relatives of an 87-year-old woman who died after a nurse at her retirement home refused a 911 dispatcher's pleas to perform CPR expressed satisfaction with the care she received, saying her wishes were to die naturally. Meanwhile, the company that owns the facility now says its worker failed to follow proper procedures.

Lorraine Bayless' death last week at Glendale Gardens, a Bakersfield independent living facility, prompted outrage after a 7-minute recording of the 911 call was released. Brookdale Senior Living, which owns the facility, initially said its employee acted correctly by waiting until emergency personnel arrived. But late Tuesday, it issued a new statement saying the employee had misinterpreted the company's guidelines and was on voluntary leave while the case is investigated.
"This incident resulted from a complete misunderstanding of our practice with regards to emergency medical care for our residents," the Tennessee-based company said.

Shortly before Brookdale's clarification, Bayless' family sent The Associated Press a statement saying she was aware that Glenwood Gardens did not offer trained medical staff, but opted to live there anyway.

"It was our beloved mother and grandmother's wish to die naturally and without any kind of life prolonging intervention," the family said. "We understand that the 911 tape of this event has caused concern, but our family knows that mom had full knowledge of the limitations of Glenwood Gardens and is at peace."

The family said it would not sue or try to profit from the death, and called it "a lesson we can all learn from."

"We regret that this private and most personal time has been escalated by the media," the statement said.

The rest of the rest of the story here.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

So Ken, you find the rinse cycle and human life to be equal? If your (and everyone else substituting their primary loved one whoever that may be as I'm not picking on only you) wife couldn't breathe and the group of people around her called 911 but refused to help her and she died before paramedics could arrive you would think that's acceptable?

Can't answer that one....too many "what if's".....personal stuff...