What are my options?

rollincoal

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
That's what's known as "doctor shopping", and it's one of the reasons we have to use only docs on the 'approved' list. It's unethical to withhold info you know is pertinent, and it probably wouldn't help in this case anyway, as the issues are secondary to apnea, and they're still unresolved, apparently.

That is not what's known as doctor shopping. Doctor shopping is what drug addicts do to get a fix. There is no law or regulation that says yout can't get more than one DOT physical. Physicians make mistakes too. I understand sleep apnea is a real medical condition but what is going on with the medical industry and trucking right now is nothing more than a farce to pick pockets. And like I said there are people who have functioned and lived with it their entire lives. My grandfather was one of them. Any doctor or company who says I need to take a sleep study test can watch me walk right out the door and get a physical where they're not pushing unnecessary tests.
 
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Dynamite 1

Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
You are allowed to get a second opinion and if passed then you are good to go. You do have to be forthcoming about your previous physical though !!!!!!!!!
 

rollincoal

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
What does one have to be forthcoming about if they never did a sleep study? The day is coming when sleep studies will be mandatory i'M sure because just like the health insurance industry the CPAP apnea industry would like to have guaranteed customers and revenue also.
 

usafk9

Veteran Expediter
One has to be forthcoming about the "diagnosis" which you quoted in your first reply in this thread. I'm no doctor, but I'd bet that in the medical world, a diagnosis only happens when a test has been done. You go to doctor #2, I'd bet their intake questionnaire doesn't say, "Please list all of your prior doctors' hunches."
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
That is not what's known as doctor shopping. Doctor shopping is what drug addicts do to get a fix. There is no law or regulation that says yout can't get more than one DOT physical. Physicians make mistakes too. I understand sleep apnea is a real medical condition but what is going on with the medical industry and trucking right now is nothing more than a farce to pick pockets. And like I said there are people who have functioned and lived with it their entire lives. My grandfather was one of them. Any doctor or company who says I need to take a sleep study test can watch me walk right out the door and get a physical where they're not pushing unnecessary tests.

Addicts shop for a doc who will prescribe drugs. Hypochondriacs shop for a doc who will tell them they have a real medical issue [or several of them]. People with undiagnosed pain shop for a doc who can find the cause. There are various reasons for doctor shopping, other than drug seeking, but they all boil down to wanting to get something specific from the doctor.
I agree that apnea is a misunderstood and tricky problem, and that many stand to benefit from 'finding' it, but that doesn't excuse withholding pertinent issues from your doctor, in the hope that he/she will tell you what you want to hear. Better to be truthful, and say you're not convinced it's accurate - that's perfectly reasonable.
 

rollincoal

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Second opinion is not doctor shopping. We are talking about real people here (not kooks looking for a high or psychiatric cases) looking to actually work and hold down a job without it being threatened by an imaginary diagnosis of an overdiagnosed, overhyped non-issue. The fact that anyone has to worry about what they say to a doctor speaks volumes about how far we have fallen in this country, not to mention how low our particular industry is. Don't dare admit that you sometimes snore or you're going to get pegged as having sleep apnea. I guess that's just another thing we have to put up with in this new age of free stuff like healthcare.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Addicts shop for a doc who will prescribe drugs. Hypochondriacs shop for a doc who will tell them they have a real medical issue [or several of them]. People with undiagnosed pain shop for a doc who can find the cause. There are various reasons for doctor shopping, other than drug seeking, but they all boil down to wanting to get something specific from the doctor.
I agree that apnea is a misunderstood and tricky problem, and that many stand to benefit from 'finding' it, but that doesn't excuse withholding pertinent issues from your doctor, in the hope that he/she will tell you what you want to hear. Better to be truthful, and say you're not convinced it's accurate - that's perfectly reasonable.

You have to put down exactly what you did on your form from the first physical, in order for the second opinion to be accepted. If you didn't put the apnea diagnosis down on the first one, because that's when you were first diagnosed, you don't have to on the second. You don't have to tell the second doctor anything about what the first doctor said, if you're getting a second opinion.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
You have to put down exactly what you did on your form from the first physical, in order for the second opinion to be accepted. If you didn't put the apnea diagnosis down on the first one, because that's when you were first diagnosed, you don't have to on the second. You don't have to tell the second doctor anything about what the first doctor said, if you're getting a second opinion.

The dishonesty is between you & your conscience, but should you be involved in a serious accident, don't think for a minute it won't be discovered and used against you.
I would still advise telling the truth: the last doctor said he/she believes I have apnea, and I believe he/she is mistaken. Mistakes happen, even to doctors.

Note to Rollincoal: I spent years doctor shopping, looking for effective relief from horrendous monthly periods. I wasn't looking for drugs, because all I knew was they made me sick the one time I took Darvon, so if they'd been offered, I'd have said "I can't take that stuff", but all I ever got was the latest, greatest nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory wonder drug, none of which ever worked. Still, I kept trying, hoping something would help, and finally, something did: birth control pills. Which were prescribed after my first child was born, when I was 24 years old. I was flabbergasted that not one doctor ever even suggested them, in 10 years, but that's what happened. Not all doctor shopping is done by druggies and kooks - sometimes, it's people who have a real issue that the docs just blow off, for whatever reason.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Also: the issues that prohibit Yolo from getting a med card are tachycardia [fast heart rate], hypertension [high blood pressure], and asthma, not apnea. Not telling the second doc about the apnea diagnosis won't make the other issues go away, so a second opinion without an apnea diagnosis won't help - he'd still be disqualified if the issues listed are unresolved with medication.
 

Yolo

Not a Member
You hit the nail on the head Cherri, when I DID GET A SECOND OPINION the doctor stated that my lungs were "singing." Also the second doctor had no knowledge of my medical history.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
When you go get a DOT physical, you fill out the long form, checking off all the boxes indicating symptoms and diseases you have (or have had), and space is provided to detail some of them with dates, treatments received, and any current limitations.

If you check the box YES next to Shortness of Breath, Lung Disease, or especially next to Sleeping Disorders, you should expect some followup questions regarding your pulmonary health. You'll be asked if you have Excessive Daytime Sleepiness, if you're tired or sleepy during the day, if you wake up a lot during the night, if you snore. If you answer yes to any of those, the doctor can disqualify you if he feels you have a pulmonary problem that can affect you safely driving a CMV. He can also recommend that you have a sleep test if he thinks you have sleep apnea, and can disqualify you until you complete the test. This is nothing new.

What's new is the fact that the FMCSA Medical Review Board has put into the Guidelines for Examiners the bit about looking for reasons to order sleep tests, and recommending them for any and every little thing, including things that aren't even in the Regulations. Not coincidentally, the FMCSA Medical Review Board is comprised chiefly of doctors who work in the sleep disorder business, they're primary income is derived from the treatment of sleep disorders and the sale of CPAP machines. FMCSA Certified physicians get a referral fee (otherwise known as a kickback) for each sleep study they order. The new training materials for FMCSA certification is written as if the sleep apnea study is a part of the FMCSA Regulations. But it's not. It's the same as it's always been, where if you have a legitimate pulmonary problem that needs to be addressed, the doctor can order the study.

OK, here's where doctor shopping comes into play. If you checked those YES boxes and the followup questions indicate you need a sleep study, and you are disqualified because of those checked boxes and the answers to the questions, and you decide to get a second opinion, then you had better make absolutely certain that you check the same YES boxes and answer the followup questions the same way with the second doctor. The two Long Forms will be compared. If the second doctor passes you based on the same information you gave to the first doctor, you're good to go.

However, if you answer NO next to those boxes with the second doctor, and you get passed, you're probably gonna lose your CDL over it. That's doctor shopping.

It's the same with other potentially disqualifying diagnosis, like diabetes, or cardiovascular problems like angina. If you've been diagnosed with those, and you check YES to it on the long form and are disqualified, but go to a second doctor and check NO to it, you're gonna get in trouble. But if you check YES at the second doctor and get passed, that's simply a second opinion (on the same information) and there's nothing wrong with that.

A DOT Medical Examiner will not diagnose you with sleep apnea, diabetes or anything else. He'll refer you to a physician for testing and diagnosis treatment.
 

Yolo

Not a Member
You are also correct Turtle, I was diagnosed with sleep apnea before a DOT physical. My honesty with the DOT physician is when I found out I would not be approved for a MED card, turns out if I hidden my condition I would not have been granted a MED card anyway due to other health problems.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
The dishonesty is between you & your conscience, but should you be involved in a serious accident, don't think for a minute it won't be discovered and used against you.
I would still advise telling the truth: the last doctor said he/she believes I have apnea, and I believe he/she is mistaken. Mistakes happen, even to doctors.

Note to Rollincoal: I spent years doctor shopping, looking for effective relief from horrendous monthly periods. I wasn't looking for drugs, because all I knew was they made me sick the one time I took Darvon, so if they'd been offered, I'd have said "I can't take that stuff", but all I ever got was the latest, greatest nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory wonder drug, none of which ever worked. Still, I kept trying, hoping something would help, and finally, something did: birth control pills. Which were prescribed after my first child was born, when I was 24 years old. I was flabbergasted that not one doctor ever even suggested them, in 10 years, but that's what happened. Not all doctor shopping is done by druggies and kooks - sometimes, it's people who have a real issue that the docs just blow off, for whatever reason.

Have you read this article posted in the 2nd opinion thread?

When is it OK for a trucker to get a second opinion on a DOT physical?

My assumption was that the OP had a diagnosis of sleep apnea during the first visit for his medical card. If that were the case, you are allowed a 2nd opinion. But now that the OP has disclosed that the diagnosis was indeed before he went for a card, then yes, that would have to be put on the longform questionnaire.
 

tknight

Veteran Expediter
Under 26,000 Still need medical card.

when under 26k is your medical card and all its info still in the data base, as i thought it only has to do with cdl holders so that its linked to the cdl license??? because i know you no longer have to provide the info to your state, it automatic now, just wondering how far they took this.
so a sprinter driver or van driver that needs a medical for their job, is now into the rat race system as well?
 

Yolo

Not a Member
I wouldn't wanna drive a under 26k box truck or sprinter, I'd just be putting myself in a position to go belly up. I think the only ones successful driving a sprinter right now, are the folks that have been driving for years.
 

MightyMack

Active Expediter
I know a lot of couriers that are subcontracted by courier/messenger companies drive Sprinters because they can hold a couple of pallets and don't have to worry about the freight being exposed to the elements.
 
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