Went Window Shopping

OntarioVanMan · Apr 16, 2004

Just came back from the Ford dealer here. I was checking out the Unicell.
About 50G's up here in Canada depending on the toys you want, same as the Sprinter. But Sprinter has the edge.
Learned abit of news!

First and foremost I was informed Chevy is not putting a diesel
engine into any more vans!! 2004 is the last,( TEACEL you may want to confirm this one! ) supposedly deisel is only going to be available in the 14,000 GVW class and up!
Also Ford is not putting the 7.3 into their vans anymore, going with a 6.0 built jointly with International. For 2005.
Reason given for both of the above is they can't meet the new EPA requirements for 2006.
There was alot of discussion at the dealer BUT the Sprinter is looking better now.

Weave · Apr 16, 2004

Ford's new 6.0 Powerstroke is more powerful with less emissions than the old 7.3 one, which was also built by Navistar. The little GM Duramax diesels have not had the reliability reputation of the Powerstroke, and it does not surprise me GM wants to get out of the small diesel market. Dollar for dollar for a diesel van I would still pick the body on frame Powerstroke powered Ford with a Unicell over a Sprinter if I needed a van for expedite work, but that's just me

Sprinters just strike me as being too expensive for a small displacement unibody van. Just curious as to what you feel is the Sprinter's "edge?"
-Weave-

OntarioVanMan · Apr 16, 2004

Weave....
Price: Both come in here in Canada around $50,000-55,000 no advantage there.
Cargo Space: Unicell Length: 12' or 133 1/4 in and 72 in wide, inside height is 77 1/16"
Sprinter Extended is 14 1/2' in length The other dims I don't have handy,sorry. Available on thier web page.

Ford, GVW 9600 payload around 3500lbs
Sprinter, GVW 9990 payload 5000lbs

Fuel mileage: Ford around 20-22MPG....Sprinter around 24-26MPG

The Sprinter has an Aux heater that can be set at UP TO 2 hr. intervals
so you don't have to idle to keep warm..Standard equipment.

I must state here that I am no mechanical guru so your advice is much appreciated.
Heres an anamoly the dealer pointed out. Identical engines
The F250 pickup 6.0 is 325HP@3300rpm, Torque 550lbs-ft@2000rpm
The E250 van 6.0 is 235HP Torque 440lbs

So they.ve turned the E250 down to get better fuel economy

Weave · Apr 16, 2004

Is that the Dually rear wheel Sprinter you are looking at? That is the only one with the 5000lb payload capacity. The problem with the dually Sprinter is a standard sized pallet will not fit between its wheel wells. The non-dually extended Sprinter has a 3700lb capacity. Sprinter's 2.7L 5 banger engine peaks at 154 HP and torque peaks at 243 ft/lb, and shows an average MPG of 22 according to Freightliner. FYI the Sprinter engine is a car based engine out of Mercedes C and E class sedans. A truck based engine built by International just had a little more appeal to me than a Mercedes car job. (I have a bunch of brochures as I was shopping for vans at one time

) There is a lot more bang for the buck with the Ford in the powertrain department, plus the added security of knowing there is an actual frame underneath you.
From monitoring this forum I know at least the old Powerstroke was tops in reliablilty. The biggest issue with the Fords has been transmission troubles and a few issues of front end wear and wobble problems.
With the Sprinter, this forum has addressed a multitude of problems. From things as minor as EGR valve recalls to broken timing chains destroying the engine. When I was shopping I felt the Sprinter to be more of a gamble than the Ford, I was looking at the E350 compared to the Sprinter, the E350 being slightly cheaper at the time here in the states.
I don't want to persuade your decision either way, these were just the results of my shopping experience and things I have seen here on EO.
-Weave-
Forgot.. A Webasto heater can be installed on any diesel vehicle for about $1200 USD. Extended idling is not recommended for either the Powerstroke or the Sprinter diesel.

OntarioVanMan · Apr 17, 2004

Weave...Thank you for your input AND I tend to agree with you! Nothing like the tried and true. Especially I just switched a load off a Ford 1T this morning and it sounded sooooo nice. That powerstroke was just purrrring! JuJu and I are off to Little Rock, team run, will look for replys from the J down there tommorrow afternoon.

tazman · Apr 17, 2004

Hi,

As a dealer here in the US...Chevy and GMC have not put an diesels in a van since ...."well I can't remember when" ...

And you are probably referring to the famed "6.5 diesel" of the mid 90's etc..... What a disaster ??? to say the least......
Prior to my vehicle days I rep'ed for a lubricant company....had a customer that really discovered that bearing tolerances ( or lack therof) caused many engine failures in these 6.5 ers...

However I just spoke with my GM rep an here is the official GM scoop:
They will be adding the Duramax to the van lineup but not until 2006.
Waiting to see how well the 6.0 Fords unit perform and sell....

I have just driven and sold 2 E-450 6.0 Diesels w/14'Cubes...they are very powerful....in a 14,000GVW vehicle...they rock ....Ford had a lot of re-work done to make these units go in an E-series truck.....

However with respect to the E-250's look for a mid-year change to the new 4.5 V-6 Powerstroke as International and Ford team up in the Class
4 and 5 cab over units due out later this year...

HP @ 200 and torque @ 440 ft/lbs. will make this a powerful and fuel efficient unit...this will be teamed with the 5-speed auto now offered in the E-series and Super duty units.....

The Duramax engine is just as reliable as the Powerstroke, at least since it's inception...the Powerstroke has a longer history.....
Drivin the Duramax in a 3500 series GMC...I found it out-performed the F-350 by a fair amount.....

Anytime anyone wants info I can be of service.....I represent all the brands (GM - FORD - DODGE Sprinter)........

Thanks for listening....

Frank in Pa.
"The Beast in the East"

Twmaster · Apr 22, 2004

I too had looked hard at the Sprinter but decided against it in favor of the GM van with a gas motor. While I like the space and payload of a Sprinter nagging worries about the reliability of car components and unibody construction have put me off.

In a former life when I owned a towing company I had 4 differnet trucks with the T444E (Power Stroke) motor and was very happy with these trucks. I had other issues with the 2 Ford trucks and electrical problems. This is why I would not buy another Ford and have opted for a GM van this time.

I will likely be buying a new GMC this summer.

--
Mike N

OntarioVanMan · Apr 24, 2004

The long and the short of it all. After much thought and careful consideration, we've decided to put some money into our 99 Dodge for these reasons:
1: We have a couple years yet to pay and we'd never get what we need for a down payment.
2: Besides needing to good tune-up and some ball-joints the Dodge is still purring, not burning oil. And a few small fixes. About $2,000
will get us back to where it should be.
3: The old addage, if it ain't broke don't fix it!

Every man has a dream of a bigger and better toy. Mine will have to stay just a dream alittle while longer. Patience is a virtue they say.
The Dodge is running great, its affordable, it's never left us stranded and bottomline, we are making money with it! So we're staying with it and will run it till it drops.
We think we've made a good business decision based on the above.
P.S. We thank you all for your input.

Lawrence · Apr 24, 2004

OVM,

I think you made a wise, prudent decision. The smell of a new truck with a bright shiny paint job is a great temptation for the best of them.

You let dollars and sense be your guide!

Lawrence,
Expediters Online.com

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STUMPY · Apr 30, 2004

I am in the same boat as you man. Living here in canada sucks some times eh?? however I am suprized that you can even find a sprinter because they are very rare here for a couple of reasons that our southern nieghbors could not appreciate such as...

The canadian sprinters are supposed to be imported from germany (This come from a Diamler Chrysler executive I asked as he stepped out of his company sprinter). I am not sure about being able to import Freightliner sprinters to Canada ( I am checking into it now) and last but not least the dealers that do have them are not letting them go cheap (supply and demand). So basically us poor Canucks have to wait for all the good stuff again oh well.:%

Twmaster · Apr 30, 2004

Stumpy,

Did you check at your local Dodge store? They also sell Sprinters as Dodge has discontinued the B van like OVM has and replaced them with the Sprinter.

--
Mike N

OntarioVanMan · Apr 30, 2004

Stumpy..Here in Hamilton the dealer could get them at about 4-6 weeks wait time, and yes the Canadian Sprinter is imported from Germany. And they offer a stretch version that is not the dually. Its beyond me that they are messin around with Can, Amer. and Germany versions! Different versions for different countrys.

rball82 · May 28, 2004

Am doing alot of shopping for a truck that suits my needs. Was looking at the GMC 3500 cutaway 6.0, but to add the 16 foot refer box would cut too much into the gvw. Any suggestion.

davekc · May 29, 2004

I think the idea of a ford with the unicell might not be a bad idea. Sprinters seem like they have alot of capabilities but I am starting to see alot of folks questioning their longevity. I wonder what kind of service they get on these. Does Freightliner treat them as big trucks ect.

Lawrence · May 31, 2004

OVM,

I accidentally removed your last post. Please repost it. My apologies!

I actually was going to respond to your post and let you know that Unicell has notified us that they are no longer interested in configuring their units for expediting use.

Strange.

I asked them if there was a demand and he said there was - but their dealer network has no interest. So I would think twice about this as you may not get any support/service after the sale.

Lawrence,
Expediters Online.com

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