Welfare reform

[cheri1122]

Spending on war toys? You mean national defense spending which allows us to sleep peacefully at night. A national defense which spares us from fear of attack on the homeland. A national defense so strong that our enemies cannot harm us while we have the luxury of debating the opulent American welfare state. Cut welfare and pass the savings to the military in the form of a much deserved pay raise.

Sleep peacefully at night? Do those suffering from PTSD sleep peacefully at night? How about the amputees? The loved ones of those who didn't come home?
The cost is too high, period. And it didn't spare us on Sept 11. We are lucky, in a way, to have never been "occupied", but if we were, people wouldn't consider war a great endeavor, IMO. It's a stupid and barbaric [and ludicrously expensive!] way to solve problems, and should be a last resort, when ALL else fails.
There is nothing opulent about providing basic necessities of life for every citizen, [half of whom are children!] We don't need to deprive them to give a raise to those who work for their money, because there are a whole lot who don't at the other end of the income scale who 'shield' their money to keep from contributing to the country that contributed to them.

 

[cheri1122]

So basically your position is there are zero, as in one less than one, women in the entire nation who have babies to increase their benefits. Your position is that your facts, figures and knowledge are true and accurate while anyone else's facts, figures and/or direct knowledge are inaccurate and/or outright lies. You know absolutely of what you speak and anyone else doesn't know squat and is just flappin.

Wrong again.

 

[Turtle]

A single mom with 2 kids gets about $400 month food stamps, and $500/month cash for everything else [food stamps don't pay for toiletries, cleaning products, toilet paper, aspirin, etc]. Or clothes, shoes, school supplies...
Housing subsidies? There are waiting lists years long for housing benefits, if you need more than 1 bedroom, and even then, unless you're a senior citizen, forget it. No heating assistance, if you live in someone else's place. Medical? Like the "housing assistance", just try using it: there's few places that accept it, and the waiting lists are formidable. [That's why poor people use the Emergency Dept, it's all that's available when they need it]

The number vary slightly from state to state, and the numbers above are for Rhode Island, but the numbers are real, and typical. You can post all the differing numbers you like, but the numbers posted above are gonna stay real.

The numbers prove women are NOT having more kids to collect more welfare, but some people will swear they are, nonetheless.

The numbers don't prove it one way or the other. Human nature, however, says that it's very likely that some of them are. That would certainly account for the ,02 difference.

I forget which country I read about recently, that just provides a home and income to every person, and it turns out to be far less expensive than all those "programs" that work on paper, but not in reality.
The US spends the money on war toys, instead. And legislators' travel inclinations. And rewards to business for doing what they were gonna do anyway. And stadiums for rich owners & players - that, too.

No, the US doesn't spend money on way toys "instead." It buys war toys in addition to. Legislator travels business rewards, or stadiums (federal dollars aren't spent on stadiums, regardless of what you've read). Please list all the items that it's OK for the US government to spend money on. I have a feeling that it's gonna be an extremely short list.

We already spend an obscene amount of money on the entitlement programs. Obscene.
In 2014 we spent $845 billion on Social Security and $831 billion on healthcare. That's 24% each of what was spent in total so 48%. Add in $420 billion for cash welfare 12 12% and we're up to 60%. Add in the $229 billion in net interest which comes directly from entitlement spending, and we're at 66% of the budget spent on entitlements. That's two-thirds of the budget spent on entitlements, and you want more. Total Defense spending is 17% of the federal budget at $596 billion. And that's frankly a lot. Everything else, $583 billion, is also 17%.

You should become intimate with this Web site:
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/entitlement_spending

 

[cheri1122]

" In complexity, much can be hidden." That's all I have to say about tossing numbers around as if billions are a language we understand. [And as if the government can be trusted to be honest about them.]
We should understand the reason for government and taxes: people. Not profit, or commerce, or religion. People. Achieving. Potential. Learning. That's what it's all about.

 

[Turtle]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I gave the numbers for reference (specifically to head off someone asking, "What are the actual numbers?!?!), but it was the percentages I was tossing around, since they are a language we understand.

 

[golfournut]

The number vary slightly from state to state, and the numbers above are for Rhode Island, but the numbers are real, and typical. You can post all the differing numbers you like, but the numbers posted above are gonna stay real.

The numbers don't prove it one way or the other. Human nature, however, says that it's very likely that some of them are. That would certainly account for the ,02 difference.


No, the US doesn't spend money on way toys "instead." It buys war toys in addition to. Legislator travels business rewards, or stadiums (federal dollars aren't spent on stadiums, regardless of what you've read). Please list all the items that it's OK for the US government to spend money on. I have a feeling that it's gonna be an extremely short list.

We already spend an obscene amount of money on the entitlement programs. Obscene.
In 2014 we spent $845 billion on Social Security and $831 billion on healthcare. That's 24% each of what was spent in total so 48%. Add in $420 billion for cash welfare 12 12% and we're up to 60%. Add in the $229 billion in net interest which comes directly from entitlement spending, and we're at 66% of the budget spent on entitlements. That's two-thirds of the budget spent on entitlements, and you want more. Total Defense spending is 17% of the federal budget at $596 billion. And that's frankly a lot. Everything else, $583 billion, is also 17%.

You should become intimate with this Web site:
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/entitlement_spending

Social Security is NOT AN ENTITLEMENT! It is a program bought and paid for by each working American. The politicians CHOSE to raid the coffers so now they call it an entitlement like they are doing us a favor. Just give me the lump sum of the amount I put in. They can keep whatever the interest I would have earned.

 

[Turtle]

It's called an entitlement because you're entitled to it. You paid for it. That's why it's called that. The word "entitlement" has long been the standard terminology for payments made under government programs that guarantee and provide benefits to particular groups. When Social Security was created in the 1930s it was called the Social Security Federal Benefit Entitlement Program.

Medicare is the same thing, an entitlement funded by workers to be used later.

Technically, Medicaid and welfare programs are the ones that are not entitlements.

 

[LDB]

If it's wrong then let's hear you agree and say while they aren't common there are those women who have babies just to get additional money. Let's hear you say there are some people getting comparatively large amounts of money as the figures show. Let's hear you say that although you disagree with the numbers provided by the government for the amounts given they are presumably accurate since they are in fact government provided figures. So far you have only ever disagreed with known facts and government figures. Until then, your comments and position so far require a response of right, not wrong.

 

[LDB]

It's interesting all the many things people tell their doctor, especially when over time the doctor treats two and sometimes three generations of the same family. Over a career of 50 years, 49 on the same corner, a doctor may hear direct from the patients mouths, plural, they are having a baby for the extra benefits. Perhaps not every doctor on every corner but definitely one and likely many.

 

[golfournut]

It's called an entitlement because you're entitled to it. You paid for it. That's why it's called that. The word "entitlement" has long been the standard terminology for payments made under government programs that guarantee and provide benefits to particular groups. When Social Security was created in the 1930s it was called the Social Security Federal Benefit Entitlement Program.

Medicare is the same thing, an entitlement funded by workers to be used later.

Technically, Medicaid and welfare programs are the ones that are not entitlements.

Then why are you lumping ss and medicare with welfare?

If ss and medicare are entitlements, then welfare cannot be an entitlement by your explanation.

So which is what?

 

[Ragman]

Just give me the lump sum of the amount I put in. They can keep whatever the interest I would have earned.

That's not how it works. Your "contributions" were spent on the current retirees. All ways worked this way.

 

[LDB]

It's called a Ponzi scheme.

 

[Ragman]

It's called a Ponzi scheme.

A suppose it is. I never thought about it like that, but ya, it is.

 

[Turtle]

Then why are you lumping ss and medicare with welfare?

Do I look like I'm in charge of lumping? I lump them because the government does, because it's listed that way in the budget, and because, as I earlier stated, the word "entitlement" has long been the standard terminology for payments made under government programs that guarantee and provide benefits to particular groups. And by "long standing" I mean since way before I was born.

If ss and medicare are entitlements, then welfare cannot be an entitlement by your explanation.

Yeah, I know, that's why I said technically they're not entitlements.

So which is what?

It's all called entitlements, because that's how is broken down and categorized in the budget, despite the fact that it's only Social Security and Medicare that are technically entitlements.

If you have a problem with this, it ain't with me. I didn't come up with this crap.

 

[golfournut]

That's not how it works. Your "contributions" were spent on the current retirees. All ways worked this way.

No, that's not what happened. The government politicians syphoned out money to fund other programs and debt.

Debt Held by Federal Accounts

Debt Held by Federal Accounts is money the federal government borrows from itself. It results from the Treasury using surpluses from some accounts – for instance, Social Security – to buy Treasury bonds, and thus finance current government spending. Borrowed funds ultimately need to be repaid to the original account, with interest.

There in lies the problem. Not only has the original principle not been paid back, interest or arrears have not been paid either.

 

[golfournut]

Do I look like I'm in charge of lumping? I lump them because the government does, because it's listed that way in the budget, and because, as I earlier stated, the word "entitlement" has long been the standard terminology for payments made under government programs that guarantee and provide benefits to particular groups. And by "long standing" I mean since way before I was born.

Yeah, I know, that's why I said technically they're not entitlements.

It's all called entitlements, because that's how is broken down and categorized in the budget, despite the fact that it's only Social Security and Medicare that are technically entitlements.

If you have a problem with this, it ain't with me. I didn't come up with this crap.

The Social Security Act, Pub.L. 74–271, 49 Stat. 620, enacted August 14, 1935, now codified as 42 U.S.C. ch. 7, was a social welfare legislative act which created the Social Security system in the United States.

No where in the publication that Roosevelt signed in 1935 is ss described as an entitlement.
Note however it is described as a welfare legislative act.
The reason for this is because it was tied to labor and dependent children.

In the 2015 budget of the house and president, under mandatory spending, welfare and ss are NOT linked together.
Welfare is under entitlements and ss/medicare is under earned benefit along with unemployment. Unemployment is listed as an earned benefit because it is paid for by employers. Called unemployment insurance.

SS, unemployment and labor is also a part of the discretionary budget.

5% of the discretionary budget, military 55%.
50% of the mandatory budget.

A program the government receives contributions thru taxes or fees and then distributes to recipients is a earned benefit.

A program that the government totally subsidizes is an entitlement program because ALL Americans can apply for that program whereas a earned benefit program is for a specific group such as, in this case, elderly or unemployed.

So show me where the government is lumping these together or in the budget as you stated.

 

[Turtle]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entitlement

 

[golfournut]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entitlement

So wiki is your source for lumping. Not the government.
Hmmmm

 

[Turtle]

If you read the page you'll see the referenced government documents and publications. If you watch C-SPAN, or the news, you'll see Congress, the president, the CBO, the Treasury and other government entities refer to the three budgetary categories (Entitlements, Defense, Other). Go read the actual budget and look at the categories and sub categories to see how it's broken down. Go do a Google search on it.

I don't know what to tell you, man. First you're screaming that it's not an entitlement, then you're screaming that it is, now you're screaming about category lumping. Perhaps you should go to petition org and start one, let everybody know how you want them to do it.

 

[golfournut]

If you read the page you'll see the referenced government documents and publications. If you watch C-SPAN, or the news, you'll see Congress, the president, the CBO, the Treasury and other government entities refer to the three budgetary categories (Entitlements, Defense, Other). Go read the actual budget and look at the categories and sub categories to see how it's broken down. Go do a Google search on it.

I don't know what to tell you, man. First you're screaming that it's not an entitlement, then you're screaming that it is, now you're screaming about category lumping. Perhaps you should go to petition org and start one, let everybody know how you want them to do it.

I did read the ACTUAL budget of both the house and president. Not from some website reflecting their views.

I NEVER said ss is an entitlement. No where close. I am pointing out to you your errors of your posts. But of course you don't like that.

Once again, in both the discretionary and mandatory spending budgets ss is referred to as a EARNED BENEFIT!

WELFARE is listed as an ENTITLEMENT.

I can't make it any simpler for you. Perhaps you should take your own advice and go read the actual budgets and forget cspan or the news.