We need people like this here.

[layoutshooter]

You know the funny thing is when we had real tax rates (from the 30's into the 80's) we were more successful and more individually productive than we have been since Reagan. The amazing thing is, the biggest individually productive time was in the early 40's when people would work 80 hours plus and pay taxes with 20 hours worth of labor. you think about what has replaced tangible assets that the country had (like manufacturing) and then look at how we have companies that have small assets being overvalued that provide no tangibles at all and think what if we taxed them, those with the limited employment and the $500 per share stock?

Maybe we do need to see the tax rate go up, more incentive to work harder. I can say that I won't be helped by the lower of cap gains taxes for at least 5 years so I can see the need to raise them a bit ... but overall we need to fix what we have, cut spending across the board and stop fighting losing wars.

I want the income tax ELIMINATED. That would be the ONLY way that the bums, on both the very bottom and very top, of the income curve would PAY THEIR FAR SHARE.

As I told "Dingellberry" in my last email to that bum, "the pen I use to write my quarterly payments is running dry. When the day comes, and it will, that I cannot meet my bills, the first bill not to be paid will be my federal taxes."

I then 'dared' him to do something about it.

 

[greg334]

SO I take that as you don't get what I say?

OK I'm with you on don't tax my labor (income) but something has to be done, right?

Fairtax is a good thing and we can try it or we can cut back on all the spending that is done, from SS and Medicare to pensions to roads and return back to the states and people handling everything themselves. I'm all for that too.

 

[layoutshooter]

SO I take that as you don't get what I say?

OK I'm with you on don't tax my labor (income) but something has to be done, right?

Fairtax is a good thing and we can try it or we can cut back on all the spending that is done, from SS and Medicare to pensions to roads and return back to the states and people handling everything themselves. I'm all for that too.

The 'Fair Tax' sucks. It still allows for far too much control of the Feds and the IRS. NO, 'prebate' checks. Eliminate the IRS, get rid of their Remington shotguns.

Yeah, I read Paul's 'fair tax' Bull.

NOT good enough.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

You know the funny thing is when we had real tax rates (from the 30's into the 80's) we were more successful and more individually productive than we have been since Reagan. The amazing thing is, the biggest individually productive time was in the early 40's when people would work 80 hours plus and pay taxes with 20 hours worth of labor. you think about what has replaced tangible assets that the country had (like manufacturing) and then look at how we have companies that have small assets being overvalued that provide no tangibles at all and think what if we taxed them, those with the limited employment and the $500 per share stock?

Maybe we do need to see the tax rate go up, more incentive to work harder. I can say that I won't be helped by the lower of cap gains taxes for at least 5 years so I can see the need to raise them a bit ... but overall we need to fix what we have, cut spending across the board and stop fighting losing wars.

We were productive in the 30s? Hmm... thought we were in the middle of a depression.

You're forgetting what we did from the 40s thru the 80s... rebuilding a world devastated by war, and protecting everyone from the "evil empire". Damm Reagan for collapsing the Soviets! Fact is we made a lot of other countries just like us, so they started supplying to the rest of the world what we used to. We became obsolete as an industrial power. We gave that title to China. And now the student becomes the master.

 

[greg334]

The 'Fair Tax' sucks. It still allows for far too much control of the Feds and the IRS. NO, 'prebate' checks. Eliminate the IRS, get rid of their Remington shotguns.

Seriously Layout, the IRS is gone gone gone with the Fair Tax, read about it don't assume what you are hearing.

We were productive in the 30s? Hmm... thought we were in the middle of a depression.

Individually productive, not as industrial productivity, even then we were more productive than the 70's. The individual did more with less than he/she is doing now, one thing that overshadows today, more people then did what they could without the government than we could imagine. BUT even then, our tax rate was higher than now when it is adjusted and more people produced more money than now.

You're forgetting what we did from the 40s thru the 80s... rebuilding a world devastated by war, and protecting everyone from the "evil empire".

Actually when did we rebuild anything ourselves?

I don't remember reading about the boatloads of people embarking to go off to Germany or Japan but rather we gave money that we ended up making through our productivity as a nation and as individuals.

As for protecting anyone, that was something that we had to do for a while, by 1953, we were not really needed in Germany, they had a formidable force that would have been alright alone and so did France for that matter.

Don't forget that by 1954, France was rejecting our aid and even in I think '55 they wanted to replace the dollar with the Franc or something like that. We were in trouble in '55 and '56 when we had a recession of sorts and a lot of people lost their jobs and pensions due to the diverse production that companies were led to believe would continue in the 50's and didn't.

Damm Reagan for collapsing the Soviets!

All he did was out spend them, we are paying for that now if you didn't notice. There were other players involved, those who Reagan could not inspire or move to help with the downfall of the Soviets. Our mistake is the same thing that we normally do, leave it alone when we are done.

By the way, I can't understand how anyone can call Reagan a conservative when all he did was spend money.

Fact is we made a lot of other countries just like us, so they started supplying to the rest of the world what we used to. We became obsolete as an industrial power.

I don't know where we made anyone, China? Japan? Germany? Not really, because it wasn't our ability to spread our form of democracy or what ever you call it or give them ideas on how to produce, Japan and Germany were producing up to the end of the war, and Germany more specific had some of our help getting off the ground but from 1948 forward, we had nothing to do with them.

We gave that title to China. And now the student becomes the master.

Well that's partially true but see China is a different world and has a different way of looking at things, both as a country and individually, it may not be a bad idea to see what their outlook is at this point.

 

[layoutshooter]

Seriously Layout, the IRS is gone gone gone with the Fair Tax, read about it don't assume what you are hearing.



Seriously Greg, I don't have any use for the so called, Fair Tax or any politician who likes it.

I don't want the government sending out rebates, prebates or refunds. IF they are sending out prebates there will be non-taxpayers, people here who are not here under a legal status, there could be even those who get more than on check based on multiple ID's. The more the government is involved the greater the chance of fraud. EVERY government program is over run with fraud. One only has to look at the food stamp program, Medicare etc.

 

[greg334]

But see here is the problem with your point, you assume that not everyone is a tax payer, when in fact everyone is. The prebates are considered the adjustment to the poverty level to equalize the taxes and that sets everyone up on an equal footing. In other words everyone pays when you come down to it. Now if you want to use the logic that the rich create jobs by having lower taxes, then think of it this way, how would a lower income tax rate in our present system where a person making $250k on investments and pays nothing compare to them still not paying nothing on that income but now have to pay on what they buy?

See I think it can work, we already collect sales tax and if the value of the products you purchase adjusts itself, than you won't see the difference. Right now we need and should do something because the present tax system has always been an experiment that has been adjusted and messed with as a political tool. I'm also thinking that if we go to the Fair Tax, that political part is removed.

But alas, I know I won't convince you so I think that if we head into the abyss with the stoppage of government pensions and SS, you may change your mind.

 

[chefdennis]

greg wrote:

abyss with the stoppage of government pensions and SS

abyss!?!? Screw'em, let them all go, its the way it is..this is not your daddies economy any more...pensions are nothing but an investment for your furture, well some investments just don't work out..too bad , its called a risk..as for SS, ill gladly let them keep every dime they took from me and never ask them to pay it back to me, just stop taking it now...

 

[layoutshooter]

But see here is the problem with your point, you assume that not everyone is a tax payer, when in fact everyone is. The prebates are considered the adjustment to the poverty level to equalize the taxes and that sets everyone up on an equal footing. In other words everyone pays when you come down to it. Now if you want to use the logic that the rich create jobs by having lower taxes, then think of it this way, how would a lower income tax rate in our present system where a person making $250k on investments and pays nothing compare to them still not paying nothing on that income but now have to pay on what they buy?

See I think it can work, we already collect sales tax and if the value of the products you purchase adjusts itself, than you won't see the difference. Right now we need and should do something because the present tax system has always been an experiment that has been adjusted and messed with as a political tool. I'm also thinking that if we go to the Fair Tax, that political part is removed.

But alas, I know I won't convince you so I think that if we head into the abyss with the stoppage of government pensions and SS, you may change your mind.

But alas, it ain't going to matter what you or I think. The government is out of control. Ron Paul cannot change it, no one man can. The Fair tax, or any other form of better tax system stands no chance. The Congress won't change enough to make any difference. The tax system is the primary source of their power and they are NOT going to give up that power, without a fight.

We are too far down the path to turn this around. It must collapse for things to improve. It will get VERY ugly for a VERY long time before it will turn around.

 

[xiggi]

But alas, it ain't going to matter what you or I think. The government is out of control. Ron Paul cannot change it, no one man can. The Fair tax, or any other form of better tax system stands no chance. The Congress won't change enough to make any difference. The tax system is the primary source of their power and they are NOT going to give up that power, without a fight.

We are too far down the path to turn this around. It must collapse for things to improve. It will get VERY ugly for a VERY long time before it will turn around.

There is only no hope when you give up hope

Sent from my SPH-D710 using EO Forums

 

[layoutshooter]

There is only no hope when you give up hope

Sent from my SPH-D710 using EO Forums

We have "Hope and Change" now. There is no change when reality is not faced.

I can 'hope' I all want, that cannot and will not, change the Congress. There is no one to vote for and no one person in my district that could win a write in. Without a write in there will be no change in my district. I suspect that is true of the majority of districts in the country. John Dingell is going to be elected. It makes no difference who runs against him. Even IF there was a Republican running against him who COULD beat him, that person would just be part of the same bunch.

 

[cheri1122]

Civilized? Not be any standard I go by.

I call it the price I pay for living in a country with a corrupt government hell bent on enslaving the People. A corrupt government hell bent on destroying our Constitution.

The price for living in a country where large segments of the population believe that they are entitled to others wages, demand that they be cared for and often refuse to provide for themselves.

And yet they get reelected.......

 

[layoutshooter]

Civilized? Not be any standard I go by.

I call it the price I pay for living in a country with a corrupt government hell bent on enslaving the People. A corrupt government hell bent on destroying our Constitution.

The price for living in a country where large segments of the population believe that they are entitled to others wages, demand that they be cared for and often refuse to provide for themselves.

And yet they get reelected.......

And will again, come November.

 

[layoutshooter]

Civilized? Not be any standard I go by.

I call it the price I pay for living in a country with a corrupt government hell bent on enslaving the People. A corrupt government hell bent on destroying our Constitution.

The price for living in a country where large segments of the population believe that they are entitled to others wages, demand that they be cared for and often refuse to provide for themselves.

And yet they get reelected.......

And will again, come November. There is even a larger segment of the population that believe that they are entitled to a 'free ride'. They believe that they are entitled to 'the wages of others'. They are the 'takers', not the 'makers'. We are soon to reach the point where they out number those who work. VERY SOON.
Those in government encourage the people to take from others. The government preaches the 'entitlement' game.

 

[greg334]

We are too far down the path to turn this around. It must collapse for things to improve. It will get VERY ugly for a VERY long time before it will turn around.

unlike you, I have some faith that things will change for the better.

 

[layoutshooter]

unlike you, I have some faith that things will change for the better.

We already have "Hope and Change". I pray I am wrong and continue to stock up on ammo because I doubt that I am. Fish hooks and line too. The slide has been greased.

 

[AMonger]

unlike you, I have some faith that things will change for the better.

A columnist recently said, "There's a great decade ahead for America. Unfortunately, this next one isn't going to be it."

The only way things are going to change for the better is if Americans stop believing they have a right to Other People's Money, and if the gummint starts obeying Commandments 6, 7, and 9.

More than likely, it's the end of the empire. As am empire, we're tired, corrupt, and morally bankrupt.

--

You know the problem with bad cops? They make the other 5% look bad.

 

[layoutshooter]

A columnist recently said, "There's a great decade ahead for America. Unfortunately, this next one isn't going to be it."

The only way things are going to change for the better is if Americans stop believing they have a right to Other People's Money, and if the gummint starts obeying Commandments 6, 7, and 9.

More than likely, it's the end of the empire. As am empire, we're tired, corrupt, and morally bankrupt.

--

You know the problem with bad cops? They make the other 5% look bad.

We are likely going to enter the 'dark ages'. A period of no less than 20 years and up to 50 where the violent left is going to rule not only this country but most if not all of the globe. It will take a HUGE fight to dislodge them. It will take several years of horror to tick off enough people to stand up to them.