We need more gun control

[LDB]

We've had a fine example of the benefits of gun control today in Virginia. Such an irrefutable affirmation of the benefits of gun control shouldn't be ignored. We need even more of the same so we can have even greater affirmations in the future. How many times does this have to happen before people learn their "gun control" is the epitome of stupidity and always will be a failure just as it always has been until now?

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[tallcal101]

Guns Guns Guns,never enough.Dead students,never enough.Excuses and pretzel logic by NRA types:ALWAYS ENOUGH!!!!

 

[FAMILYEXPDT]

As the death toll climbs to over 30 I have to ask myself..."why do we need automatic and semi automatic weapons in this country?" I have hunted many times growing up in WI. I have never used a semi-automatic or automatic weapon. What is the purpose of these guns except for mass destruction? All of these people dead from some disgruntled person that chose to cause as much pain and chaos as he could before he left this world.



-charlotte

 

[greg334]

It absolutely amazes me that people don't realize that it is not the weapon but the person behind the weapon that matters.

I am not of the NRA mentality, but realistic in my opinion.

No one person in this day and age should just point to one factor involved with any crime and say it is the tool's fault that we had this happen.

If you all get you head out of the sand and look around to see what is really going on here;

Starting with

• The dumbing down of our children on all levels of education

• The numbing of the children through video games, music and other ‘expressions’ of art

• The victimization of everyone

• The fact that we have dismantled our mental health system

• Normalizing of criminals

What in God's name do you expect to happen?

I can not be more clear that if we are disarmed, we will be far worst than ever. Unless we stop with the crying about 'its the gun', we will have more problems.

Many people point to the fact that poverty is the root of crime but I must counter with the fact that during the worst depression our country has ever seen when true poverty was rampant throughout the country crime went down.

Also just to point out if people think that it is a good thing to take any weapon out of society, I have to tell you go to Baraawe, South Africa, Mubende, Bor and see what a disarmed populous faces. Until you understand the ramifications of disarming anyone is all about, don’t try to apply the need to fight crime with the need to disarm in order to fight crime.

Solutions, yea one is education the other is let's start thinking about punishment and mental health care on a larger level.

If you don't agree with my solutions or opinion, maybe we need to start dismantaling the insitutes of higher education to prevent anyone from getting killed there.

 

[LDB]

Why do we need vehicles capable of speeds above 60mph? It's just as crazy a question. Neither guns nor vehicles have ever killed anyone. Humans improperly using them have. There is no reason to restrict objects because some misuse them.

The far bigger issue, which I knew Cal would totally ignore, God love him, is that nobody there was equipped to stop that person far sooner than he stopped himself. Any citizen willing to pay for the same training police officers are given, and willing to pay for the annual retesting police officers are given, should be authorized to carry a firearm anywhere a police officer is authorized to carry. That is the only solution that will ever help in situations such as these and these situations will always happen no matter what foolish and unworkable gun control laws are enacted.

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[lanier1]

Very tragic.

Yes of course. Lets sit back and let the anti gun lobby circle their wagons yet again. When will people understand, exactly as Leo stated, that guns are only a tool. If not available another tool would be utilized. If you passed these laws outlawing guns you have to know that only law abiding citizens would actually turn them in. I said after Columbine how wonderful it would have been if a qualified teacher would have been able to draw a weapon from his or her ankle holster and end the tragedy much sooner. Same here. Their should be undercover trained teachers in every school.

I wonder if the Hollywood crowd allows their bodygaurds to carry weapons?

People can claim the second ammendment no longer applies but I beg to differ. I have a right to protect myself if neccessary.

 

[greg334]

"I wonder if the Hollywood crowd allows their bodygaurds to carry weapons?"

Of course they do.

The biggest gun owner in the hollywood crowd is Spielburg.

 

[Pilgrim]

Our colleges have been sitting ducks for domestic or foreign terrorism for some time now, and it's somewhat surprising that something like this hasn't happened more often. On a sprawling campus that accomodates over 25,000 students there's almost no security whatsoever except for the occasional campus cop that goes around writing parking tickets. Imagine the crowded conditions in classroom buildings, cafeterias, dorms & student unions populated with students from all over the globe that all have medium to large-sized backpacks that might contain anything.

Take it one step farther and think about the football stadium that houses major college games - 80,000+ people crammed in like sardines. Basketball arenas that hold 10-20 thousand fans. Before long all these fans might have to pass through metal detectors with their shoes off and their clothes in a plactic tray. Sound far-fetched? Twenty years ago who would have imagined doing that in an airport?

People can blame the abundance of guns in our society if they want to, but the average American might want to consider the source of the problem - the mental state of the nut case that wants to randomly kill innocent people en masse. In my opinion, these crazies have been:

1. Desensitized by endless hours of realistically graphic video games that glorify crime, gory violence and killing people. They also greatly develop the hand-eye coordination required for firearms accuracy.

2. Dumbed-down by the public education system and the mainstream media to believe that moral relativism is the standard, and that criminals are to be understood and rehabilitated. I'll bet my hat that as the story develops about this nutty dirtbag it will bring out that he was an abused child.

3. Given a sense of glorification by the mainstream media. They know that after their carcass is identified their name will be on every TV and radio news station in the civilized world and every newspaper in the country. The common theme of every story will question what could have possibly triggered this "poor misguided soul" to commit such a heinous crime.

Of course there's no way to reason in advance with a homicidal maniac. But there are usually warning signs as there were with those deranged kids that commited the Columbine killings. If there were more publicity about these symptoms perhaps we could head off some of these people before they go around the bend. In the meantime, colleges all over the country are scrambling right now to figure out better security measures.

 

[Jayman]

Greg wrote: "It absolutely amazes me that people don't realize that it is not the weapon but the person behind the weapon that matters."

LDB wrote: "Why do we need vehicles capable of speeds above 60mph? It's just as crazy a question. Neither guns nor vehicles have ever killed anyone. Humans improperly using them have. There is no reason to restrict objects because some misuse them."

How true. Our legal system has failed us for many many years. I am sure you all also agree that one deserves a fair and speedy trial. Innocent until proven guilty, etc. However, our system makes it too easy for anybody guilty of anything big or small. They either walk or get a slap on the wrist. Until our system is changed and is more active in pursuing justice...we will continue to see what we saw at Virginia Tech. When one is found guilty they should be given 1 appeal. If they lose that appeal...the punishment must be the 3 S's. Sure, swift, and severe.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Boy greg, you sure are paranoid from the big bad terrorist.
I can see the American paranoia shining thru..Guns. guns guns, You get what you reap...Bigger guns, Automatic guns.. sell em to the good guys sell em to the bad guys its your right!!!
Go ahead have your rights and shoot everyone that threatens you..after all it's your right.
You all let violent gangs thrive, drug or biker doesn't matter the cops do nothing the legal system does nothing...years of doing nothing just like the immigration problem.
So lets all go duck hunting with an Uzzi for the skill of it......now theres sportsmanship.
This surely isn't the big picture the forefathers envisioned when they wrote the bare arms part???

BTW your right..the gun doesn't have a brain..it is the person. The person pulls the trigger.

Maybe they should ban bullits? Nothing says in the constitution the right to bullits???? Only the guns.

 

[LDB]

The founders intended for citizens to have, by rights, access to the same firearms used by the military. They were to be supplemental to the military if needed. Your liberal biased hysteria has no basis in fact, other than reinforcing the clearly observed failings in the nations that do not have the rights guaranteed to us in this country. If there was any basis in fact, Switzerland would be the worst nation in the world since most all of the males are members of their militia and have fully automatic weapons issued to them and stored in their homes. The answer is a properly trained citizenry capable of protecting themselves in some manner other than huddling under desks praying the police hurry.

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[OntarioVanMan]

Leo...yes that maybe the answer But where do we start? Isn't it like closing the barn door after the fact?


"clearly observed failings in the nations that do not have the rights guaranteed to us in this country. "

and these failings would be? Talk about unfounded basis of info...

Oh wait...what am I thinking...only the American way is the right way...once the free world adopts your constitution then the world will be all ok.....

 

[LDB]

Those failings would include Britain, where now even the Bobbies are running scared because too many of the honest people have been disarmed and the criminals are the only armed society left. Australia is following suit. Canada sees similar problems. The world shows the fallacy of gun control for what it is, a scam that solves nothing other than reducing the danger faced by criminals pursuing their "career".

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[greg334]

OVM, you are something else.

I can not explain to you why a firearm is important to a free society, can I?

First I am rather concern about terrorism, which has little to do with fire arms. You missed the point that we have serious problems and taking away guns will not in any way shape or form solve any problems.

It starts with education, without an educated populous, you will have more crime.

It starts with identifying people who can cause harm to others and taking steps to help them. In order to do this properly, we must have a real comprehensive public health system, something that we lack and it has nothing to do with socializes medicine but a shift of funding from mental health to welfare.

It starts with teaching responsibility, something that we all lack in some way. It is a responsible society that punishes criminals, not coddle them. We jail border agents with heavy sentence but the guy who uses a weapon to kill someone in a hold up gets half the sentence. There is no obligation to society that is ever paid back when a crime is committed and the jails don’t need to be a place for rehabilitation but punishment.

I can go on and on but look, it is obvious that you have never been to places where there is serious oppression going on, I have. I mentioned only a few places I would recommend you take a trip to, to see it for yourself. I think anyone who goes someplace where they have taken firearms away, they will change their tune very quickly. I know of a few volunteers who were very very liberal and would never consider buying a fire arm of any sort and upon their return went out and took classes to learn how to use a firearm and then bought one. They were paranoid after seeing what happened to others in those countries they worked.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

greg...

I guess I live on the other side of the moon. I see no handguns for anyone (private citizens). Rifles are a different story when used responsibly.
Handguns are for killing period theres no room in my world for them.
Why can't a rifle satisfy our need to protect ourselves?

 

[flatbedin]

OVM,

I love that you put biker on the same list of drugs and gangs. Seeing that most of the "american motorcycles" sold today at the average cost of 17k are sold to a group that has been considered "upper-middle" class. The days of the classic motorcycle gangs are gone.. The largest motorcycle "gang" in the World today is the CMA.. Cristian Motorcycle Association... Followed closely by HOG, Harley Owners Group.. In my HOG chapter, we have doctors, lawyers, state troppers, fort wayne cops, allen county sheriffs, and the Mayor. Not to mention half of the "well known" business men from Fort Wayne.

Texas could teach a thing or two too all of us. Lets see, let everyone carry a hand gun EVERYWHERE, and watch violent crimes drop, drop, drop..

Would you think twice if you walked onto a college campus to open fire, and knew that 3 out of every 5 people were carrying a hand gun??

Guns don't kill people, PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE...

How about we Educate instead of discriminate...

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Sorry I meant the garbage bikers...hells angels, satans choice, lobos.

The biker groups you mentioned are good and also I had the priviledge to meet the Freedom riders!!!! Mostly Nam vets.

People with handguns kill people.

 

[LDB]

So you must also believe there should be a total ban on alcohol since the cans of beer and bottles of booze force themselves to people's lips and make them drunk.

By your logic no police should be allowed handguns either? That is your position isn't it?

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
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[OntarioVanMan]

No..Law enforcement would be the only ones with handguns.
The good citzentry would have thier rifles for protection of home and family.

IF people could be trained professionals and not panic Maybe, just maybe handguns would be acceptable BUT this I think is unattainable.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

It doesn't matter how much gun control there is, the criminal will always get what they need to do the crime. Just ask the ppl in London, ON.

-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!