War for oil
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tallcal101
Veteran Expediter
Somebody has really gone out on a limb here,and I think I need to call him on it?Is that OK?All this talk of socialists and rednecks and guys named hiway FRT or soemthing like that have caused me a little heartburn.
Mr.FRT,excuse me for asking,but you refer to the last voters (who saved this country by the way)as overly educated young liberals or some such thing.May I come to understand where you did your post graduate studies,or perhaps what your 4 year degree may have been in?
I would also like to point out that ALL of my friends and family,and extended friends and family,voted for change.Most of us are in our late 50's early 60's.However,the young people are the ones that are being killed and wounded,and perhaps they have a reason to speak up about this folly in Iraq as well.They are being KILLED for Bush and his stuborn ways.
Sir,please pick up a copy of "State of Denial" by Bob Woodard,it's most enlightning about our current state of affairs.It was a brillant team of idiots that got us here.Check it out,really good reading!You too Greg and Ark,it's in the library.
Mr.FRT,excuse me for asking,but you refer to the last voters (who saved this country by the way)as overly educated young liberals or some such thing.May I come to understand where you did your post graduate studies,or perhaps what your 4 year degree may have been in?
I would also like to point out that ALL of my friends and family,and extended friends and family,voted for change.Most of us are in our late 50's early 60's.However,the young people are the ones that are being killed and wounded,and perhaps they have a reason to speak up about this folly in Iraq as well.They are being KILLED for Bush and his stuborn ways.
Sir,please pick up a copy of "State of Denial" by Bob Woodard,it's most enlightning about our current state of affairs.It was a brillant team of idiots that got us here.Check it out,really good reading!You too Greg and Ark,it's in the library.
Greg said
>Yea why not, invade Canada, at least we won't have a
>language problem!
Now your yanking my chain! And BTW you'd have to learn French. Its the law!!! At least Mexican ain't required reading yet down here.
>Yea why not, invade Canada, at least we won't have a
>language problem!
Now your yanking my chain! And BTW you'd have to learn French. Its the law!!! At least Mexican ain't required reading yet down here.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
No biggie with French, mother-in-law is French-Canadian so I am already used to being swore at in French and I also had French for 5 years in grade school although I don't remember much it is easier than Spanish to me.
So let's go, Canada here we come!
OK
I got to say this.
Tallcal, there is something that I was told the other day that really points to the problems we have in Iraq, it is that the Iraqis are getting afraid that we will abandon them if someone like Hillary or Obama get into office. Their feelings are that they are hearing so much negative stuff and lies from the media and the politicians that their trust in the promises we made to them are waning. The person that was telling me this came back from Iraq Tuesday and his family is preparing to go back there to stay. He pointed out that the focus on Iraq should not be the failures but the positive things, the investments that are going on and the promise of a country that actually can stand on it’s own as it did for many years before Saddam and the US involvement. But he also sees something else that his fellow countrymen see, a division of this country that will open us up to more terror and more killings on our shores. He pointed out that the effort to protest the war should be used to protest the invasion of the US, the central/south America invasion to close the border.
As for the book, I got a copy, it is sitting on the shelf right there (pointing to it from my comfortable chair). I don’t really like Woodward but bought the book anyway. I would say there are a few other books around that would be helpful but I got to find my list to post it.
Tallcal, I also have to point out that it is the young liberals that I am afraid of. I think just because you have a degree, does not make you any smarter than the guy who is toiling away on a farm or at a common labor job. I have finished “the forgotten man†and got to tell you I am hold institutes of higher learning and many of these people with degrees more in contempt for the downfall of our society than ever before. I blame them for the messes we have had to endure and even take it to the point that many are just sheep and follow people who hate America and our way of life. When you have people hiding behind the a false vale of academic freedoms or tenure, you open the entire society up to the dregs of human kind – for example Ward Churchill.
I think, honestly that we need to do something about the shear mess with voting we have in this country; we can’t take it serious enough to institute any real positive change. From campaign financing that is going on to the elimination of the primaries to a serious change in the voting rights we have in this country – not to remove the but to open it up properly like voting for a 24 hour period and a serious process to verify a voter. All of it is needed to really get the change you are talking about. I only see the money race with the candidates, candidates who I might add are not serving their constituents and show contempt for them by doing so. I would say that these people are the problem and hold little promise for the country.
So let's go, Canada here we come!
OK
I got to say this.
Tallcal, there is something that I was told the other day that really points to the problems we have in Iraq, it is that the Iraqis are getting afraid that we will abandon them if someone like Hillary or Obama get into office. Their feelings are that they are hearing so much negative stuff and lies from the media and the politicians that their trust in the promises we made to them are waning. The person that was telling me this came back from Iraq Tuesday and his family is preparing to go back there to stay. He pointed out that the focus on Iraq should not be the failures but the positive things, the investments that are going on and the promise of a country that actually can stand on it’s own as it did for many years before Saddam and the US involvement. But he also sees something else that his fellow countrymen see, a division of this country that will open us up to more terror and more killings on our shores. He pointed out that the effort to protest the war should be used to protest the invasion of the US, the central/south America invasion to close the border.
As for the book, I got a copy, it is sitting on the shelf right there (pointing to it from my comfortable chair). I don’t really like Woodward but bought the book anyway. I would say there are a few other books around that would be helpful but I got to find my list to post it.
Tallcal, I also have to point out that it is the young liberals that I am afraid of. I think just because you have a degree, does not make you any smarter than the guy who is toiling away on a farm or at a common labor job. I have finished “the forgotten man†and got to tell you I am hold institutes of higher learning and many of these people with degrees more in contempt for the downfall of our society than ever before. I blame them for the messes we have had to endure and even take it to the point that many are just sheep and follow people who hate America and our way of life. When you have people hiding behind the a false vale of academic freedoms or tenure, you open the entire society up to the dregs of human kind – for example Ward Churchill.
I think, honestly that we need to do something about the shear mess with voting we have in this country; we can’t take it serious enough to institute any real positive change. From campaign financing that is going on to the elimination of the primaries to a serious change in the voting rights we have in this country – not to remove the but to open it up properly like voting for a 24 hour period and a serious process to verify a voter. All of it is needed to really get the change you are talking about. I only see the money race with the candidates, candidates who I might add are not serving their constituents and show contempt for them by doing so. I would say that these people are the problem and hold little promise for the country.
tallcal101
Veteran Expediter
Well your darn right,the Iraqi's are gosh darn scared about losing U.S. investment in their country.To that point,some in Congress are asking about the "lost billions"at the same time.Fat cat Iraqi's who are continuing to live like Kings in Europe will REALLY miss the good old days of the war.Can't you just hear them"We never had it so good!!!And we kept telling them that life under Saddam was sooooooooo bad LOL.We had air conditioning and American candy bars,life was good!!!!Saddam was an idiot who should have been taken out in '91,so it's all their fault".Lets go to lunch in you Bently today.
Greg,you really must read Woodwards book.This Iraq s*** was all worked out before W even became President!!It's in there Greg,it's all there.Regarding Woodward,I know,we would all have been better off if only Nixon could have lied his way out of those young over educated liberal boys and their talking typewriters.Nothing changes but the lies get bigger and the truths get microscopic and the further we move away from being the Nation of the free.I mean it,these guys are just short of turning this nation into a dictatorship.WE now authorize torture at the highest levels.If we can't beat them lets just go back to the middle ages and pretend this is Bush Kingdom.See ya' Alberto,and by the way,how about telling the truth the next time you get elected as dog catcher.The dogs would appreciate it.
I was on the fence with Hillary for a while,but no longer.I just don't trust the GOP to do anything right for a while.Fred Thompson needs to go back to bed and wake up refreashed.I was let down by his inability to portray himself as a new canidate with new ideas,or even appear Presidential.Loved him when he nailed Nixon and the last group of Nation spoilers and liers,he was a shining Beacon,and a Republican too boot.
What with Larry Craig not being able to determine if he's Gay or not(if theres a question about it he probably is)and continued talk of taking Iran to war,the GOP is kind of like a lead ballon with a small leak at this time.
Yes,I wish the old wise man of Woody Creek was around to put in his 2 cents right now,he would be taking a big ZERO prisoners,on both sides.
I'm trying to remain open,but sanity must prevail to save the Nation.
Greg,you really must read Woodwards book.This Iraq s*** was all worked out before W even became President!!It's in there Greg,it's all there.Regarding Woodward,I know,we would all have been better off if only Nixon could have lied his way out of those young over educated liberal boys and their talking typewriters.Nothing changes but the lies get bigger and the truths get microscopic and the further we move away from being the Nation of the free.I mean it,these guys are just short of turning this nation into a dictatorship.WE now authorize torture at the highest levels.If we can't beat them lets just go back to the middle ages and pretend this is Bush Kingdom.See ya' Alberto,and by the way,how about telling the truth the next time you get elected as dog catcher.The dogs would appreciate it.
I was on the fence with Hillary for a while,but no longer.I just don't trust the GOP to do anything right for a while.Fred Thompson needs to go back to bed and wake up refreashed.I was let down by his inability to portray himself as a new canidate with new ideas,or even appear Presidential.Loved him when he nailed Nixon and the last group of Nation spoilers and liers,he was a shining Beacon,and a Republican too boot.
What with Larry Craig not being able to determine if he's Gay or not(if theres a question about it he probably is)and continued talk of taking Iran to war,the GOP is kind of like a lead ballon with a small leak at this time.
Yes,I wish the old wise man of Woody Creek was around to put in his 2 cents right now,he would be taking a big ZERO prisoners,on both sides.
I'm trying to remain open,but sanity must prevail to save the Nation.
It seems to me, the question of whether 'war for oil' is justifiable is not the issue here. The issue is that war for oil is not what Congress & the American people were told we were signing up for. We thought we were going to put some WMDs out of commission, which would have been acceptable, even if it did sidetrack us from the search for Osama bin Laden, (which we thought was our primary objective, after 9-11), except there weren't any to be found - surprise! So then, our objective was to put Saddam Hussein out of business, and create a democracy in Iraq. Again, this would have been acceptable, had we not so many other crises to deal with: Osama was (& still is) hidden somewhere, plotting against us, and our own borders are unprotected, allowing so many illegals entry, we can't afford to send them back, and are being told that we must allow them to become citizens!
Our financial status is deplorable, with never enough money to keep up with our own needs, such as: roads & bridges, education, health care for the truly needy, sufficient oversight of food & drugs to prevent the recalls of food & drugs that have become a regular occurrence, (always & only after people are sickened, or dead). The Federal government keeps giving less to the states, who compensate by raising current 'fees' and instituting new ones, and the only people who can afford to run for election are the wealthy, who still need to raise millions for their campaigns. Raising that kind of money puts them in debt to those who can afford to donate big money: corporations, most often banded together into "Trade associations". Now, they have the clout to shape the laws to their benefit, and the 'working class' can ##### well live with it.
Corporations have become greedy to the point where they will ship jobs overseas, or south, or anywhere that permits them to improve the profits, even when they were profitable to begin with. Plenty of them use so many tax evasion loopholes, that they don't pay taxes at all, and many are subsidized with tax "incentives". (A company only has to say the magic word "jobs" to be handed the keys to the city/state treasury, but does anyone ever follow up, to see exactly how many, and what kind of jobs result? If so, I've never heard of it)
The one thing that every American requires, for the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness, is gainful employment - without that, we cannot feel like productive citizens. As Maslow demonstrated, one cannot be concerned with luxuries, when essentials such as food
housing, transportation, and medical care take all our resources. In today's job environment, there are way too many working people in that situation: they have a job, but it doesn't pay enough to cover the necessities, much less saving for the future, or home ownership, or college for their kids, or even proper medical & dental care. (So much for The American Dream, eh?)
Considering the "State of the Union" since Bush took office, I don't think that deposing Saddam Hussein should have been very high on the priority list, and if the President thought so, why did he tell us, and Congress, that we were going to look for WMDs? Why are we so eager to 'help' other countries, when we haven't got the money to take care of our own, first?
How can we even think of being "Master of the Universe" when our own affairs are such a mess?
Our financial status is deplorable, with never enough money to keep up with our own needs, such as: roads & bridges, education, health care for the truly needy, sufficient oversight of food & drugs to prevent the recalls of food & drugs that have become a regular occurrence, (always & only after people are sickened, or dead). The Federal government keeps giving less to the states, who compensate by raising current 'fees' and instituting new ones, and the only people who can afford to run for election are the wealthy, who still need to raise millions for their campaigns. Raising that kind of money puts them in debt to those who can afford to donate big money: corporations, most often banded together into "Trade associations". Now, they have the clout to shape the laws to their benefit, and the 'working class' can ##### well live with it.
Corporations have become greedy to the point where they will ship jobs overseas, or south, or anywhere that permits them to improve the profits, even when they were profitable to begin with. Plenty of them use so many tax evasion loopholes, that they don't pay taxes at all, and many are subsidized with tax "incentives". (A company only has to say the magic word "jobs" to be handed the keys to the city/state treasury, but does anyone ever follow up, to see exactly how many, and what kind of jobs result? If so, I've never heard of it)
The one thing that every American requires, for the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness, is gainful employment - without that, we cannot feel like productive citizens. As Maslow demonstrated, one cannot be concerned with luxuries, when essentials such as food
housing, transportation, and medical care take all our resources. In today's job environment, there are way too many working people in that situation: they have a job, but it doesn't pay enough to cover the necessities, much less saving for the future, or home ownership, or college for their kids, or even proper medical & dental care. (So much for The American Dream, eh?)
Considering the "State of the Union" since Bush took office, I don't think that deposing Saddam Hussein should have been very high on the priority list, and if the President thought so, why did he tell us, and Congress, that we were going to look for WMDs? Why are we so eager to 'help' other countries, when we haven't got the money to take care of our own, first?
How can we even think of being "Master of the Universe" when our own affairs are such a mess?
greg334
Veteran Expediter
“Well your darn right,the Iraqi's are gosh darn scared about losing U.S. investment in their country.To that point,some in Congress are asking about the "lost billions"at the same time.Fat cat Iraqi's who are continuing to live like Kings in Europe will REALLY miss the good old days of the war.Can't you just hear them"We never had it so good!!!And we kept telling them that life under Saddam was sooooooooo bad LOL.We had air conditioning and American candy bars,life was good!!!!Saddam was an idiot who should have been taken out in '91,so it's all their fault".Lets go to lunch in you Bently today.â€
I understand where you are coming from, there is a lot to be said about what you said but I find the same arguments about waste and such used at the end of WW2 and even in the 60’s with pre-war Vietnam, we were supporting the rich people and ignore the needs of the country.
“Greg,you really must read Woodwards book.This Iraq s*** was all worked out before W even became President!!It's in there Greg,it's all there.Regarding Woodward,I know,we would all have been better off if only Nixon could have lied his way out of those young over educated liberal boys and their talking typewriters.Nothing changes but the lies get bigger and the truths get microscopic and the further we move away from being the Nation of the free.I mean it,these guys are just short of turning this nation into a dictatorship.WE now authorize torture at the highest levels.If we can't beat them lets just go back to the middle ages and pretend this is Bush Kingdom.See ya' Alberto,and by the way,how about telling the truth the next time you get elected as dog catcher.The dogs would appreciate it.â€
The problem I have with Woodward is the Mark Felt issue, this was treason and nothing short of it and they guy should hang for it. But I will read the book when I get back out on the road. The problem with things like torture and such is every president condoned it and every future president will continue it, it is needed to ensure the safety of the country, anything short of a real look at it and who is subject to it only short changes the country.
As for Bush, I said this before, I am upset with him and the GOP has been losing my confidence to the point that I will not vote for who ever is up there as a candidate. Not to say that the dems are any better, they are not but more equal.
“I was on the fence with Hillary for a while,but no longer.I just don't trust the GOP to do anything right for a while.Fred Thompson needs to go back to bed and wake up refreashed.I was let down by his inability to portray himself as a new canidate with new ideas,or even appear Presidential.Loved him when he nailed Nixon and the last group of Nation spoilers and liers,he was a shining Beacon,and a Republican too boot.
What with Larry Craig not being able to determine if he's Gay or not(if theres a question about it he probably is)and continued talk of taking Iran to war,the GOP is kind of like a lead ballon with a small leak at this time.â€
Thompson is a disappointment and I agree with you on this. On the Larry Craig issue, gay stuff aside, he is an embarrassment and a perfect example of a real need to purge both parties of the elitist. I love the response; the senate does not even consider bringing him up on charges but rather the air port is lowering the partitions to prevent it from happening again.
I don’t think Hillary or Obama would be the right choice for the country, both I think would damage the US by the tax increases we can’t afford and the increase in some areas that we should cut back on. But again the next president will not pull us out of Iraq because they know who that will give the real power to – Iran – and believe me the Iraqis all know that if this happens, there will be killing the make Stalin and Hitler look like two Sunday school children.
I understand where you are coming from, there is a lot to be said about what you said but I find the same arguments about waste and such used at the end of WW2 and even in the 60’s with pre-war Vietnam, we were supporting the rich people and ignore the needs of the country.
“Greg,you really must read Woodwards book.This Iraq s*** was all worked out before W even became President!!It's in there Greg,it's all there.Regarding Woodward,I know,we would all have been better off if only Nixon could have lied his way out of those young over educated liberal boys and their talking typewriters.Nothing changes but the lies get bigger and the truths get microscopic and the further we move away from being the Nation of the free.I mean it,these guys are just short of turning this nation into a dictatorship.WE now authorize torture at the highest levels.If we can't beat them lets just go back to the middle ages and pretend this is Bush Kingdom.See ya' Alberto,and by the way,how about telling the truth the next time you get elected as dog catcher.The dogs would appreciate it.â€
The problem I have with Woodward is the Mark Felt issue, this was treason and nothing short of it and they guy should hang for it. But I will read the book when I get back out on the road. The problem with things like torture and such is every president condoned it and every future president will continue it, it is needed to ensure the safety of the country, anything short of a real look at it and who is subject to it only short changes the country.
As for Bush, I said this before, I am upset with him and the GOP has been losing my confidence to the point that I will not vote for who ever is up there as a candidate. Not to say that the dems are any better, they are not but more equal.
“I was on the fence with Hillary for a while,but no longer.I just don't trust the GOP to do anything right for a while.Fred Thompson needs to go back to bed and wake up refreashed.I was let down by his inability to portray himself as a new canidate with new ideas,or even appear Presidential.Loved him when he nailed Nixon and the last group of Nation spoilers and liers,he was a shining Beacon,and a Republican too boot.
What with Larry Craig not being able to determine if he's Gay or not(if theres a question about it he probably is)and continued talk of taking Iran to war,the GOP is kind of like a lead ballon with a small leak at this time.â€
Thompson is a disappointment and I agree with you on this. On the Larry Craig issue, gay stuff aside, he is an embarrassment and a perfect example of a real need to purge both parties of the elitist. I love the response; the senate does not even consider bringing him up on charges but rather the air port is lowering the partitions to prevent it from happening again.
I don’t think Hillary or Obama would be the right choice for the country, both I think would damage the US by the tax increases we can’t afford and the increase in some areas that we should cut back on. But again the next president will not pull us out of Iraq because they know who that will give the real power to – Iran – and believe me the Iraqis all know that if this happens, there will be killing the make Stalin and Hitler look like two Sunday school children.
Broompilot
Veteran Expediter
I get a kick out of reading ALL THIS ARGUING....
Here is the simple truth besides YOU ARE ALL CORRECT on your posts.
SOLUTION not be dependant on OIL. How? The Tech is already at our finger tips, so why are we not using it????
BIG OIL? PRESIDENT IN OFFICE? $$$$ TO MADE FROM THOSE BARRELLS of OIL?
Wish we would or could demand a different source of Energy, the Tech is there seems to me LAZYNESS is to blame for very few making so much $.
I for one would love to drive an ELECTRIC AUTO. I have invested thousands in anti ideling device for my big truck. Check my tire pressure, drive with a light foot, drive a personal vehicle that gets 30mpg. Its still not enough I WANT ANOTHER SOURCE OF ENERGY.
Here is the simple truth besides YOU ARE ALL CORRECT on your posts.
SOLUTION not be dependant on OIL. How? The Tech is already at our finger tips, so why are we not using it????
BIG OIL? PRESIDENT IN OFFICE? $$$$ TO MADE FROM THOSE BARRELLS of OIL?
Wish we would or could demand a different source of Energy, the Tech is there seems to me LAZYNESS is to blame for very few making so much $.
I for one would love to drive an ELECTRIC AUTO. I have invested thousands in anti ideling device for my big truck. Check my tire pressure, drive with a light foot, drive a personal vehicle that gets 30mpg. Its still not enough I WANT ANOTHER SOURCE OF ENERGY.
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
Electric? Where've you been? The technology is there for water to be used for fuel. They're just going to milk this oil thing out for as long as they can. With water run cars and factories, they don't have as much power over us. Go figure! 
-True independence can only be gained if you're trully independant.
-True independence can only be gained if you're trully independant.